Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXX

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#8,277
#8,277
volatil said:
Hubbs, Fort, and Brice all but confirmed he was. No need to get bent out of shape about it. I'm sure Butch didn't pick up the phone and call these schools. His agent is being proactive. Let's be honest here, Butch knows he's at a real cross road for next season with a new AD that did not hire him.
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Agents should always be looking out for their clients regardless of the kind of year the coach has. Saying CBJ is not trying at UT and has his head up his ass because he is looking for another job is quite the stretch in my opinion.
 
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#8,278
#8,278
bignewt said:
Agents should always be looking out for their clients regardless of the kind of year the coach has. Saying CBJ is not trying at UT and has his head up his ass because he is looking for another job is quite the stretch in my opinion.
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Yeah "not trying" is kinda a deal breaker for most schools looking for coaches 😂
 
#8,279
#8,279
Vols4us said:
100% agree. If this was even close to past years they would be working this week to get ready for a good game against Bama for the SEC crown and would be rated in the top 8 teams in the country.

Which comes back to the HC (Lyle) as BrB posted. He has met expectations in Seasons 2 and 3. He did not in Seasons 1 and 4. He has not exceeded expectations and any time in the W/L column. Early on he exceeded expectations in recruiting only. For the past two cycles he has not met expectations providing this one finishes similar to how it now appears. There is still time to turn that around.

For those that blame injuries, you are looking at the symptom of the current status and not the cause. The primary causes were the system, the players that were recruited, the lack of success in developing players in specific position groups, and the S&C program. All of which the HC provides and controls.

Extension and raise? If he actually asked for that he is crazier than he appears.
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I'm pissed at Butch right now too, but how in the hell do you say he "did not meet expectations" in year one? That is not a fair criticism at all. You would have to be a real boob to think we were gonna win more than five games that year at any point. I even give him a pass for losing to Vandy that year. Franklin had that team doing very well, while our program had been nuked to the stone age.
 
#8,280
#8,280
Volscardio said:
Just some food for thought for anybody saying fire Schoop. He came in and had to teach new schemes to not only players but coaches as well. Who remembers all the talk about him watching tape with Kirkland and JRM those were the guys running the defense on the field. When your trying to implement new schemes in a limited amount of time you teach it to the most important guys first then begin to go down the list. For those saying everyone has injuries that is true to an extent but buy the time we were on the third string linebackers with a new DC who is notorious on running very complex defensive schemes .How much do you think they were actually running much of schoops defense? Those guys were probably at the point to where it was just go get the football. If the backers on the field are not familiar enough to run his scheme it is just a trickle down affect from there. Hence the mass chaos we saw on defense the last few games
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Good first post. Shoop is not absolved completely in my mind, but the injuries, having none of his own position coaches, and the lock down defense we saw early in the season tells me he's capable and will probably do much better next year.
 
#8,281
#8,281
Volscardio said:
Just some food for thought for anybody saying fire Schoop. He came in and had to teach new schemes to not only players but coaches as well. Who remembers all the talk about him watching tape with Kirkland and JRM those were the guys running the defense on the field. When your trying to implement new schemes in a limited amount of time you teach it to the most important guys first then begin to go down the list. For those saying everyone has injuries that is true to an extent but buy the time we were on the third string linebackers with a new DC who is notorious on running very complex defensive schemes .How much do you think they were actually running much of schoops defense? Those guys were probably at the point to where it was just go get the football. If the backers on the field are not familiar enough to run his scheme it is just a trickle down affect from there. Hence the mass chaos we saw on defense the last few games
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Nice first post, and welcome to the crazy train. You've done well to find yourself in this thread, as it used to be full of sanity. It's still better than the alternatives.
 
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#8,282
#8,282
Looking at next year, DB worries me the most.

Also, there's been a good bit of discussion about DL. I tend to agree that it should, overall, be slightly better (assuming an average number/type of injuries, instead of the atomic bomb that got dropped on our DTs this year). Everybody realizes that losing Barnett is a big deal, but I thought someone speculated that, while he has been a pass rushing monster, he might not be quite as good in run support/filling the correct gaps.

I have no idea whether or not this is true, because I'm no expert in the nuances of DL play. But, if there is any truth to it, perhaps the drop off won't be quite so devastating (e.g. maybe the starter next year gives us a bump in run stopping, with the inevitable decline in affecting opponent's passing game...which, again, brings me back to worrying about the DBs).
 
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#8,283
#8,283
Chuckie said:
Looking at next year, DB worries me the most.

Also, there's been a good bit of discussion about DL. I tend to agree that it should, overall, be slightly better (assuming an average number/type of injuries, instead of the atomic bomb that got dropped on our DTs this year). Everybody realizes that losing Barnett is a big deal, but I thought someone speculated that, while he has been a pass rushing monster, he might not be quite as good in run support/filling the correct gaps.

I have no idea whether or not this is true, because I'm no expert in the nuances of DL play. But, if there is any truth to it, perhaps the drop off won't be quite so devastating (e.g. maybe the starter next year gives us a bump in run stopping, with the inevitable decline in affecting opponent's passing game...which, again, brings me back to worrying about the DBs).
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I agree with this. Corner is a really big question mark going into next year. DL, if healthy, is SEC caliber.

I'm also very excited to see a healthy duo of Sapp and Kirkland at LB. I also hope Bituli makes huge strides this spring and takes the 3rd LB snaps that Bynum was getting this year in 4-3 sets, and also supplants Jumper at 2nd team MLB.
 
#8,284
#8,284
99bubble said:
I don't know. You're down on the guy and I get your points. IMO turnovers were the biggest culprit this year. Players hold on to the ball and we are likely 11-1. Then how do you evaluate? Tough all around.
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Well coached teams don't turn the ball over like us. Lyles is the only reason we aren't in yet playoff hunt. That's injuries and all.
 
#8,287
#8,287
BruinVol said:
12 TOs in 2015

Who was the HC in that year?
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That's what I just don't get. With how disciplined Butch's teams have been, with all the returning experience we had...what in the world happened? It's like people were pointing out -- we were off even without all the injuries, right from the first game. What in the world happened? We've always known Butch is a middling in-game coach, that he doesn't always play the right personnel, that he went and hired a swim coach to run his offense; and yet we never had to wonder whether the team was tough or disciplined until this year.

It's just so disappointing because it looked like when we had finally overcome so many of our problems, a whole host of new problems rose up to take their place.
 
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#8,289
#8,289
Remember at the beginning of the year when James Franklin was most likely going to be fired from Penn State? Things change.. Now, he's one of the hot young coaches.

It is obvious that we are going to be stuck with Butch for another year and hopefully we will be looking at him differently next year. He has definitely improved things since he's been here (It's not been that long since we were in the toilet bowl) If not, he's gone.
 
#8,292
#8,292
nicksjuzunk said:
A fun analysis... Remove our missing starters position from our opponents and then tell me their W/L. Guarantee everyone drops multiple additional Games, except Bama.

Flip it, and take any SEC teams injuries. Give them to TN. With the exception of a Dobbs injury, we improve around the board
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images
 
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#8,293
#8,293
Volscardio said:
Just some food for thought for anybody saying fire Schoop. He came in and had to teach new schemes to not only players but coaches as well. Who remembers all the talk about him watching tape with Kirkland and JRM those were the guys running the defense on the field. When your trying to implement new schemes in a limited amount of time you teach it to the most important guys first then begin to go down the list. For those saying everyone has injuries that is true to an extent but buy the time we were on the third string linebackers with a new DC who is notorious on running very complex defensive schemes .How much do you think they were actually running much of schoops defense? Those guys were probably at the point to where it was just go get the football. If the backers on the field are not familiar enough to run his scheme it is just a trickle down affect from there. Hence the mass chaos we saw on defense the last few games
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I'm not saying fire Shoop or anything, but I definitely have concerns. I'm hoping the biggest problem was injuries, but it looked to me like the secondary was poorly coached. LBs too but it's hard for a LB to look good when he has an OL and H-back free releasing to him on every play. Not sure I buy how complicated Shoops D is either because from what I saw we ran the same 2 formations game after game, MOSTLY nickle lined up the same every play. And it isn't like we were fooling anyone with the telegraphed nickle blitzes.

Add all that to the fact that penn st is doing fine without him....... I'm just concerned. Still have hope that the biggest culprit was injuries though.
 
#8,295
#8,295
chavisut said:
Turnovers, penalties, and general sloppiness all year is on who IYO?


One or two games is a player issue.
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It was a bad year that was against the norm in terms of this topic. Doesn't the fact the rest of his career has been very different give you hope that part of this will be corrected? It does for me
 
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#8,296
#8,296
AV_12 said:
Offense could be good. Defense scared me at every level. Too many questions
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Offense scares me more than the defense. Haven't bought into the Dormady hype and Gitmo will be a typical freshman QB. Kelly is a good RB but we have 0 depth there. WR's are good assuming Malone stays but they can't do much if they can't get the ball. TE has been hit or miss in Butch's 4 years, so who knows what we get there. I assume Wolf will be solid. OL has consistently underperformed in this offense and I'm not going to fall for the "another year of experience has to help" line again. Hopefully a coaching change is made in that area.
 
#8,297
#8,297
BruinVol said:
It was a bad year that was against the norm in terms of this topic. Doesn't the fact the rest of his career has been very different give you hope that part of this will be corrected? It does for me
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If we're going to continue on the norm for everything, my confidence is low.
 
#8,298
#8,298
Also, we're going to see some guys penciled in as contributors transfer this off-season. Butch has proven his attitude often runs good players off. Guys like Tyler Byrd and Shy Tuttle come to mind.
 
#8,299
#8,299
Kingston Vol said:
Offense scares me more than the defense. Haven't bought into the Dormady hype and Gitmo will be a typical freshman QB. Kelly is a good RB but we have 0 depth there. WR's are good assuming Malone stays but they can't do much if they can't get the ball. TE has been hit or miss in Butch's 4 years, so who knows what we get there. I assume Wolf will be solid. OL has consistently underperformed in this offense and I'm not going to fall for the "another year of experience has to help" line again. Hopefully a coaching change is made in that area.
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The fate of Butch jones rides on QB. Everything else will be solid enough for him to survive IMO
 
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