Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXXI

[WallyBalls]

Sure. I think it's fair to say Butch has more people behind him than Dooley did going into 2012. But remember, we were damn near unanimous that Sunseri was going to be great and after that NC State beatdown we were as unified as ever.

**** can hit the fan quickly - and there are some striking similarities regarding staff movement.

Some similarities, yes, but some pretty significant differences as well.

The biggest of which is that more than a few are at the very least not being retained, if not actively encouraged to move along.

 

[Kingston Vol]

How many coaches other than Sunseri did we replace before that final season?

Baggett retired, Russell went to WSU, Wilcox left and took Sirmon with him. Hiestand went to ND.

For comparison: DeBord retired, Thig and Martinez want out, rumored that Stripling may retire, and we may move on from Mahoney. Azzanni wants to move. Scott interviewed for a couple of HC jobs but will stay because of raise and promotion.

 

[LynxVol]

Scott, Shoop, and CRG look like they're staying. That's good enough for me. The rest are easily replaceable. I do hope the clean sweep of defensive assistants works out, though. I'm giving Shoop a pass because of the supposed poor staff chemistry on his side of the ball and the rash of injuries.

I think Azzanni stays as well - at least for the 2017 season. I think that is a good thing.

 

[Kingston Vol]

The big differences here are that we will be keeping the same defensive and offensive systems. With Sunseri we changed our system from a base 4-3 to a base 3-4. Whoever comes in for OC Butch has already acknowledged that we are keeping the same system, but add some very small tweaks to it. Obviously we don't know what these tweaks will be right now, but that is no where near a complete change in defensive scheme.

Absolutely.

 

[chavisut]

What S&C guy doesn't emphasize free weights?

 

[mr.checkerboards]

Baggett retired, Russell went to WSU, Wilcox left and took Sirmon with him. Hiestand went to ND.

For comparison: DeBord retired, Thig and Martinez want out, rumored that Stripling may retire, and we may move on from Mahoney.

To add to this we opened the 2012 season with a beat down over nc state so I hope everyone doesn't get their hopes up if we be ga tech

 

[chavisut]

Make Hoke the LB coach and give Marion Hobby all the monies to come home and coach DL.

Yes. At least to Hobby.

 

[WarMachine]

What S&C guy doesn't emphasize free weights?

Maybe?

 

[LynxVol]

Baggett retired, Russell went to WSU, Wilcox left and took Sirmon with him. Hiestand went to ND.

For comparison: DeBord retired, Thig and Martinez want out, rumored that Stripling may retire, and we may move on from Mahoney. Azzanni wants to move. Scott interviewed for a couple of HC jobs but will stay because of raise and promotion.

Are you looking at this situation with the intent to try to find something wrong with it?

I don't think the situations surrounding 2012 and now are even remotely close; however, I'm not looking at it solely from a staff turnover perspective.

Scott interviews for HC gigs because the football community likely sees potential. Has he really had any major hiccups in his career to this point? Based on everything we know, he's a good coach and recruiter. Losing DeBord may not hurt anything because we know the system overall is not going to change.

Thig and Martinez may want out, but how much is that their choice? Moreover, would you honestly say that their position groups have performed well or exceeded expectations? Thig can recruit, but that should definitely not be the only reason to keep him.

 

[Vols4us]

Azzanni has been trying to leave/get a better title for like 3 years and no one wants him.

Martinez is gonna get fired and his best landing spot is GA Southern.

And Thig wants to go back to UNC, but Fedora doesn't want him.

Oh, and Jancek didn't get a ride to Eugene with Taggart either (at least not yet).

Yeah...I'm all for staff upgrades at this point. It's pretty clear that most of Butch's original staff was comprised of dudes who aren't very well respected in coaching circles.

Sums it up quite nicely.

On your last point and not addressing this to you as you are one of the very best posters on here in my book; some of us knew the mediocracy when the "best staff in America" was stressed by Butch in his initial presser. Yet, when stated the shout down was massive on here. That is exactly what turns good posters off from coming here and staying here as part of the community. You want the information funnel to shut off, keep it up. FWIW.

I agree, this is a great opportunity to upgrade. IMO Butch hit a home run with Rock and I really think Hoke can upgrade the D-line development/recruiting if hired. I am good with Scott at OC as long as he has the authority to run with the job and develop the O. He has different experiences than Butch that can add to the mix. There is a play list for every game that have been practiced. They have a go to situational list along with the feel of the OC and HC during the game. Scott has seen a lot of football on the O side. He can handle it with Butch assisting as needed. However, I do not understand hiring another question mark for any position group. Get it right now. That hodge podge coaching hiring in Dools' last year is a clear indicator of near term failure.

 

[Kingston Vol]

Are you looking at this situation with the intent to try to find something wrong with it?

I don't think the situations surrounding 2012 and now are even remotely close; however, I'm not looking at it solely from a staff turnover perspective.

Scott interviews for HC gigs because the football community likely sees potential. Has he really had any major hiccups in his career to this point? Based on everything we know, he's a good coach and recruiter. Losing DeBord may not hurt anything because we know the system overall is not going to change.

Thig and Martinez may want out, but how much is that their choice? Moreover, would you honestly say that their position groups have performed well or exceeded expectations? Thig can recruit, but that should definitely not be the only reason to keep him.

No, I think Scott will be good on offense.

And I don't really know that, in 2012, that Sirmon or Wilcox were that good either. We upgraded over Hiestand and Baggett in my opinion as well.

I'm not saying we can't or that we aren't upgrading certain spots. But just that, in a do or die year, that change CAN be a negative even if the changes are net upgrades. Meaning sometimes it takes more than 9 months for a coach to make his total impact, even if he is better than the guy he replaced.

 

[LynxVol]

Video: Vols' early enrollees move into new dorm

The five early enrollees from Tennessee's 2017 recruiting class arrived on campus over the weekend, and they were among the first students to move into UT's newest residence hall.

Tennessee's new Stokely Hall, located adjacent to the Vols' outdoor football practice fields and Neyland-Thompson Sports Center, recently opened in time for the start of Tennessee's spring semester.

- 247

 

[Enki_Amenra]

What S&C guy doesn't emphasize free weights?

 

[Atzar]

To add to this we opened the 2012 season with a beat down over nc state so I hope everyone doesn't get their hopes up if we be ga tech

...what would you have everybody do, then? Expect failure?

Is it even fun watching football with that frame of mind? At this end of the day, this is entertainment. If it's not fun, why bother?

Look, I'm not a sunshine pumper. The coaches and team deserve much of the criticism they've received after their underachievement last year. And I think concerns over this coaching carousel are justified, for the most part (though I personally don't get caught up in judging this candidate compared to that one; just show me the results). But I don't understand this fatalistic doom-and-gloom that a couple of posters have, because it doesn't seem like an enjoyable way to follow my team.

 

[MockingVol]

How would people feel about this staff?

Offense
OC/TE : Scott
OL : Wells
RB : Gillispie
WR : Azzani
QB : Canales

Defense
DC: Shoop
LB : Sirmon (Nevermind, he is about to be announced as Louisville's DC)
DL : Hoke
DB : Barlow
* Stripling moves to supervisory role so he doesn't have to go on the road, but still gets to help team.

Special Teams Co : Azzani

Strength and Conditioning : Gullickson

I think that Defensive staff would be a 1,000,000% upgrade while also being good-great recruiters. Have no clue on who would be in play for LB, but I can't imagine them being a coaching downgrade from Thig.

The offensive Staff is a bit of a wash, though I believe that having anyone for QB coach is better than not having one. Though I believe that Azzani is gone sooner than later, I don't believe it is this year. I think to appease him for one or two more years he will get the Special Teams Co tag and a bump in pay.

Also, I love Gullickson. I think he is going to do wonders for our teams conditioning and discipline.

 

[VAVolsFan2009]

I saw this article in the O&W Report. Thought everyone would find it interesting.

https://orangeandwhitereport.com/vol-nations-mob-mentality-dd0b1fcb3408#.31zddxmlf

 

[VolsnCards5]

I saw this article in the O&W Report. Thought everyone would find it interesting.

https://orangeandwhitereport.com/vol-nations-mob-mentality-dd0b1fcb3408#.31zddxmlf

She ain't wrong

 

[Glitch]

How would people feel about this staff?

Offense
OC/TE : Scott
OL : Wells
RB : Gillispie
WR : Azzani
QB : Canales

Defense
DC: Shoop
LB : Sirmon (Nevermind, he is about to be announced as Louisville's DC)
DL : Hoke
DB : Barlow
* Stripling moves to supervisory role so he doesn't have to go on the road, but still gets to help team.

Special Teams Co : Azzani

Strength and Conditioning : Gullickson

I think that Defensive staff would be a 1,000,000% upgrade while also being good-great recruiters. Have no clue on who would be in play for LB, but I can't imagine them being a coaching downgrade from Thig.

The offensive Staff is a bit of a wash, though I believe that having anyone for QB coach is better than not having one. Though I believe that Azzani is gone sooner than later, I don't believe it is this year. I think to appease him for one or two more years he will get the Special Teams Co tag and a bump in pay.

Also, I love Gullickson. I think he is going to do wonders for our teams conditioning and discipline.

OFFENSE:
We haven't had a true QB coach, except for Bajakian, since Butch took over. So while Canales might be underwhelming in the eyes of many, I think any QB coach is better than no QB coach. Sheridan was fine but a GA ain't gonna cut it long term at that position.

I also think that many will question the Wells to OL hire. They will associate him with Mahoney who everyone seems to dislike even with their improvement over the course of this past season. I don't think we really have any evidence as to whether Wells would actually be a good OL coach or not so it would have to be a wait and see situation. I think that we could find a more experienced OL coach but I don't know who we would go after.

Azzani's group showed the most improvement this past year. They still had their drops but if he is getting better as a coach then I would be fine with him sticking around. Many wanted to drop him a couple of years ago but I think Butch was able to coach him a little and the improvement has been good.

Scott to OC is a done deal IMO so we will just have to wait and see how his playcalling looks when the season starts. Hopefully he will be a little more open to cracking the playbook wide open earlier in the season. I think that he will want to install more of his own wrinkles and the fresh perspective will be good for the offense that has kinda been stagnant in terms of creativity under the last two OC's. Debord had a great year but was often very predictable. I think CLS is younger and maybe a little more creative and energetic and will revitalize the offense.

Gillespie is a homerun and they need to hang on to him as long as possible. He is going to get offers soon. It would be great is CLS runs the show for a few years and mentors Gillespie so when CLS gets a HC call Gillespie could take over the OC rolls and keep the train rolling.

DEFENSE:
Our LBs were killed by injuries but the inability of the backups to line up and understand their assignments was mindblowing. Thig may be good on the trail but eventually good LBs are gonna stop wanting to come to UT if the ones that are here aren't getting developed. The question is, who would we get to replace him?

Martinez was clearly not on the same page as Shoop because the secondary look lost all year. They have way to much talent for that. Barlow's record and his familiarity with Shoop is a great upgrade in my book.

If Shoop thinks he can work with Hoke then I think it is a nice option to replace Strip if he chooses to step back. Great coaching record and killer on the trail. Would be a even trade or even a slight upgrade if Strip sticks around the program.

 

[butchna]

I'm going to wait as well, but am concerned that I've seen this movie before.

Then there won't be a sequel if this one bombs. :hmm:

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

Then there won't be a sequel if this one bombs. :hmm:

That's a true statement. This either works and we're in Atlanta looking good and Butch looks like a genius, or Blackburn is looking for a new HC for 2018

 

[MockingVol]

That's a true statement. This either works and we're in Atlanta looking good and Butch looks like a genius, or Blackburn is looking for a new HC for 2018

I don't think it's quite Atlanta-or-bust. If Smart is not who I think he is, there is a good chance they could be a contender next year with their surplus of talent. A 9+ win season and the staff/ young players clicking would probably get Butch extended in hopes for an elite 2018.

 

[SergeantVol]

I saw this article in the O&W Report. Thought everyone would find it interesting.

https://orangeandwhitereport.com/vol-nations-mob-mentality-dd0b1fcb3408#.31zddxmlf

She should have mentioned Sab in the cyber stalking part.

 

[volatil]

I believe his family still lives in Nashville. It's all happening…

Yep

Son plays for Brentwood Academy and being recruited by Washington

 

[The Breakerboy]

I think the board has Stripling overrated. I have not seen a monster D-line out of him yet. Talent wasn't an issue. Barnett has been silly since he hired campus so he doesn't count at all.

 

[head1]

Sirmon will run back to Wilcox, especially if Wilcox gets the Cal job.