Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXX

[amazingGRACE]

That's not really a formulation that justifies calling him a "bad" coach as you did. This year is most likely not the end of the Butch Jones story at Tennessee. Maybe a bit premature to pronounce judgment?

Literally EVERYBODY from local media, national media, fans, etc said 2016 was the year to judge Butch. That's why he got a pass for completely botching OU & UF last year.

Now that we had a failure of a year, a lot of fans say "no wait, can't judge him yet".

And yes I consider 8-4 with our roster an absolute failure. Everybody should. 9-3 would have been a disappointment. 8-4 is a failure.

 

[justwatch123]

Listen whether we like Butch or not. The one thing we all have in common is we want the VOLS to win.

If us winning involes Butch Jones being the coach and having a incredible coaching staff I'm down for that.

Whether he is the guy is or not is pointless less if he makes the right hires. If he does that we can win again. GO VOLS

 

[amazingGRACE]

Decimated is an exaggeration. We had 4 or 5 times more.

Okay they had a lot of injuries as well but still turned it into an SEC east championship.

 

[vol2002]

Man, it really sucks that we lost to Vandy on Saturday.

Vandy...

Vandy!

I mean - come on!

 

[Maxwell]

The problem is- and let me go ahead and say that I think it is a virtual certainty that Jones is here next year, is we have multiple examples of Butch acting under pressure, and not many of them are positive.

Exactly. How much pressure do you want? He had a chance to win the East. With a disciplined well coached team we could easily be 11-1 this year and potentially in the play off. When winning the East was blown he very luckily got a chance to redeem himself and get a Sugar bowl bid. He blew that and there is no chance of that now. In the Oklahoma and Florida games last year ( under pressure ) he made bad decisions. While we likely would have lost the game anyway, he made another bad decision at the end of the Vandy game. Two losses to Vandy in 4 tries is never acceptable under any circumstances. A loss to a team starting a kid at QB that is still suppose to be a senior in high school when the East is on the line is not either. Bottom line is Saban says it is never acceptable to lose a game. You can tell losses eat at him. CBJ says we are going for 1-0 this week. He wants the fans to forget he ( the team ) lost. He has had his chance. he failed. If you are a fan happy with 8-4 teams then I just do not understand you. Tennessee is still the school that has beat Bama the most ( for now ). I remember when we were 8th in the country in all time wins. Now we have slipped to 10th or 11th. We do not need a coach that can go out and consistently win 8 or 9 ballgames and hope we can stay in the top 15 in all time wins. We need a coach that has a floor of 8 or 9 wins in a very rare season and usually wins 10 or 11 games. We need one that can win the East. If we could not win the East this year then what on earth makes anyone think we can next year. I love the team. I will always support and cheer for them. The Admin down there has basically screwed the fans for several years now until we have almost a whole generation of fans that thinks 8 and 4 is a great season. If CBJ is back next year I will cheer for the team as hard as I would if he was gone. But he has demonstrated over and over that he can recruit, but he is not the guy to ultimately take us where we need to be. When I look at next years schedule I see 7-5 or 8-4 at best.

 

[snowvols]

If Stripling does retire like is being hinted at, Marion Hobby needs to come home.

 

[amazingGRACE]

Exactly. How much pressure do you want? He had a chance to win the East. With a disciplined well coached team we could easily be 11-1 this year and potentially in the play off. When winning the East was blown he very luckily got a chance to redeem himself and get a Sugar bowl bid. He blew that and there is no chance of that now. In the Oklahoma and Florida games last year ( under pressure ) he made bad decisions. While we likely would have lost the game anyway, he made another bad decision at the end of the Vandy game. Two losses to Vandy in 4 tries is never acceptable under any circumstances. A loss to a team starting a kid at QB that is still suppose to be a senior in high school when the East is on the line is not either. Bottom line is Saban says it is never acceptable to lose a game. You can tell losses eat at him. CBJ says we are going for 1-0 this week. He wants the fans to forget he ( the team ) lost. He has had his chance. he failed. If you are a fan happy with 8-4 teams then I just do not understand you. Tennessee is still the school that has beat Bama the most ( for now ). I remember when we were 8th in the country in all time wins. Now we have slipped to 10th or 11th. We do not need a coach that can go out and consistently win 8 or 9 ballgames and hope we can stay in the top 15 in all time wins. We need a coach that has a floor of 8 or 9 wins in a very rare season and usually wins 10 or 11 games. We need one that can win the East. If we could not win the East this year then what on earth makes anyone think we can next year. I love the team. I will always support and cheer for them. The Admin down there has basically screwed the fans for several years now until we have almost a whole generation of fans that thinks 8 and 4 is a great season. If CBJ is back next year I will cheer for the team as hard as I would if he was gone. But he has demonstrated over and over that he can recruit, but he is not the guy to ultimately take us where we need to be. When I look at next years schedule I see 7-5 or 8-4 at best.

.

 

[nicksjuzunk]

Just to put it out there, to see where we are at in regards to the short-term future of this program:

1. Recruiting took a step backwards

2. The team was decimated by injuries

3. In spite of injuries, the team looked worse prepared than last year. Man for man, last year's squad would have beaten this year's squad.

4. Player development appears to be an issue. LB and DB especially.

5. Shoop did not deliver upon expectations, for whatever reason.

6. There were internal issues in the locker room.

7. Offense play calling was inconsistent, game to game.

8. For the first time, Butch's team dropped games they clearly should have won.

---------

So, how many of these things can Butch get fixed, and if so, how do you feel about the future of the program?

 

[nashvol1]

Just to put it out there, to see where we are at in regards to the short-term future of this program:

1. Recruiting took a step backwards

2. The team was decimated by injuries

3. In spite of injuries, the team looked worse prepared than last year. Man for man, last year's squad would have beaten this year's squad.

4. Player development appears to be an issue. LB and DB especially.

5. Shoop did not deliver upon expectations, for whatever reason.

6. There were internal issues in the locker room.

7. Offense play calling was inconsistent, game to game.

8. For the first time, Butch's team dropped games they clearly should have won.

---------

So, how many of these things can Butch get fixed, and if so, how do you feel about the future of the program?

All seem correct except 8. Florida two years in a row and OK. Need a real strength coach, no more "player led" team (kids are still kids and need leadership), no more easy camps, toughness makes teams great.

 

[SergeantVol]

Man, it really sucks that we lost to Vandy on Saturday.

Vandy...

Vandy!

I mean - come on!

But he did break an 11 yr streak against Florida and beat UGA again.

For me it's a wash. I want to see staff changes and a HC that can learn from his mistakes. Y'all act like he should be a world beater. He is paid 9th in the SEC but delivers higher than 9th.

 

[TechnoVol]

If UK goes to the Taxslayer and UT is bumped down to the MCB, how pissed will Vol fans be?

And even worse would be to lose to Indiana, Wisconsin or Nebraska. Fan apathy would be pretty high and the off-season would be brutal.

 

[BigZiti09]

Just to put it out there, to see where we are at in regards to the short-term future of this program:

1. Recruiting took a step backwards

2. The team was decimated by injuries

3. In spite of injuries, the team looked worse prepared than last year. Man for man, last year's squad would have beaten this year's squad.

4. Player development appears to be an issue. LB and DB especially.

5. Shoop did not deliver upon expectations, for whatever reason.

6. There were internal issues in the locker room.

7. Offense play calling was inconsistent, game to game.

8. For the first time, Butch's team dropped games they clearly should have won.

---------

So, how many of these things can Butch get fixed, and if so, how do you feel about the future of the program?

4 & 7 are the ones I am concerned about getting fixed.

 

[vol2002]

Nick, I don't think he fixes any of them. He's lost control of the narrative - everything is pushing against him now and every misstep will be magnified. There aren't many human beings that can be successful in the cesspool of scrutiny and vilification he will face over the next twelve months. I think it will do him in and we'll be lucky to make a bowl game next year, regardless of who is playing for us.

I base this on my experience of watching the same thing happen to Derek Dooley, Charlie Strong, and numerous other coaches in recent years. Once the tide turns against you, there's not much you can do.

I fully expect to be watching a press conference of his after our seventh loss next season where he has the same ashen face that Dooley and Strong had when they knew the final nail was in the coffin and they were being peppered with questions about their job.

it's coming.

 

[NMVol]

Literally EVERYBODY from local media, national media, fans, etc said 2016 was the year to judge Butch. That's why he got a pass for completely botching OU & UF last year.

Now that we had a failure of a year, a lot of fans say "no wait, can't judge him yet".

And yes I consider 8-4 with our roster an absolute failure. Everybody should. 9-3 would have been a disappointment. 8-4 is a failure.

We were discussing this earlier this week. This is a skewed narrative in my view filled with misleading absolutes. Not going to rehash it. There has been a solid contingent on board here that before the 2015 season were suggesting 2017 was the year. It's to CBJ's credit that he pushed the narrative by playing the play-off teams close in 2015. This years results were mixed, but winning against Florida and Georgia are significant.

 

[vol2002]

But he did break an 11 yr streak against Florida and beat UGA again.

For me it's a wash. I want to see staff changes and a HC that can learn from his mistakes. Y'all act like he should be a world beater. He is paid 9th in the SEC but delivers higher than 9th.

He's had a baffling tenure here that's for sure. How can you do those things and then have two career losses to Vanderbilt?

 

[amazingGRACE]

We were discussing this earlier this week. This is a skewed narrative in my view filled with misleading absolutes. Not going to rehash it. There has been a solid contingent on board here that before the 2015 season were suggesting 2017 was the year. It's to CBJ's credit that he pushed the narrative by playing the play-off teams close in 2015. This years results were mixed, but winning against Florida and Georgia are significant.

Can I get the reasoning why some think next year will be better than this year even though we're losing A TON of talent & production? At huge positions of need, no less.

Honestly it blows my mind.

 

[Catbone]

Can I get the reasoning why some think next year will be better than this year even though we're losing A TON of talent & production? At huge positions of need, no less.

Honestly it blows my mind.

Coaching will have to make up for lack of talent and production. That is unlikely to happen based on what happened this year.

 

[BigZiti09]

Can I get the reasoning why some think next year will be better than this year even though we're losing A TON of talent & production? At huge positions of need, no less.

Honestly it blows my mind.

I've went over it probably a dozen times.

Biggest reason for me is the offensive and defensive lines. Those are developmental positions and Butch really did not recruit well at DT or OL until 2015 especially DT.

That is where everything starts in this league. If you improve at those two areas then everything else gets better even if you are losing some of your key players.

On top of that, the senior class we are graduating is thin and weak. Cam JRM and Dobbs are impact players. The rest from that class will be easily replaced.

Barnett and Kamara will hurt to lose. Malone would be a big loss as well.

 

[Nashvegas31]

Butch needs to put his best playmakers on defense instead of moving them to offense. That's a big 12 state of mind. You win championships with dominate defense.

Byrd and Callaway at CB would have significantly improved the out look for CB next year. He also needs to quit leaving best talent on bench. A seasoned warrior would have been helpful toward end of year. Instead he wasn't prepared due to no game reps

 

[31VFL]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IIfFSzLgaRU

Bubba Thompson's championship game stream. From what I've watched, Hoover has him running for his life.

 

[McGeesPub]

I've went over it probably a dozen times.

Biggest reason for me is the offensive and defensive lines. Those are developmental positions and Butch really did not recruit well at DT or OL until 2015 especially DT.

That is where everything starts in this league. If you improve at those two areas then everything else gets better even if you are losing some of your key players.

On top of that, the senior class we are graduating is thin and weak. Cam JRM and Dobbs are impact players. The rest from that class will be easily replaced.

Barnett and Kamara will hurt to lose. Malone would be a big loss as well.

But no one, including you, can explain how the DL will be better next year without DB. They were ok before the injuries and dismissal, but certainly not exceptional.

Chalking up the OL as a strength is iffy too. They improved to the point where they maybe weren't a liability, but it the projected line for next year isn't screaming "elite" either.

 

[Vols4us]

But no one, including you, can explain how the DL will be better next year without DB. They were ok before the injuries and dismissal, but certainly not exceptional.

Chalking up the OL as a strength is iffy too. They improved to the point where they maybe weren't a liability, but it the projected line for next year isn't screaming "elite" either.

Reality.

 

[BigZiti09]

But no one, including you, can explain how the DL will be better next year without DB. They were ok before the injuries and dismissal, but certainly not exceptional.

Chalking up the OL as a strength is iffy too. They improved to the point where they maybe weren't a liability, but it the projected line for next year isn't screaming "elite" either.

On the D line.... everyone is a year older. We lose Barnett. We have some real talent at the DE position so I'm not worried about replacing CV. Shy and Khalil are a great combo but DT's showout later in their careers. That's a position where strength and conditioning matters more so than others. When DT is better then everything looks better on defense.

On the O line. Again, we lose one player. This is a developmental position as well and one that Dooley really left us depleted after the 2013 seniors and Tiny left. It takes time to fix that position when it's in that kind of mess. (I'm ready to see a coaching change here)

Wait and see. We will be better at both lines overall next year.

 

[nicksjuzunk]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IIfFSzLgaRU

Bubba Thompson's championship game stream. From what I've watched, Hoover has him running for his life.

Daannnng....

Highschool female sideline reporter just pondered if Bubba Thompson would "pursue the championship of life at Tennessee."

Burn.

 

[VOL-uh-tile]

Can I get the reasoning why some think next year will be better than this year even though we're losing A TON of talent & production? At huge positions of need, no less.

Honestly it blows my mind.

Looking Ahead: Tennessee Football 2017 Depth Chart First Draft - Rocky Top Talk
Junior and Senior starters across the board. Our floor should be 8-4 next season