Recruiting Forum Off-Topic Thread II

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#8,852
#8,852
Boom! Great decision Trump. America first. Climate deal was a bad deal for America. These celebrity loons are freaking out about it tho lol
 
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#8,856
#8,856
bignewt said:
How is it bad to reduce emissions?
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We can reduce emissions without redistributing American wealth to the third world.

The Socialists want to bring everyone down to the third world level. They feel bad that we live in relative luxury while other countries live in poverty. They would rather everyone be in poverty than have some developed countries able to help the third world countries develop too.
 
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#8,858
#8,858
bignewt said:
How is it bad to reduce emissions?
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It's expensive. Corporations have too much power to ever get meaningful legislation passed to limit their emissions, so the middle class would likely end up footing most of the bill.


No thanks. There aren't clear models for how long/severe human caused climate change will be. It most likely won't be in my lifetime, so idgaf.
 
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#8,859
#8,859
Darth_Shiveman said:
It's expensive. Corporations have too much power to ever get meaningful legislation passed to limit their emissions, so the middle class would likely end up footing most of the bill.


No thanks. There aren't clear models for how long/severe human caused climate change will be. It most likely won't be in my lifetime, so idgaf.
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It won't likely be in the next several hundred years if ever. The Earth has an incredible way of regulating its temperature. That hole in the ozone layer is like a vent. We have some effect but there were climate changes long before humans.
 
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#8,860
#8,860
I honestly dont know much about the agreement but ive seen glaciers first hand, they gone. Is that humanity's fault or just mother nature...i think humans have a role. Can we reverse it? Probably not.
 
#8,861
#8,861
bignewt said:
I honestly dont know much about the agreement but ive seen glaciers first hand, they gone. Is that humanity's fault or just mother nature...i think humans have a role. Can we reverse it? Probably not.
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Bingo. We helped but the Earth goes through cycles. It has been stated that if all of the stipulations of the Paris Accords were fully implemented by all countries involved, we would be able to lower the Earth's temp by .2% of 1 degree Celsius by the year 2100. With all the money the USA would have to she'll out, I don't see a very good ROI.
 
#8,862
#8,862
EPA has said that even if all the countries are successful in accomplishing the goal of the agreement, that it would affect the climate less than 1%. The left wants to give up millions of American jobs for basically nothing. Mar Ruffalo said that's Trump has basically destroyed the world lol
 
#8,864
#8,864
Glitch said:
We can reduce emissions without redistributing American wealth to the third world.

The Socialists want to bring everyone down to the third world level. They feel bad that we live in relative luxury while other countries live in poverty. They would rather everyone be in poverty than have some developed countries able to help the third world countries develop too.
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Sorry, but this isn't well thought out. It's just demonizing a differing philosophy. It's the equivalent of saying Republicans don't care if the poor starve to death as long as they're taken care of. You're better than believing this.


How many socialists do you actually know?

I know socialists (mostly Europeans) who live in socialist countries and none of them want this. They just have a different philosophy and outlook than most Americans when it comes to personal property and the role of government.
 
#8,865
#8,865
Glitch said:
It won't likely be in the next several hundred years if ever. The Earth has an incredible way of regulating its temperature. That hole in the ozone layer is like a vent. We have some effect but there were climate changes long before humans.
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The thing that cracks me up about the whole "the earth just naturally goes through these cycles" arguments isn't that they're wrong necessarily.

It's that cycles of sudden climate change throughout earth's history have usually coincided with mass extinctions and vast changes in the types of life forms dominating the planet.
 
#8,866
#8,866
Darth_Shiveman said:
Sorry, but this isn't well thought out. It's just demonizing a differing philosophy. It's the equivalent of saying Republicans don't care if the poor starve to death as long as they're taken care of. You're better than believing this.


How many socialists do you actually know?

I know socialists (mostly Europeans) who live in socialist countries and none of them want this. They just have a different philosophy and outlook than most Americans when it comes to personal property and the role of government.
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The idea of socialism is that the government controls the production and distribution of goods and services. It goes against everything our country is founded on and millions have fought and died to protect. The true Socialists will attempt to redistribute the world's wealth until everyone is equal and dependent on the state to give them their job, their house, and everything else. The problem is, it will simply be existence. It won't be living. The Soviet Union is a great example of what Socialism can be. Rampant starvation, little to know ability to better yourself, and complete dependence on the government for whatever meager distributions they chose to give. There are other countries that have Luke warm Socialism but it is only because they are trying to slowly assimilate into the culture. They play on people's hearts and our desire to help those less fortunate than us. We all want to help but they try to make us feel bad because we have something that our neighbor across town doesn't. Well I worked for it and they didn't. Why do they deserve what I worked for and they didn't. Why do third world countries deserve American money and jobs while our country sinks deeper into debt? We won't be able to prop up the rest of the world very long if they keep sucking us dry to give handouts to the rest of the world.
 
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#8,867
#8,867
Glitch said:
The idea of socialism is that the government controls the production and distribution of goods and services. It goes against everything our country is founded on and millions have fought and died to protect. The true Socialists will attempt to redistribute the world's wealth until everyone is equal and dependent on the state to give them their job, their house, and everything else. The problem is, it will simply be existence. It won't be living. The Soviet Union is a great example of what Socialism can be. Rampant starvation, little to know ability to better yourself, and complete dependence on the government for whatever meager distributions they chose to give. There are other countries that have Luke warm Socialism but it is only because they are trying to slowly assimilate into the culture. They play on people's hearts and our desire to help those less fortunate than us. We all want to help but they try to make us feel bad because we have something that our neighbor across town doesn't. Well I worked for it and they didn't. Why do they deserve what I worked for and they didn't. Why do third world countries deserve American money and jobs while our country sinks deeper into debt? We won't be able to prop up the rest of the world very long if they keep sucking us dry to give handouts to the rest of the world.
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I think you are thinking more communism than socialsim but both suck.
 
#8,868
#8,868
Bassmaster_Vol said:
EPA has said that even if all the countries are successful in accomplishing the goal of the agreement, that it would affect the climate less than 1%. The left wants to give up millions of American jobs for basically nothing. Mar Ruffalo said that's Trump has basically destroyed the world lol
Click to expand...

Which EPA we talking about? The current one could not care less about the e.
 
#8,871
#8,871
Glitch said:
The idea of socialism is that the government controls the production and distribution of goods and services. It goes against everything our country is founded on and millions have fought and died to protect. The true Socialists will attempt to redistribute the world's wealth until everyone is equal and dependent on the state to give them their job, their house, and everything else. The problem is, it will simply be existence. It won't be living. The Soviet Union is a great example of what Socialism can be. Rampant starvation, little to know ability to better yourself, and complete dependence on the government for whatever meager distributions they chose to give. There are other countries that have Luke warm Socialism but it is only because they are trying to slowly assimilate into the culture. They play on people's hearts and our desire to help those less fortunate than us. We all want to help but they try to make us feel bad because we have something that our neighbor across town doesn't. Well I worked for it and they didn't. Why do they deserve what I worked for and they didn't. Why do third world countries deserve American money and jobs while our country sinks deeper into debt? We won't be able to prop up the rest of the world very long if they keep sucking us dry to give handouts to the rest of the world.
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This didn't answer anything in my post. Do you actually know any socialists? Because I do and none of them are anything like the boogeyman you're building up lol they're just from countries and cultures that have decided to give up a little personal freedom in some ways to their government in return for a wider social safety net and more public benefits.

None of them want to lower themselves or their country to third world level. None of them feel bad for coming from countries with high standards of living (just the opposite actually, they love giving me examples of the ways that their country has a higher standard of ______ than America or whatever neighboring country they still have a rivalry in spirit with). Most of them are from families that most would consider fairly wealthy and have been able to travel all around the world on their own dime (or that of their families, for those some of the younger ones I know).

You can say "those aren't REAL socialists! REAL socialists want x, y, and z!" But, come on man. Soviet Union style communist or socialist governments just don't exist anymore (and you can make a strong argument that the USSR was at times more of a dictatorship or Olivarchy). Even China has converted their economic system largely to one of capitalism.

There are plenty of democratic socialist countries with systems that work well for them and that are nothing like what you're describing.

I'm not advocating that we use their system. I realize that there are a lot of factors that make it feasible in smaller European countries (largely homogenous and smaller populations, smaller areas to govern, etc) and factors that make it unlikely to have success in the US (history of states rights makes it more difficult, heterogeneous population of various backgrounds and philosophies, heritage of placing a very high importance on personal independence and freedom).


But it's not 1955 anymore, Glitch. You can't just box all socialists together as bogeymen who want to make the world a third world country and for no one to be rich. It's just not the case.
 
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#8,872
#8,872
Glitch said:
Socialism is just the precursor to full grown Communism.
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This is the equivalent of calling Christianity the precursor to full grown Mormonism.

There are many different styles, and they're often evolving and changing. It's all much to vast to sum up in one dictionary definition.
 
#8,873
#8,873
Darth_Shiveman said:
This didn't answer anything in my post. Do you actually know any socialists? Because I do and none of them are anything like the boogeyman you're building up lol they're just from countries and cultures that have decided to give up a little personal freedom in some ways to their government in return for a wider social safety net and more public benefits.

None of them want to lower themselves or their country to third world level. None of them feel bad for coming from countries with high standards of living (just the opposite actually, they love giving me examples of the ways that their country has a higher standard of ______ than America or whatever neighboring country they still have a rivalry in spirit with). Most of them are from families that most would consider fairly wealthy and have been able to travel all around the world on their own dime (or that of their families, for those some of the younger ones I know).

You can say "those aren't REAL socialists! REAL socialists want x, y, and z!" But, come on man. Soviet Union style communist or socialist governments just don't exist anymore (and you can make a strong argument that the USSR was at times more of a dictatorship or Olivarchy). Even China has converted their economic system largely to one of capitalism.

There are plenty of democratic socialist countries with systems that work well for them and that are nothing like what you're describing.

I'm not advocating that we use their system. I realize that there are a lot of factors that make it feasible in smaller European countries (largely homogenous and smaller populations, smaller areas to govern, etc) and factors that make it unlikely to have success in the US (history of states rights makes it more difficult, heterogeneous population of various backgrounds and philosophies, heritage of placing a very high importance on personal independence and freedom).


But it's not 1955 anymore, Glitch. You can't just box all socialists together as bogeymen who want to make the world a third world country and for no one to be rich. It's just not the case.
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You are willing to give up your personal freedoms for social benefit. I am not. I believe that people should stand on their merits. You work hard and perform your job well and you are rewarded.

It is a slippery slope. It starts with small concessions as you mentioned. Give up a little of your personal freedom for a little "security". Then you are ask to give a little more and a little more. When they start trying to take your personal firearms then they are ready to introduce the next level of government control.

I might be a little melodramatic but you have your head in the sand and so do your "socialist" friends. I have socialists in my family. They would gladly let the government control everything if it meant they didn't have to do anything. They are the type of people that don't know how to work and earn what they deserve. They blame everyone else for what they don't have and try to make you feel bad that you have more than them.

Have you ever read "Atlas Shrugged"? The parallels between the society that Ayn Rand predicted in that book and what we are seeing in the world today are haunting.
 
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#8,875
#8,875
Darth_Shiveman said:
This is the equivalent of calling Christianity the precursor to full grown Mormonism.

There are many different styles, and they're often evolving and changing. It's all much to vast to sum up in one dictionary definition.
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That is a ridiculous comparison. Communism is the realisation of fully implemented Socialism. I'm not getting into a religious debate with you. Neither of us will be persuaded, so let's not even go there.
 
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