Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXV

[2ez2dv8]

Both guys had liabilities as players. Neither are elite athletes, but, particularly with Randolph, the defense was better with them on the field.

That's the problem with D4H - he thinks a guy has to be a future pro bowler to contribute.

In the true sense of the word neither were liabilities. Were there breakdowns? Sure, but even those considered elite and the best at their position are at one time or another guilty of this as well. When I think of defensive liability Jumper comes to mind

Further, I think it's fair to say the development of both has been hindered by the HC and DC turnstile

 

[2ez2dv8]

I can agree with this and I appreciate what those gentleman did for us. They however were not effective against teams with good QB's or stopping an elite RB.

Elite RB? Like a Chubb, Davis, Gurley, Henry, Perine, or Yeldon? What team(s) stopped any of these players? Both Mc & Randolph were effective run stoppers, imo

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

Elite RB? Like a Chubb, Davis, Gurley, Henry, Perine, or Yeldon? What team(s) stopped any of these players? Both Mc & Randolph were effective run stoppers, imo

If an SEC back is getting to the second level of the defense untouched, he's gonna win a fair share of those 1 on 1 match ups. If the rest of the defense is doing their job, there aren't gonna be a whole lot of situations where it's the safety's job alone to take down a RB in the open field.

 

[2ez2dv8]

If an SEC back is getting to the second level of the defense untouched, he's gonna win a fair share of those 1 on 1 match ups. If the rest of the defense is doing their job, there aren't gonna be a whole lot of situations where it's the safety's job alone to take down a RB in the open field.

Both have been solid in run support. Off the top of my head I cannot come up with one time either Mc or Randolph got trucked by a RB

 

[InVOLuntary]

KPD: 3-month investigation led to no charges against former UT player


I'm sure this will be scrolling across the bottom of the ESPN ticker.

 

[drvenner]

That was a bigger choke job. Unbelievable.

They lost their minds in that last 44 seconds. Throw it deep at least once to use some clock or make them foul.

 

[Brillovol]

They lost their minds in that last 44 seconds. Throw it deep at least once to use some clock or make them foul.

All they had to do was throw it deep on the last one with just a few seconds left. The same as saying a pick's as good as a punt here.

 

[Chuckie]

All they had to do was throw it deep on the last one with just a few seconds left. The same as saying a pick's as good as a punt here.

QFT. I feel so bad for Washpun...that young man is going to replay that play in his mind for a looooooong time. Clock would have expired with the ball in the air (or dang close to it) if he had just heaved it when he tried to throw it off the A&M player.

 

[Chuckie]

Cheek addresses lawsuit

https://twitter.com/John_BriceVQ/status/711944473496961024

 

[Catbone]

Hilarious that he equates the greatest comeback in the history of the college basketball tournament to two games that don't rank in the top 100 of college football history.

Just finding more reasons to trash the Vols. Those two losses are probably not even in the top 10 of college football comebacks from last year alone. Our Georgia comeback was bigger. Oh, and spare us the "ignore me then" statement and the "I'm so negative schtick."

Nope. When you are a Tennessee fan, the vols choking in football is worse than northern iowa choking in basketball. To an outsider sure I'd agree though.

 

[Skullbone]

KPD: 3-month investigation led to no charges against former UT player


I'm sure this will be scrolling across the bottom of the ESPN ticker.

Which one was this? VP?

 

[butchna]

Which one was this? VP?

No...unnamed graduate transfer.

 

[VolGee4]

Both have been solid in run support. Off the top of my head I cannot come up with one time either Mc or Randolph got trucked by a RB

Never got trucked, but they did take some bad angles.

I appreciate Randolph and McNeil for everything they had to go through. They stuck it out during a tough time in our history, and both endured significant injuries. They were experienced enough to help the defense the last couple of years, and they helped bring the program back to some prominence.

That said, I don't believe they are irreplaceable. We have good/great players who will be given a chance to shine. Plus, our front seven is much better now and will take some pressure off the backend.

 

[butchna]

Never got trucked, but they did take some bad angles.

I appreciate Randolph and McNeil for everything they had to go through. They stuck it out during a tough time in our history, and both endured significant injuries. They were experienced enough to help the defense the last couple of years, and they helped bring the program back to some prominence.

That said, I don't believe they are irreplaceable. We have good/great players who will be given a chance to shine.

I don't think "irreplaceable" was the bone of contention. Intimating that they were spares and were starting anyway got the discussion rolling.

 

[2ez2dv8]

Never got trucked, but they did take some bad angles.

I appreciate Randolph and McNeil for everything they had to go through. They stuck it out during a tough time in our history, and both endured significant injuries. They were experienced enough to help the defense the last couple of years, and they helped bring the program back to some prominence.

That said, I don't believe they are irreplaceable. We have good/great players who will be given a chance to shine. Plus, our front seven is much better now and will take some pressure off the backend.

Don’t disagree but what D player has not done the same at some point?

No one, that I am aware of said that Mc & Randolph are / were irreplaceable. And yes, I think most if not everyone agrees there’s more and better talent in secondary

 

[VolGee4]

Don’t disagree but what D player has not done the same at some point?

No one, that I am aware of said that Mc & Randolph are / were irreplaceable. And yes, I think most if not everyone agrees there’s more and better talent in secondary

Sorry, I kind of halfway read some of the things that have been posted. That's what I get.

I always thought that both were slow for the back end of an SEC defense. But, they were the best we had for a while. When you are a step slower, you can't afford to take bad angles.

 

[2ez2dv8]

Sorry, I kind of halfway read some of the things that have been posted. That's what I get.

I always thought that both were slow for the back end of an SEC defense. But, they were the best we had for a while. When you are a step slower, you can't afford to take bad angles.

Slow? I'd say average to slightly above avg if comparing against all SEC safety duo's

I think too many discount Mc & Randolph's contribution and value. Something else to keep in mind 247 had both heir apparent Berry (89.93) & TK jr (96.86) rated higher (and Berry obviously has the best wheels of the four) to that of Mc (95.54) & Randolph (85.90) yet neither could supplant the two

 

[VolGee4]

Slow? I'd say average to slightly above avg if comparing against all SEC safety duo's

I think too many discount Mc & Randolph's contribution and value. Something else to keep in mind 247 had both heir apparent Berry (89.93) & TK jr (96.86) rated higher (and Berry obviously has the best wheels of the four) to that of Mc (95.54) & Randolph (85.90) yet neither could supplant the two

I am not discounting their contributions as I stated previously. But, I think they were playing because of experience and making the correct reads. I am just not sure that they were "above average" in speed compared to other SEC safeties. McNeil could have a been a hybrid LB. Even if you are fast (like Berry), reading the play is just as important because a wrong read can slow you down.

I think we now have some guys who have the experience to read the play along with the speed to make the play. JMO.

 

[VAVolsFan2009]

"Replacing Brian Randolph is huge. It is really tough replacing his knowledge of the defense, his ability to read offenses, his 4 years of experience, and most importantly his play calling and leadership. I'm really excited about this year's DB talent. It's the best we have had in over a decade. Just don't be surprised or disappointed if there are some learning curve issues." I posted this about 10 days ago and most didn't agree.

I still believe Randolph's experience and leadership will be missed. Our DBs have a ton of talent, but the safety positions are about so much more that talent. Good thing is they have gotten significant snaps leading up to this season.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Huge weaknesses is still an overstatement. Others here have pointed it out, but the mistake you're making is assuming that a player who doesn't look like a first round pick or an All American is garbage and a huge liability.

Yeah, McNeil and Randolph missed some plays because they're not elite athletes. Sutton, Martin, Foreman, Moseley, and pretty much everyone who played in our secondary in 2015 also missed some plays. Lots of guys miss on plays sometimes. It doesn't automatically make them a garbage player or a "huge weakness." If someone used your exact logic, applied it to Dobbs and throws he missed in 2015, and called him a huge weakness and "garbage," then you'd flip your wig.

I guess what I'm really disagreeing with is your diction. I think it would be fair to say neither of them was a strength. Huge weakness is an overstatement. Our safeties were a huge weakness in 2012. Justin Coleman was a huge weakness playing outside in 2013. Neither Randolph nor McNeil were on that level in 2015.

They are if you're trying to win championships.

I think some of y'all have grown so accustomed to losing you don't understand what a national title contending roster is supposed to look like.

Look at the rosters of the teams who won the last 3 national titles. Alabama, Ohio State, and Florida State did not have many starters on their teams NOT get invited to the combine.

I'm not saying we need first rounders at every position. However, we do need legit NFL prospects at every position if we wanna win national titles.

Randolph and McNeil were not NFL prospects. Thus, they were liabilities compared to what you need if you want to win national titles.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Slow? I'd say average to slightly above avg if comparing against all SEC safety duo's

I think too many discount Mc & Randolph's contribution and value. Something else to keep in mind 247 had both heir apparent Berry (89.93) & TK jr (96.86) rated higher (and Berry obviously has the best wheels of the four) to that of Mc (95.54) & Randolph (85.90) yet neither could supplant the two

As long as Butch Jones is the coach this means nothing. Jones is a conservative coach not only in play-calling but also in personnel decisions.

He'll start the senior even if the underclassmen is more talented. He's more afraid of guys making the wrong calls than if they can make the right play once the bullets are flying.

It took injuries for Chance Hall and Jack Jones to get in the lineup. And we saw the offensive line improve once the young guys got in. Same thing with playing Jumper ahead of Kirkland.

Butch Jones has made bone head decision after bone head decision on who to play.

 

[Brillovol]

^

 

[VolNRaleighNC]

As long as Butch Jones is the coach this means nothing. Jones is a conservative coach not only in play-calling but also in personnel decisions.

He'll start the senior even if the underclassmen is more talented. He's more afraid of guys making the wrong calls than if they can make the right play once the bullets are flying.

It took injuries for Chance Hall and Jack Jones to get in the lineup. And we saw the offensive line improve once the young guys got in. Same thing with playing Jumper ahead of Kirkland.

Butch Jones has made bone head decision after bone head decision on who to play.

So which QB is better than Dobbs... 😉

 

[delfonic]

As long as Butch Jones is the coach this means nothing. Jones is a conservative coach not only in play-calling but also in personnel decisions.

He'll start the senior even if the underclassmen is more talented. He's more afraid of guys making the wrong calls than if they can make the right play once the bullets are flying.

It took injuries for Chance Hall and Jack Jones to get in the lineup. And we saw the offensive line improve once the young guys got in. Same thing with playing Jumper ahead of Kirkland.

Butch Jones has made bone head decision after bone head decision on who to play.

You are so full of crap. CBJ has played more first year players through three years than we've ever seen at UT.

Jones seems to have a policy that if you can play, you play. The only decision that is the least bit concerning is the Kirkland/Jumper decision. From all accounts, however, those two were neck and neck through camp.

I understand you watch a lot of football... I just wonder how much of that is UT football.

 

[VAVolsFan2009]

As long as Butch Jones is the coach this means nothing. Jones is a conservative coach not only in play-calling but also in personnel decisions.

He'll start the senior even if the underclassmen is more talented. He's more afraid of guys making the wrong calls than if they can make the right play once the bullets are flying.

That's not totally true. Thomas was moved to starting center over Crowder. There have been some decisions on starters like Jumper and Bynam that seemed to defy logic. However, Kirkland just wasn't ready. He needed to learn the defense and the position. Throwing out blanket negative statements about CBJ and the staff is just not justified. However, it seems you like to throw things against the wall and see if it sticks, hoping for a response.