Recruiting Forum Football Talk XXXVI

[LA Vol]

Pretty sure it's $3m. $1m for each year left. 2018, 19 and 20.

It reset in the last contract and dropped to $2M after Feb/March 2017. Almost positive that's the case.

 

[jspvol76]

Need coaches to step up?

It sounded like he was referring more to Scott's play-calling, and also maybe Butch having more input.

 

[AAVFL]

That's all fine and dandy until you remember Florida and Georgia Tech are bad football teams.

I don't think they're bad teams. Bad teams are Mizzou, Indiana State, umass. Not elite but descent. Ga tech will probably finish 8-4, 9-3. Who knows with Fl we have said they will be bad for two years and each year they win the sece. Be our luck they finish 10-1 or some B.S. like that.

 

[jspvol76]

I don't think they're bad teams. Bad teams are Mizzou, Indiana State, umass. Not elite but descent. Ga tech will probably finish 8-4, 9-3. Who knows with Fl we have said they will be bad for two years and each year they win the sece. Be our luck they finish 10-1 or some B.S. like that.

UF is very bad on one side of the ball, if they get to 7 wins this years I will be surprised.

 

[Memphisvol87]

UT students planning a walk-out during the UMASS game. That could be one of the final nails in the coffin for Lyle

I sat through fulmers last year and Dooley. Knowing you didn't have the coach or the players to win is awful but I didn't leave. At least now we have the talent to win just about every game. We either turn It around or he's gone but there are only so many games in neyland as a student and I wouldn't give those up for anything.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

I seriously doubt that's what the OP was talking about.

What some people are suggesting is that we add a year to his deal but the buyout total gets negotiated down.

Nobody has suggested that an extension would come with an escalated buyout. Just another year of the same.

You've gotta think it through, though. Malzahn was extended before the 2016 season in the middle of a year on his contract. Butch would theoretically be extended after the 2017 season towards the end of a year of his contract.


Right now Butch is owed $2 million/ year left on his contract (currently 4 if you count 2017). If he is extended for one year at the end of the 2017 season and the numbers stay the same, he will be owed $2 million/ year left on his contract (4 years--2018,2019,2020,2021). So in essence, the numbers stay the same. Just with a year tacked on.


And as far as nobody suggesting an escalated buyout, I'm sure Sexton and Butch will be angling for just that (not sure if they'll have the chips on the table to get that though). They'd understand that an extension like the one Malzahn got wouldn't really make Butch any safer a year from now.

 

[VolGee4]

You say you always look at the money, but you say Butch will leave on his own? When has a coach ever quit and forfeited their buyout? He's not good enough to get an upgrade, so Butch quitting = Butch losing money = that will never happen.

It happened twice in basketball last year although the university negotiates some sort of smaller buyout to give the incentive to leave. Both Josh Pastner and Jamie Dixon had huge buyouts and weren't just going to give up that money. However, their new schools came calling with 5 year contracts, and both coaches told their old schools that they had offers but didn't necessarily have to leave. The old schools negotiated a partial buyout payment to encourage them to leave. In Pastner's case, Memphis gave him a $1 million to accept the GTech job.

It isn't something that happens all of the time, but I presume it could happen in football, too.

 

[Outofmyvolcanmind]

Defensive struggle. Field goals may win it and if that's the case my money is on the Gators.

Kentucky has an excellent kicker as well. If Kentucky establishes run, they should win the game.

 

[Outofmyvolcanmind]

Interesting. Could see this same scenario playing out with West Virginia this go around.

Would be awesome game one in 2018 if that happened.

 

[BigZiti09]

You've gotta think it through, though. Malzahn was extended before the 2016 season in the middle of a year on his contract. Butch would theoretically be extended after the 2017 season towards the end of a year of his contract.


Right now Butch is owed $2 million/ year left on his contract (currently 4 if you count 2017). If he is extended for one year at the end of the 2017 season and the numbers stay the same, he will be owed $2 million/ year left on his contract (4 years--2018,2019,2020,2021). So in essence, the numbers stay the same. Just with a year tacked on.


And as far as nobody suggesting an escalated buyout, I'm sure Sexton and Butch will be angling for just that (not sure if they'll have the chips on the table to get that though). They'd understand that an extension like the one Malzahn got wouldn't really make Butch any safer a year from now.

He is owed $2.5 m per year. Not 2.

Obviously an extension would come with another year of buyout. UT would only save money by not extending him which they have already done this past season.

Like I've been saying it will never be cheaper than it is right now.

The OP wasn't suggesting what you are. Feel pretty confident in that.

Sexton and CBJ are gonna want that year added on at the current rate. The year is what is important, not the rate. Nothing he has done has suggested anyone would consider an escalated buyout.

 

[eazyTD]

Where you said CBJ was gone.

A little of both. Butch hired Sexton for a reason and like I said, really wanted out of here after losing to Vanderbilt last season. I don't see Currie making an effort to retain him unless he wins out except for Alabama game.

 

[VolGee4]

We could trade MacIntyre for Butch. Would be hilarious given the fact Butch had an agreement to become Colorado's head coach before we poached him and they hired Mac.

Title IX issues. I doubt they go there.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

He is owed $2.5 m per year. Not 2.

Link?


Nah, jk I'm not that lazy.


Anyway, you're wrong. Here's a link to a breakdown of his contract along with a PDF of the contract itself if you wanna check it out for yourself.

https://hkm.com/football/contracts/butch-jones/

Obviously an extension would come with another year of buyout. UT would only save money by not extending him which they have already done this past season.

Like I've been saying it will never be cheaper than it is right now.

The OP wasn't suggesting what you are. Feel pretty confident in that.

Sexton and CBJ are gonna want that year added on at the current rate. The year is what is important, not the rate. Nothing he has done has suggested anyone would consider an escalated buyout.

I think we're basically arguing over semantics here.


But saying it will never be cheaper is a little disengenous because a one year contract extension with the buyout numbers kept the same means that firing him mid/post 2017 season and mid/post 2018 season would cost the exact same amount of money as far as the buyout is concerned.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

Title IX issues. I doubt they go there.

Not sure he's gonna look so great without his DC moving forward either.

 

[Kingston Vol]

Title IX issues. I doubt they go there.

I just read up on this. Yeah, I'm taking the scumbag off my wishlist. Can't have him in control.

 

[NMVol]

A little of both. Butch hired Sexton for a reason and like I said, really wanted out of here after losing to Vanderbilt last season. I don't see Currie making an effort to retain him unless he wins out except for Alabama game.

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[BigZiti09]

Link?


Nah, jk I'm not that lazy.


Anyway, you're wrong. Here's a link to a breakdown of his contract along with a PDF of the contract itself if you wanna check it out for yourself.

https://hkm.com/football/contracts/butch-jones/


I think we're basically arguing over semantics here.


But saying it will never be cheaper is a little disengenous because a one year contract extension with the buyout numbers kept the same means that firing him mid/post 2017 season and mid/post 2018 season would cost the exact same amount of money as far as the buyout is concerned.

Wrong.

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/...jones-received-500000-raise-tennessee/340432/

 

[BruinVol]

I'm not advocating anything. I'm stating what I believe will happen.

Ok. Hard to keep up with would of and should ofs

If butch goes 7-5 and is brought back like you think will happen should he get an extension?

 

[Catbone]

LWS said 2.5 per year not 2

 

[seaofORANGE22]

Ok. Hard to keep up with would of and should ofs

If butch goes 7-5 and is brought back like you think will happen should he get an extension?

I will probably cry if he actually does.

Can't imagine a more depressing scenario.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

Wrong.

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/...jones-received-500000-raise-tennessee/340432/

Woops, you're right. Contract I linked to did not feature the most current amendment to his contract.


Either way, my ultimate point still stands. A one year extension basically amounts to no raise in buyout if all the numbers are kept even (like Malzahn's was). Price of firing Butch after an extension like Malzahn's would be the same in fall 2018 as in fall 2017.

Edit: link to the contract and amendment itself for those interested


https://2michy3wy0l30d34041dt1et-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/football/wp-content/uploads/coach-contracts/lylejones-ut-employment-contract.pdf


https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2646460-Butch-Jones-Contract-Amendment-2.html

 

[Catbone]

I will probably cry if he actually does.

Can't imagine a more depressing scenario.

There will literally be riots in Knoxville and no tickets sold for 2018 if that happens

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

There will literally be riots in Knoxville and no tickets sold for 2018 if that happens

I'd want a new coach with 7-5 (maybe even with 8-4, depending on how exactly we got there). But if it's a one year punt like Malzahn's contract, I might get the strategy. Not sure the coaching pool will be quite as good this year as next year. Currie might wanna wait and see how a couple of P5 Coordinators/G5 coaches do for another season before making a move if there's no worthwhile P5 HCs he thinks he can attract.

 

[BruinVol]

I'd want a new coach with 7-5 (maybe even with 8-4, depending on how exactly we got there). But if it's a one year punt like Malzahn's contract, I might get the strategy. Not sure the coaching pool will be quite as good this year as next year. Currie might wanna wait and see how a couple of P5 Coordinators/G5 coaches do for another season before making a move if there's no worthwhile P5 HCs he thinks he can attract.

I am too lazy to look back and understand how GMs extension is different than most

Can you give me cliff notes dumbed down version?

ThAnsk

 

[InVOLuntary]

Ok. Hard to keep up with would of and should ofs

If butch goes 7-5 and is brought back like you think will happen should he get an extension?

I'm not sure. If I'm Currie, I'm say no to force Butch's hand. I realize no extension handicaps him. Butch would obviously see the writing on the wall. He'd more aggressively seek employment elsewhere. He'd most likely lower his standard of available jobs.