Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXX

[BigZiti09]

Haha mostly true. VFL34 did say Butch was too much of a micromanager though

Man I don't wanna take a dump on Travis Stephens but I don't believe every word he says as fact.

He also said in the same breath Shoop was on his way out in a week. Nobody will remember that once it doesn't happen though.

 

[BigZiti09]

Well, he did call 9-3 this year and we went 8-4. So sometimes it's even worse than he thinks.

If he had known the injury situation he would have said 3-9.

 

[Catbone]

If he had known the injury situation he would have said 3-9.

More like 6-6 tbh

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

From a poster on VQ...no idea if it's true but I like the sound of it...

I love everything this says

 

[VolsDoc81TX]

What do you guys think was the primary problem with the defense this year? In particular, how do you think Bob Shoop failed to produce his normal kind of results with arguably significantly better talent?

Did Butch interfere?
Did Shoop spend too much time teaching/investing in starters who got injured?
Did Shoop need more freedom to hire his own position coaches?

Any takers on these questions? I personally would like to see Shoop have another season or two to get this ball rolling. There is no way he produces at Vandy and Penn State and suddenly becomes terrible when he comes to Tennessee.

First year with a new scheme and DC, takes time for the players to acclimate. Throw in that all of the defensive coaches had to learn it too. Then throw in that except for Barnett , every other important defensive player and often their primary backup was injured for a significant portion of the season. It is definitely a recipe for disaster. I think that given everything that the defense went through, it is a wonder that 8 games were won.

Yes he spent a ton of time with the AA ans All SEC players as they would in turn teach the backups...Having to also teach all the coaches makes it doubly tough. Shoop may have been the only one to see a missed concept.

Then the truly offensive prima donnas of jalen hurd and preston williams working only for themselves even to the detriment of the entire team. The OL merry go round was tough too. Trying to play key players hurt may have been the biggest faux pas. But everything can be part of the learning curve.

CBJ has taken so many positive steps forward.
Unfortunately, so many can only see the step back.
Legion is as Legion does.

 

[VolsDoc81TX]

If I was CBJ, I would invite Coach Majors and Fulmer over for a drink (or 20) and just talk about how they handled the crap Knoxville media and the disparaging fanbase. Remember Fulmer always would say that he needed to look at the tape. He never really answered the questions. His other one was that they would work like heck to fix the issues that the team faced.

Social media (other than VN) really just blows.

 

[JacketVol]

Aren't you hearing Blackburn? I had heard he wasn't likely but since it's turned into more of an urgent situation that he may be the choice.

did you see my post from earlier this week

 

[BigZiti09]

If I was CBJ, I would invite Coach Majors and Fulmer over for a drink (or 20) and just talk about how they handled the crap Knoxville media and the disparaging fanbase. Remember Fulmer always would say that he needed to look at the tape. He never really answered the questions. His other one was that they would work like heck to fix the issues that the team faced.

Social media (other than VN) really just blows.

I believe Bud Ford used to keep the media somewhat in check.

One of the problems we have is that we have the nations most active fanbase on social media. Media caters to that crowd and knows what drives them.

 

[amazingGRACE]

First year with a new scheme and DC, takes time for the players to acclimate. Throw in that all of the defensive coaches had to learn it too. Then throw in that except for Barnett , every other important defensive player and often their primary backup was injured for a significant portion of the season. It is definitely a recipe for disaster. I think that given everything that the defense went through, it is a wonder that 8 games were won.

Yes he spent a ton of time with the AA ans All SEC players as they would in turn teach the backups...Having to also teach all the coaches makes it doubly tough. Shoop may have been the only one to see a missed concept.

Then the truly offensive prima donnas of jalen hurd and preston williams working only for themselves even to the detriment of the entire team. The OL merry go round was tough too. Trying to play key players hurt may have been the biggest faux pas. But everything can be part of the learning curve.

CBJ has taken so many positive steps forward.
Unfortunately, so many can only see the step back.
Legion is as Legion does.

It works both ways though. Some only see the steps forward & refuse to acknowledge the steps back..not saying you do, just in general.

Trust me, I was that way with Dooley. I was one of his very last supporters & tried my best to get people to see that he could be successful here & needed more time. Jones has done good things, but he's a TERRIBLE in game coach & decision maker especially with personnel.

Jones isn't the guy. Sooner he's out, the better. He's already got one foot out the door anyways looking for other jobs so he's either getting fired next year or he's leaving on his own. Not a recipe for success.

 

[InVOLuntary]

did you see my post from earlier this week

Yea, I responded to it I thought. I was hearing Blackburn early on, and then it appeared to move away from him. This came from his side. Then I heard that it was moving back in his direction due to several factors including urgency to get someone hired. How does this matchup with what you've heard?

 

[BigZiti09]

It works both ways though. Some only see the steps forward & refuse to acknowledge the steps back..not saying you do, just in general.

Trust me, I was that way with Dooley. I was one of his very last supporters & tried my best to get people to see that he could be successful here & needed more time. Jones has done good things, but he's a TERRIBLE in game coach & decision maker especially with personnel.

Jones isn't the guy. Sooner he's out, the better. He's already got one foot out the door anyways looking for other jobs so he's either getting fired next year or he's leaving on his own. Not a recipe for success.

There's not a poster on this board that doesn't see the steps back we took this year.

 

[Catbone]

There's not a poster on this board that doesn't see the steps back we took this year.

Many solely blame Injuries

 

[amazingGRACE]

There's not a poster on this board that doesn't see the steps back we took this year.

Been a lot of "be grateful" "we won 8 games which is way better than Dooley" "Hurd ruined team chemistry" "Williams ruined team chemistry" type comments..

You get the idea. Why not just say he's a bad coach?

 

[amazingGRACE]

Many solely blame Injuries

And this. Can't believe I left out the main excuse.

Florida was decimated with injuries as well. Somehow turned it into an East championship though.

 

[NMVol]

Been a lot of "be grateful" "we won 8 games which is way better than Dooley" "Hurd ruined team chemistry" "Williams ruined team chemistry" type comments..

You get the idea. Why not just say he's a bad coach?

Maybe because of the improvements since he took over?

 

[BruinVol]

Been a lot of "be grateful" "we won 8 games which is way better than Dooley" "Hurd ruined team chemistry" "Williams ruined team chemistry" type comments..

You get the idea. Why not just say he's a bad coach?

Because there is a third option. He had a bad year because of things very uncharacteristic of his teams.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

Because there is a third option. He had a bad year because of things very uncharacteristic of his teams.

It's definitely not as simple as saying "oh, Butch just can't coach". But it is obvious that there are things he needs to get better at. Hiring a better staff would go a long way

 

[Vols4us]

Haha mostly true. VFL34 did say Butch was too much of a micromanager though

He is. You don't have to be in team meetings to know it for certain.

Every season we have seen blatant examples of it with Butch.

Butch is the analytical technician who is a micro manager of details that may or not be relevant to the most important goal - winning. Which is why he is struggling. The monotone coach speak is a deflection of conflict with the media and the fan base. Those conflicts are variables he cannot control. Same reason the system is never modified to fit the roster. Same reason each game resembles the other games in terms of approach. Same reason match-ups are not exploited.

The man has limited feel for what he does. Macro focused guys are generally CEO types. He's not that.

 

[amazingGRACE]

Maybe because of the improvements since he took over?

Even though from last year to this year there has been significant regression?

He's done good & he's done some bad. I just think it's clear he won't cut it here.

 

[JacketVol]

Yea, I responded to it I thought. I was hearing Blackburn early on, and then it appeared to move away from him. This came from his side. Then I heard that it was moving back in his direction due to several factors including urgency to get someone hired. How does this matchup with what you've heard?

spot on but main thing is that I do thing it changed and that is people more from his side now

 

[AV_12]

Man I don't wanna take a dump on Travis Stephens but I don't believe every word he says as fact.

He also said in the same breath Shoop was on his way out in a week. Nobody will remember that once it doesn't happen though.

Yeah, he has said some questionable things in the past.

 

[NMVol]

Even though from last year to this year there has been significant regression?

He's done good & he's done some bad. I just think it's clear he won't cut it here.

That's not really a formulation that justifies calling him a "bad" coach as you did. This year is most likely not the end of the Butch Jones story at Tennessee. Maybe a bit premature to pronounce judgment?

 

[Vols4us]

Will see how it goes, but I hope 8-4 is not considered successful at UT. That's treading water. Bill Battle had Butch's type record in his last 4 years and was met with a moving van after building great trust in his abilities with his first 3 great seasons. Butch gets the 5th season to prove he can win mainly because of his contract terms IMO.

 

[jave36]

And this. Can't believe I left out the main excuse.

Florida was decimated with injuries as well. Somehow turned it into an East championship though.

Decimated is an exaggeration. We had 4 or 5 times more.

 

[jave36]

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