Recruiting Forum Off-Topic Thread II

[Darth_Shiveman]

Darth. I do understand what you are saying. The world is not black and white. There are many people that say they are Socialists that work hard, pay their bills, and generally want to make society better. However, when you get down to the core of what socialism is meant to be, it is taking from some and giving to others. Who are they going to take from? The people that work and produce. Who are they going to give it to? The people who whine and moan about the injustices of the world. Capitalism is not a perfect system either. It has just as much ability to trample the little people as Socialism. However, in a Capitalist society that provides protections against such trampling, everyone can prosper. Capitalist societies encourage innovation and invention. They encourage new ideas and new methods to increase efficiency. People are rewarded for their ideas and innovations. In a Socialist society, a true Socialist society, you are rewarded for your ability to suffer and by how little you think of your self. Well how long can I think of others if I am not able to earn a living.

There are all kinds of people dedicated to turning our world into a global community. They don't want sovereign nations anymore. They want a one world government that doles out our planets resources, not based on how much work you put in, but by how much you need.

There is a famous quote in the WWII museum in Washington, DC. and it makes my point very clearly. Folks keep saying things like you are saying.

"Oh well they are socialist but they work hard and only want the best for us."

"I don't mind giving up a little of my personal freedom if it makes our country safer."

"The rich can afford to pay more. They have lots and we have a little. They need to pay their fair share."

History repeats itself. Not exactly, but it has shown to do so countless times before. Are we going to sit around and let it happen? Are we going to let our children be brainwashed into thinking that government is the answer to all their problems? Government has its place and its purposes. It is not to provide cell phones and high speed internet to every person in the world. It is to protect our nation through the military, develop treaties and agreements with other nations, and provide services that the private sector isn't willing or able to provide.

Here is the quote. Again, you will probably think I am being melodramatic, but so did the people in this quote until it was their turn...

[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic]“In Germany they came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic]Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic]
[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic]unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I[/FONT]
[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic]didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to [/FONT][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Italic]speak up.” [/FONT]​

[/FONT]
--Pastor Martin Niemöller, 1945

Yes, you are being very melodramatic. Nobody is being brainwashed and pointing out that modern European democratic socialist governments work in a very different way than the theroretical pie-in-the-sky socialist systems envisioned by 19th and early 20th century philosophies is a far, far shot from the holocaust.

America is less conservative than in the past, but still is nowhere near electing a socialist to office. A socialist (who really, would be seen as a conservative in just about any European country)couldn't even win the primary for the more liberal of our two parties and he was running against the f***ing devil. The democratic candidate was a centrist war hawk who's attached at the hip to Wall Street, for crying out loud.

Ignorant or disingenuous arguments like this one are more likely to make socialists out of young people in this country. When they realize it's not true, they feel lied to and a natural backlash occurs. The truth is the vast, vast majority of people living in modern democratic socialist countries don't give a s*** about making "one world government" at all. You'd be hard pressed to find a Dane or a Finn who would ever consent to being a part of the same government as Swedes.

You know why they're happy with the belonging to something like the EU? Because it's in their self interest. They believe the benefits outweigh the negatives. But they still have national and cultural pride. They're not fans of countries like Greece dampening those benefits.


You keep using the "no true Scotsman" fallacy and arguing that true socialists only fit into what your personal idea of what a socialist is. But things aren't that simple.

At the risk of triggering you, it is like the equivalent of saying things like "In a Christian church, in a true Christian church, you handle venomous snakes as a test of your faith."



Also, FTR, that quote was from 1945! Their "turn" was already over! And they even talk about persecution of communists in that quote. It doesn't fit the point you're trying to make at all. The whole point of that quote is about not sitting idly by while people scapegoat and misrepresent others! Not about people having tolerant/realistic views of socialists as people, not as boogeymen.

 

[Rishvol]

I've never read any books by this author, but as a career scientist I am now intrigued by your posts contents. How does this author make you think about how the majority of scientists think?

Btw, not looking for an argument. I just enjoy seeing points of view and (civil) discussions.

He was also a career scientist and he used his writing as a way to vent because of the corruption of science. For the record I respect you for being a scientist (I'm getting my teachers license in biology) but one thing I was told by multiple professors is they hate odd numbers. They said it feels like they're "cheating" or "being lazy" (their words) so every time I see "95%" or "97%" I think that survey is made up.

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

I don't know the answers. There are hundreds of lazy pukes where I live, that will never get off the teat unless they are forced off, I also know that where I live there are hundreds of people who have been hard workers, that have been forced into poverty and need help. There are no simple answers. The low lifes use their offspring literally as a meal ticket, but you take away the ticket, and who is going to take the kids, are you, am I? I mean there are countless millions nationwide. It is sad and discouraging, and the worst thing is, most of those kids grow up to be the same kind of useless leeches.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

That is true and the more i learn about the agreement the more I am happy we are not a part of it, it holds true to my Libertarian beliefs. However if Trump had a lick of sense he would not only back out of the agreement but announce how the US is going to GO FURTHER than the agreement and do more. That would not only be tactical but beneficial to secure our leadership role in protecting the planet.

I was really hoping for that too. I thought it was telling that the CEOs that came out against Trump's decision yesterday. They could have easily said, that it is great that we are not going to be funding this wealth redistribution but we are still going to find ways to uphold the emission reduction sentiment that was the basis for the agreement. I would have liked Trump to make a statement to that affect too. I think it would have gone a long way towards earning goodwill of the environment friendly folks if he had also announced that the US would continue looking for ways to reduce our emissions while saving our country billions of dollars in fees under the Paris Agreement.

FTR, he's not TOO far from doing that. All he's done so far is signal our intention to back out, but we can't really withdraw until a few years down the road (I think 2019). He's said he'll consider not backing out if we get "fairer" treatment or more beneficial terms (i.e. Emission standards are fine and all, but we're not funding other countries to go green).


It's not REALLY a done deal yet. And it could be easily undone by the next president if Trump isn't re-elected anyway.

AND that's not to mention that the Paris convention is one of those dumb international agreements countries make that have no actual ways of sanctioning or disciplining countries who don't meet the requirements.


So in a lot of ways, this can mostly be seen as a political move for Trump in a country of people that mostly deny climate science (or, like me, just DGAF).


I'm not really sure if it's a good move for him politically or not. He could just as easily say "we're going to lead the world in this and do more than any other country," then do nothing, say he did, call the reports that he didn't "fake news," and be on his way.

 

[Glitch]

Yes, you are being very melodramatic. Nobody is being brainwashed and pointing out that modern European democratic socialist governments work in a very different way than the theroretical pie-in-the-sky socialist systems envisioned by 19th and early 20th century philosophies is a far, far shot from the holocaust.

America is less conservative than in the past, but still is nowhere near electing a socialist to office. A socialist (who really, would be seen as a conservative in just about any European country)couldn't even win the primary for the more liberal of our two parties and he was running against the f***ing devil. The democratic candidate was a centrist war hawk who's attached at the hip to Wall Street, for crying out loud.

Ignorant or disingenuous arguments like this one are more likely to make socialists out of young people in this country. When they realize it's not true, they feel lied to and a natural backlash occurs. The truth is the vast, vast majority of people living in modern democratic socialist countries don't give a s*** about making "one world government" at all. You'd be hard pressed to find a Dane or a Finn who would ever consent to being a part of the same government as Swedes.

You know why they're happy with the belonging to something like the EU? Because it's in their self interest. They believe the benefits outweigh the negatives. But they still have national and cultural pride. They're not fans of countries like Greece dampening those benefits.


You keep using the "no true Scotsman" fallacy and arguing that true socialists only fit into what your personal idea of what a socialist is. But things aren't that simple.

At the risk of triggering you, it is like the equivalent of saying things like "In a Christian church, in a true Christian church, you handle venomous snakes as a test of your faith."



Also, FTR, that quote was from 1945! Their "turn" was already over! And they even talk about persecution of communists in that quote. It doesn't fit the point you're trying to make at all. The whole point of that quote is about not sitting idly by while people scapegoat and misrepresent others! Not about people having tolerant/realistic views of socialists as people, not as boogeymen.

Let the Europeans live in their Socialist utopia then. If there are Americans that like that style of government they can certainly feel free to go join them. This country was founded to provide the opportunity for all of those that want to work hard and have a chance to succeed.

And yes, our children are being brainwashed. Look at the garbage happening on college campuses around the country. The very basic freedom of speech is being suppressed on government funded campuses because people don't like what the other side has to say. I think Hillary and Bernie are both leftist lunatics. I was not a big fan of
Trump either but he is what we have for the next few years. However, I would never prevent them from speaking their views and expressing their ideas. I have served and sacrificed for nearly twenty years giving up my own comforts and that of my family to defend their right to do so. Now, their followers are trying to tell the other side that they can't express their views. That is how it starts. The mayor of Portland is trying to shut down conservatives under the guise of public safety. That quote is more than relevant as institutions across this country are beginning to attempt to stamp out free speech. You go ahead and keep your head in the sand though. I'd rather be a little melodramatic than to totally ignore the people slowing trying to destroy my personal freedoms.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

I don't know the answers. There are hundreds of lazy pukes where I live, that will never get off the teat unless they are forced off, I also know that where I live there are hundreds of people who have been hard workers, that have been forced into poverty and need help. There are no simple answers. The low lifes use their offspring literally as a meal ticket, but you take away the ticket, and who is going to take the kids, are you, am I? I mean there are countless millions nationwide. It is sad and discouraging, and the worst thing is, most of those kids grow up to be the same kind of useless leeches.

People are just people. There are s***ty liberal leeches and s***ty conservative leeches. The liberal ones think the world owes them everything they're receiving and they shouldn't have to work for it. The conservative ones see themselves as millionaires who just haven't hit it big yet and need the government aid to get them over the top.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

Let the Europeans live in their Socialist utopia then. If there are Americans that like that style of government they can certainly feel free to go join them. This country was founded to provide the opportunity for all of those that want to work hard and have a chance to succeed.

Who called them eutopias? There are trade offs in any system of government. They see their system as doing the same thing, just in a different way.

And yes, our children are being brainwashed. Look at the garbage happening on college campuses around the country. The very basic freedom of speech is being suppressed on government funded campuses because people don't like what the other side has to say. I think Hillary and Bernie are both leftist lunatics. I was not a big fan of
Trump either but he is what we have for the next few years. However, I would never prevent them from speaking their views and expressing their ideas. I have served and sacrificed for nearly twenty years giving up my own comforts and that of my family to defend their right to do so. Now, their followers are trying to tell the other side that they can't express their views. That is how it starts. The mayor of Portland is trying to shut down conservatives under the guise of public safety. That quote is more than relevant as institutions across this country are beginning to attempt to stamp out free speech.

1. Nobody HAS to go to college.
2. There are plenty of examples of colleges that have taken stances against the dumb*ss protestors who try to shut down conservative speakers. But you don't hear about those on the news (because, well, it ISN'T news).
3. The perception of "free speech" being shut down on college campuses is overblown. It's still troubling, but completely overblown. Just look at the crazy preachers who travel around college campuses throughout the year displaying their pictures of aborted fetuses.
4. Ironically enough, the dumb*ss kids protesting Milo Yiannopoulos are also practicing free speech.
5. Mayors and local governments around the country have been finding excuses for shutting down speakers/performers they don't agree with for about as long as our country has existed. The fact that it's happening to conservatives may be new, but the fact that it's happening in and of itself isn't new at all.

You go ahead and keep your head in the sand though. I'd rather be a little melodramatic than to totally ignore the people slowing trying to destroy my personal freedoms.

lol "head in the sand"

Outside of democrats and their gun reforms, how have your "personal freedoms" been destroyed over the past 15-20 years? What can't you do now that you could then? You can make just as strong of an argument that "conservatives" like Jeff Sessions are working to destroy personal freedoms by trying to undo the work of states that have decided for themselves that they should/can legalize and regulate marijuana.

 

[bignewt]

Sessions is a little gollum that needs the soap in the sock treatment.

 

[InVOLuntary]

That is true and the more i learn about the agreement the more I am happy we are not a part of it, it holds true to my Libertarian beliefs. However if Trump had a lick of sense he would not only back out of the agreement but announce how the US is going to GO FURTHER than the agreement and do more. That would not only be tactical but beneficial to secure our leadership role in protecting the planet.

I agree with that. By saying nothing he leaves the impression that companies in this country will be allowed to polute with impunity. Which is not the case.

If he really wants to take a stand against global pollution, he should set standards for imports into this country. If you are a polluyer, your products don't come in. It's a win/win. American companies don't have to compete with foreign companies that mistreat the environment.

 

[Glitch]

Who called them eutopias? There are trade offs in any system of government. They see their system as doing the same thing, just in a different way.




1. Nobody HAS to go to college.
2. There are plenty of examples of colleges that have taken stances against the dumb*ss protestors who try to shut down conservative speakers. But you don't hear about those on the news (because, well, it ISN'T news).
3. The perception of "free speech" being shut down on college campuses is overblown. It's still troubling, but completely overblown. Just look at the crazy preachers who travel around college campuses throughout the year displaying their pictures of aborted fetuses.
4. Ironically enough, the dumb*ss kids protesting Milo Yiannopoulos are also practicing free speech.
5. Mayors and local governments around the country have been finding excuses for shutting down speakers/performers they don't agree with for about as long as our country has existed. The fact that it's happening to conservatives may be new, but the fact that it's happening in and of itself isn't new at all.




lol "head in the sand"

Outside of democrats and their gun reforms, how have your "personal freedoms" been destroyed over the past 15-20 years? What can't you do now that you could then? You can make just as strong of an argument that "conservatives" like Jeff Sessions are working to destroy personal freedoms by trying to undo the work of states that have decided for themselves that they should/can legalize and regulate marijuana.

College has become almost mandatory and it has been made so by politicians who claim that going to college is among the unalienable rights that were the basis for the Declaration of Independence. Everything is a right according to the left. Going to college isn't for everyone. You shouldn't have to go to college to do many jobs but because it has become a "right" you basically have to go. Why, pray tell, would the left want as many people to go to college as possible? Sure they say they want us to be an educated society and I think that is a fine thing. However, it is also a chance for liberal minded professors to further indoctrinate impressionable children. Kids in college are still learning who they are and what they want to believe. College should be a place where they can hear all sides of the arguments and choose for themselves. However, many of them can't see through the liberal bologna that we are socially responsible for the rest of the world. That we need to send mountains of aid money to all of these countries that hate us because they are just poor and unfortunate souls. I want to help those people too, but not at the expense of the American way of life and not at the expense of our freedoms.

The only reason we haven't lost our freedoms is because people recognize what is going on and are fighting it. The left wants to take our firearms away even though that is a right guaranteed in the Constitution. The left cries foul whenever they feel their freedom of speech is threatened but don't blink an eye when a conservative's same freedom is trampled. Those kids protesting the conservative speakers have the right to PEACEABLY assemble. They have the right to express their dislike of the conservative viewpoint. They DO NOT, however, have the right to violently go about shutting down another's freedom of speech. They DO NOT, however, have the right to assault others that disagree with them.

We have been through the abortion debate too. I cannot be in favor of it, but it is legal and if someone wants to get an abortion, they should not be stopped. However, showing young women that are on the fence what an aborted fetus looks like is not oppressing their free speech. It is showing them the very ugly side of abortion that they don't learn about from Planned Parenthood. Abortions should not be funded with government money. I would rather fund vasectomies or tubal ligations than abortions. Those would be a one time cost and would not have the severe emotional damage that comes years after some abortions when women realize what they actually did.

Free speech is free speech. If a person wants to come to town and give a speech, they should be allowed. If nobody in the town shows up then the person should take the hint. However, as long as one person wants to hear that speech then that person should have the right to do so. It doesn't matter to me if it is left or right. If the Communist Party wants to show up and give a speech then they should be able to as long as one person wants to hear it. The opposing side has the right to show up and express their displeasure at the event but they don't have the right to stop it.

I am also a strong believer in states rights. I think we have way to many federal laws that dictate how the states should run their own business. If Colorado and all the other states want to legalize marijuana then they should have that right. I believe Arizona recently voted the marijuana measure down. They have that right too. I don't think the federal government should dictate that or many other things. They should fund the military and negotiate treaties and trade agreements with other nations. That is basically it. The 10th Amendment guarantees that everything not expressly granted to the federal government is reserved for the states. The federal government has slowly but surely over reached its mandate and now we are seeing the effects. We can either fight to turn it back to what our founding fathers envisioned or we can become the Socialist state that allows the federal government to dictate every aspect of our lives.

 

[InVOLuntary]

All I know is that the most successful country in mankind's history is the US of A and it was built on a capitalistic society not a socialism or communism. While countless socialistic and communistic societies have floundered or limped along, The USA has built a country like never witnessed before. The further we drift toward socialism, the more we'll just settle back into mediocrity. JMO

 

[InVOLuntary]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5WBAcZDQKc&feature=youtu.be&app=desktop

Borrowed this from someone in the Political Forum. Unbelievable how insightful Paul Harvey was. I miss his radio spots.

 

[Glitch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5WBAcZDQKc&feature=youtu.be&app=desktop

Borrowed this from someone in the Political Forum. Unbelievable how insightful Paul Harvey was. I miss his radio spots.

Ayn Rand said the same thing in "Atlas Shrugged" a decade before that in 1957. It is coming true before our eyes. Darth doesn't believe in God or the devil so it doesn't make sense to him.

Jesus said that many would not see or hear the truth. That their hearts would be closed. The devil is at work every day in this world and to those that are willing to see it, it is obvious. Society beckons us to be like them. To go along and be "normal". Not me and I will teach my children that it may not be the socially expedient thing to do but following God's teaching is far better in the long run than being considered "normal" by the world around us. I pray that more people begin to see the dire situation we find ourselves in and turn to Christ. He asks nothing except that we love others and love Him. We can place our burdens on him and lighten our load to do good for those around us. He doesn't ask that we feel guilty for our success but only that we use the blessings He gives us to bless others. My definition of blessing someone is showing them the love of Jesus and the government welfare programs do not show the love of Jesus. They try to substitute Jesus with a man made institution.

Great find. Paul Harvey was right on target.

 

[bignewt]

All I know is that the most successful country in mankind's history is the US of A and it was built on a capitalistic society not a socialism or communism. While countless socialistic and communistic societies have floundered or limped along, The USA has built a country like never witnessed before. The further we drift toward socialism, the more we'll just settle back into mediocrity. JMO

There were some pretty successful empires in the history of the world that dwarf ours...

 

[bignewt]

Ayn Rand said the same thing in "Atlas Shrugged" a decade before that in 1957. It is coming true before our eyes. Darth doesn't believe in God or the devil so it doesn't make sense to him.

Jesus said that many would not see or hear the truth. That their hearts would be closed. The devil is at work every day in this world and to those that are willing to see it, it is obvious. Society beckons us to be like them. To go along and be "normal". Not me and I will teach my children that it may not be the socially expedient thing to do but following God's teaching is far better in the long run than being considered "normal" by the world around us. I pray that more people begin to see the dire situation we find ourselves in and turn to Christ. He asks nothing except that we love others and love Him. We can place our burdens on him and lighten our load to do good for those around us. He doesn't ask that we feel guilty for our success but only that we use the blessings He gives us to bless others. My definition of blessing someone is showing them the love of Jesus and the government welfare programs do not show the love of Jesus. They try to substitute Jesus with a man made institution.

Great find. Paul Harvey was right on target.

Or just follow the golden rule and be an individual thinker.

 

[Rishvol]

Or just follow the golden rule and be an individual thinker.

Oh so Matthew 7:12 cool

 

[Glitch]

There were some pretty successful empires in the history of the world that dwarf ours...

They were generally ruled through fear of a king or emperor. You can argue that the freedom that people in this country enjoy dwarves any of those empires because the people are free and we are able to accomplish the amazing things we are accomplishing because free thought and innovation are encouraged.

They may have bigger empires and lasted longer than we have but I say ours is the best country in history because we are free. Anyone can succeed in our country if they are willing to work hard. Yes. Anyone. Many choose not to and then blame others. Some have a leg to stand on. Most just don't want to try.

 

[Glitch]

Or just follow the golden rule and be an individual thinker.

You can do that and still follow Jesus.

 

[bignewt]

You can do that and still follow Jesus.

Of course just saying you don't have to be religious to live a "good" life.

 

[bignewt]

They were generally ruled through fear of a king or emperor. You can argue that the freedom that people in this country enjoy dwarves any of those empires because the people are free and we are able to accomplish the amazing things we are accomplishing because free thought and innovation are encouraged.

They may have bigger empires and lasted longer than we have but I say ours is the best country in history because we are free. Anyone can succeed in our country if they are willing to work hard. Yes. Anyone. Many choose not to and then blame others. Some have a leg to stand on. Most just don't want to try.

Them Greeks that invented democracy had it going on for quite a while.

 

[Catbone]

Trump offered to renegotiate the deal. If they don't accept, they clearly don't really care about the environment. $$$

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

Trump offered to renegotiate the deal. If they don't accept, they clearly don't really care about the environment. $$$

Funny how the liberal media and the celebrity loons are ignoring the fact that Trump is wanting to renegotiate the deal

 

[Glitch]

Them Greeks that invented democracy had it going on for quite a while.

They also buggered young boys.

 

[bignewt]

They also buggered young boys.

Yeah none of that goes on now. :hi:

 

[Rishvol]

Yeah none of that goes on now. :hi:

Taking about pizzagate