Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXXIV

[buckfama]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.. with the injuries, locker room drama, apparently friction among the defensive assistants, and losing O'brien and Williams, I think CBJ did a decent job of holding everything together.

And now it's coming out all the crap he has to put up with from the boosters and the UT administration? If I understood it correctly they are the reason for no S&C coach last year, would not allow him to hire one.

And still finished 9-4? He did ok by me.. Vandy and SC losses be damned.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.. with the injuries, locker room drama, apparently friction among the defensive assistants, and losing O'brien and Williams, I think CBJ did a decent job of holding everything together.

And now it's coming out all the crap he has to put up with from the boosters and the UT administration? If I understood it correctly they are the reason for no S&C coach last year, would not allow him to hire one.

And still finished 9-4? He did ok by me.. Vandy and SC losses be damned.

Agreed

 

[volfaninpa]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.. with the injuries, locker room drama, apparently friction among the defensive assistants, and losing O'brien and Williams, I think CBJ did a decent job of holding everything together.

And now it's coming out all the crap he has to put up with from the boosters and the UT administration? If I understood it correctly they are the reason for no S&C coach last year, would not allow him to hire one.

And still finished 9-4? He did ok by me.. Vandy and SC losses be damned.

Barring injuries, a lot more seems in place for Butch to be a success. I for one am pulling for him.

 

[vol2002]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.. with the injuries, locker room drama, apparently friction among the defensive assistants, and losing O'brien and Williams, I think CBJ did a decent job of holding everything together.

And now it's coming out all the crap he has to put up with from the boosters and the UT administration? If I understood it correctly they are the reason for no S&C coach last year, would not allow him to hire one.

And still finished 9-4? He did ok by me.. Vandy and SC losses be damned.

I recall Muschamp being dealt a similarly bad hand with injuries at Florida in 2013 and he went 4-8. Last year could have been much worse.

 

[vol2002]

We had struggled with Appy State. That's what was stuck in everyone's heads.

Also national media won't talk about the injuries nor do the kids see the injuries. They see losses to Vandy and SCAR.

I wonder if those same kids ever talk about Clemson struggling with Troy at home, barely slipping by NC State and losing in a shootout to an 8 win Pitt team with (dare I say it) slow footed, one dimensional Nate Peterman at the helm. Bottom line: it happens to prettty much everyone.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

One of the key talking points is how their defense still finished sixth nationally with all the injuries they had and a lot of guys that got playing time arr returning. Please tell me how this is different than us losing Cameron Sutton and reeves Maybin for the entire year and Kirkland essentially along with all the other injuries we dealt with.

I might get hammered for this, but this difference is that their defense was still pretty good after they lost their starters and our defense became the worst in school history.



I still expect them to drop off, though. Especially now that they've lost their best safety for the ear and will have to shift that secondary around. Before that I was expecting to see their defense go from top 10 to around top 30. Now they're just a secondary injury away from from dropping to around top 50, IMO.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

I might get hammered for this, but this difference is that their defense was still pretty good after they lost their starters and our defense became the worst in school history.



I still expect them to drop off, though. Especially now that they've lost their best safety for the ear and will have to shift that secondary around. Before that I was expecting to see their defense go from top 10 to around top 30. Now they're just a secondary injury away from from dropping to around top 50, IMO.

True, but we didn't just lose our starters. We lost multiple back ups. We were forced to play Jumper and several different guys at OLB because not only was JRM out, but so was Sapp and McDowell for a few games. Then, we not only lost starters In the secondary at times, but also backups, which is why Baylen and Warrior had to play. Couple that with losing 4 of top 5 DT, so that we have Vickers and then either walk on Bain or defensive ends playing at DT, then we were a considerably worse unit than anything Florida dealt with last year. Their injuries for the year was the equivalent of about where we were at after Ohio and we still stomped them and beat GA. After aTm, and then especially after Bama, we were completely depleted on the defensive side of the ball. Even when guys came back like DK, Sutton, and TK, they were playing at considerably less than 100%. This is by their own admission. DK for instance said he wasn't 100% until about two weeks before spring camp

 

[The Breakerboy]

I wonder if those same kids ever talk about Clemson struggling with Troy at home, barely slipping by NC State and losing in a shootout to an 8 win Pitt team with (dare I say it) slow footed, one dimensional Nate Peterman at the helm. Bottom line: it happens to prettty much everyone.

Clemson has been in the playoffs two years in a row. Bit of a different perception for them.

 

[buckfama]

I can't say this for a fact but we got down into our 3rd string, especially at Lb and Dt.. 3rd!! And in some cases we just ran out of bodies and put players that had trained and prepared for one position (de) in and had them play another.

I don't think UF had as many as we did or as severe.

I don't care who you are as a team. If bama had lost all their NT and DE's and was plugging in lB's on the D line, they would have lost more than the championship game. Folks think that injuries aren't an excuse, they aren't, but they are a reason.

Like Bass said, even when the starters did come back they weren't 100%.. all the whining in the FF about those 2 losses gets old. "There is no exscuse for those losses!"

No, but there are REASONS that a reasonable fan might be able to recognize if they will just honestly look. I'm not happy about those losses, would have been great watching the Vols in Atlanta again or in the Sugar bowl, but it didn't happen so you move on.

On that note.. I think this team is loaded and tighter, they seem more like a "team" than last year. Like the family the recruits always talk about. I think they are gonna be a force this year..


But.. what the heck do I know?? That and a nickel won't even buy you gum anymore. Lol

 

[The Breakerboy]

I might get hammered for this, but this difference is that their defense was still pretty good after they lost their starters and our defense became the worst in school history.



I still expect them to drop off, though. Especially now that they've lost their best safety for the ear and will have to shift that secondary around. Before that I was expecting to see their defense go from top 10 to around top 30. Now they're just a secondary injury away from from dropping to around top 50, IMO.

Where's the depth upfront for them?

 

[Aesius]

I wonder if those same kids ever talk about Clemson struggling with Troy at home, barely slipping by NC State and losing in a shootout to an 8 win Pitt team with (dare I say it) slow footed, one dimensional Nate Peterman at the helm. Bottom line: it happens to prettty much everyone.

Yes. Sometimes you just lose games. Everybody has talent now. Even G5 and some FCS teams have 6'3"+ 285 lbs+ monsters who can move on their lines of scrimmage and athletes at the skill positions.

 

[vol2002]

Yes. Sometimes you just lose games. Everybody has talent now. Even G5 and some FCS teams have 6'3"+ 285 lbs+ monsters who can move on their lines of scrimmage and athletes at the skill positions.

Harbaugh had one of the most talented teams in football and lost to Iowa. He doesn't take much heat for that. I think SCAR is in the same class as Iowa.

 

[buckfama]

Harbaugh had one of the most talented teams in football and lost to Iowa. He doesn't take much heat for that. I think SCAR is in the same class as Iowa.

It seems to me that the reason that game turns so many peoples crank the wrong way is that we got beat by a freshman QB and we had a senior QB.

Dobbs already took responsibility for that loss.. he had probably his worst game of the year. His WR's didn't do him any favors either. Plus I feel the injuries hurt team chemistry last year, especially on D. Hard to play well as a unit when they keep having to shuffle pieces around.

That was a perfect storm for SC to win that game. Lots of errors all the way around. I hope they enjoyed it because CBJ is getting the Muschamp monkey off his back this year..and it won't even be a close game either.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

Where's the depth upfront for them?

Do you expect them to be worse than a top 50 defense? lol

They're gonna take a step back but they shouldn't be bad. We had a top 40 defense in 2014 with basically just Jordan Williams, Danny O'Brien, and an out of shape Owen Williams at DT.

Randy Shannon hasn't been a DC in a while and he won't have as much talent as those Miami defenses he's had in the past, but he should be able to do something with what they've got. They might wear down late in the season, but they should basically be fresh when we get them.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

True, but we didn't just lose our starters. We lost multiple back ups. We were forced to play Jumper and several different guys at OLB because not only was JRM out, but so was Sapp and McDowell for a few games. Then, we not only lost starters In the secondary at times, but also backups, which is why Baylen and Warrior had to play. Couple that with losing 4 of top 5 DT, so that we have Vickers and then either walk on Bain or defensive ends playing at DT, then we were a considerably worse unit than anything Florida dealt with last year. Their injuries for the year was the equivalent of about where we were at after Ohio and we still stomped them and beat GA. After aTm, and then especially after Bama, we were completely depleted on the defensive side of the ball. Even when guys came back like DK, Sutton, and TK, they were playing at considerably less than 100%. This is by their own admission. DK for instance said he wasn't 100% until about two weeks before spring camp

Good points.


I was just trying to give the reasoning most fans/media are using for counting their experience as a strong point for them but not for us. I don't think many people have looked into how bad our team's injuries were when compared to theirs.

 

[Appalachiamuck]

I wonder if those same kids ever talk about Clemson struggling with Troy at home, barely slipping by NC State and losing in a shootout to an 8 win Pitt team with (dare I say it) slow footed, one dimensional Nate Peterman at the helm. Bottom line: it happens to prettty much everyone.

Clemson has been in the playoffs two years in a row. Bit of a different perception for them.

Rewind a couple years. Did these recruits that were the core of those back to back playoff teams care about the WVU blowout? Not to mention all the other games Clemson "shouldn't have lost"? Keep in mind we're talking about the ACC here too.

Dabo surrounded himself with solid assistants who could recruit, caught some breaks, and now enjoys the spoils. Everyone is so short term results oriented, when in reality, the difference between a decent and great coach in today's game is barely noticeable and likely determined more by short term variance than anything else. Fans like BB and pretty much the vast majority is what creates situations where we only recognize 4-5 coaches as "elite" because everyone is too impatient to allow a coach the realistic timeline to develop a program. Which is, in part, a huge problem within our society today, but that is another conversation for another day.

 

[The Breakerboy]

Do you expect them to be worse than a top 50 defense? lol

They're gonna take a step back but they shouldn't be bad. We had a top 40 defense in 2014 with basically just Jordan Williams, Danny O'Brien, and an out of shape Owen Williams at DT.

Randy Shannon hasn't been a DC in a while and he won't have as much talent as those Miami defenses he's had in the past, but he should be able to do something with what they've got. They might wear down late in the season, but they should basically be fresh when we get them.

He relies on the front four to get pressure.

 

[Weezer]

Some people have a problem letting the past be the past. College football is about the now. Losing to Vandy and USCe was last season. No excuses, they were losses. You can argue about reasons, but the only reason that matters, is when the game clock expired, they had more points.

This season is this season. This year, Butch needs to win. At the end of the season, no matter what we feel personally, it'll be up to the talking heads to review Butch's job performance. We can moan and complain all we want, but we don't make that decision. As the consumers, our opinion may be weighed, but Butch has all the power to protect his job. Win on the field, and all will be right in the world.

 

[rekinhavoc]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.. with the injuries, locker room drama, apparently friction among the defensive assistants, and losing O'brien and Williams, I think CBJ did a decent job of holding everything together.

And now it's coming out all the crap he has to put up with from the boosters and the UT administration? If I understood it correctly they are the reason for no S&C coach last year, would not allow him to hire one.

And still finished 9-4? He did ok by me.. Vandy and SC losses be damned.

So it wasn't a bad decision on Butch's part.

 

[OGbabyaviVol]

Where's the depth upfront for them?

I agree. I just looked at their roster to see where all the hype is coming from with their front 4. They have 14 DL on the roster, and Zuniga, Sherit, and Jefferson are the only 3 names I recognized, except for Conliffe because we recruited him. 5 of those DL are FR.

 

[OGbabyaviVol]

I recall Muschamp being dealt a similarly bad hand with injuries at Florida in 2013 and he went 4-8. Last year could have been much worse.

I thought about this a lot last year, as the injuries continued to mount. We could have easily been a 6-6 team or maybe worse with the abundance of injuries and horrible S&C.

 

[OGbabyaviVol]

People are saying QD knows the playbook better. That was in the Spring. They haven't practiced enough to suggest that this Fall. So we will see what Jones decides. After the news I just got about the Vols I don't care what he does. If he Jones fails this year it's fine. If we win big it's fine. I'm good either way. #GOVOLS

Care to enlighten us on this "news" about the Vols? The rest of your post makes me read it as Jones is gone, if he doesn't win big this year, which makes me think he has to win the East. Not sure I would agree with that.

 

[VolinArizona]

Hey, Arizona. How have you been? Haven't seen you around in a bit.

Great! Work has kept me very busy the last year.

How's the family?

 

[VolinArizona]

No trey smith is a guard until 2018 or maybe even 2019

We'll see

 

[highspeed]

I think a lot of the positive vibes around UF is due to them winning the East the last 2 years. They also have a lot returning players on offense. I agree with the consensus on here that they are being overrated though.

The devil is in the details, and I think a lot of national media types either don't have or don't take the time to consider those details. If we had stayed relatively healthy last year and won 10 or 11 regular season games, won the East, gone to the Sugar Bowl, etc., we would be getting more love right now, I'm sure. Instead, people look at last year's pre-season expectations, say we under-performed, and write us off for this year without considering the the extenuating circumstances (i.e. we were down to one scholarship DT in the SC and Vandy losses, playing 4th string LBs, etc.). Personally, I think it comes down to us and UGA for the East, and UGA's chances depend a lot whether or not Kirby is a legit head coach at the SEC level. Jury is still out on that one IMO.

For discussion sake, here is an interesting article ranking teams by the quality of their returning starters. UF is ranked 10th, UT is 14th. Bama and UGA also in the top 10. Ga Tech is 23rd.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-fo...oups-of-fbs-returning-starters-in-2017-022817