Recruiting Forum Off Topic Thread III

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#11,127
#11,127
bignewt said:
Well yes as the story goes. He came for those that were in his sphere of influence and for those that chose to believe he was indeed the messiah. Kinda sucks when your messiah gets crucified but hey, that's the Jewish lot I guess. Of course they got a get out of jail free card:

“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27 And this is[ae] my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”[af]

They are set. Guess they get different rules than the gentiles. My bad.
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They aren't set. Many will face the judgment from God for rejecting their Messiah. But what you are talking about is grace. Without God's grace, we would all face His judgment. It is amazing that the very thing that I give Him thanks for every day has been a subject of derision for Him on now two occasions in here today, and that is His undeserved love that He gives to those who receive Him. Without that, we would have no hope.

Oh, and their Messiah being crucified was so that He could bear the curse of their violating the law. If He remained dead, that would have been terrible. But since He rose, He proved that He is the Messiah, His sacrifice had been accepted, and thus had they turned to Him in faith, they would've been saved.
 
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#11,129
#11,129
titansvolsfaninga said:
there is no flexibility at all. He's built this house of "truths", and if one truth is false, everything will come crashing down.
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this. people in general are not to be trusted. and while i respect Bass's position and belieft structure, the one thing i've never been able to reconcile is, while i believe in God and Jesus Christ, everything we know about it has come from the writings or speaches of men.

and it's been interpreted over thousands of years by other men. and taught by other men. the reason we have so many denominations of the christian faith is because of man's interpreations of 'the word' and the differences men wound up having with the prevailing christian wisdom of the time.....sometimes it was for good reason, sometimes not, and yet for some, it just isn't what suited them. and all of them believe their interpretation is correct.

and they'll all tell you that it's not an interpretation, but the word of God, and it's infaliable. then there's all the other religions of the world, who the most devout believe similarly about their belief structures. and they believe that the other religions got it wrong.

so i always come back to either everyone's right, or everyone's wrong, and Bass's pancake batter analogy aside, i doubt seriously the subjects of those comparisons would agree with the analogy that was made. cause in the eyes of those most devout, most rigid in their belief structure, there's definitley no room for the other guy being right, in any way shape or form. so, we move to everyone's wrong. i mean you have radical muslims that believe so devoutly in what they've been taught, they'll strap a bomb to their chest to make their point. had the christian crusades. you had nazis....

which is why there's been more war and corruption in the name of religion than anything else in our world's history. it's why it's used as a devisive tool in politics today in our country.

it's a tool used to divide people. and you can see it being played out here in this thread. it's really sad, when in general, the whole point is simply to be good to one another, be charitable, and treat people like you'd expect to be treated.

the rest...........well, how much do you trust "people" to get this big a thing right??? really?

all that said, religion can be good, if sought out for the right reason.
 
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#11,130
#11,130
Devo182 said:
I just would love to see a man trying to herd a couple lions, which I guess are in the middle east somehow, by this poor guy, while the lions are surrounded by "food", etc. The whole routine involved is somewhere between fascinating and comical.
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Only if you have an unbiblical worldview. If God is sovereign enough to send all of the animals to Noah to place on the ark, do you not think that He is sovereign enough to control them so that they do not attack people or other animals?

We believe in God, folks. Nobody is saying this happens naturally. It's a miracle, and since there is a God, a miracle for Him is no problem. That's the biblical worldview. So you can say, hey, Jonah wouldn't survive three days in a big fish. Okay, but it's a miracle. No different than Jesus healing the blind man. Blind men aren't healed. that's a miracle. In a naturalistic worldview that doesn't make since. But with a biblical worldview, it's no problem.

I mean, people have such a problem with the ark and the flood. Hello, we believe that God spoke everything into existence and you're telling me that getting animals safely onto a boat is too hard for Him?
 
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#11,131
#11,131
InstrumentalVol said:
Just so everyone knows this isn't even debatable. Evolution is as fact as gravity is and no amount of Creationism will change that. Thank GOD (irony) people who dont recognize the science aren't in charge of teaching our children this nonsense.
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That's a powerful religious view you have there.
 
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#11,132
#11,132
Bassmaster_Vol said:
Only one false. That is a rejection of Christ. You can disagree with me on many other subjects and nothing crashes. Disagree on the person and work of Christ, and yes, everything false. Because it all stands on Him. I'm not sure why that's difficult to see. He's either the only way or He's not a way at all.
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Bass, what do you think happens to all these billions of people who do not believe in Christ in the exact way you describe?
 
#11,136
#11,136
jakez4ut said:
this. people in general are not to be trusted. and while i respect Bass's position and belieft structure, the one thing i've never been able to reconcile is, while i believe in God and Jesus Christ, everything we know about it has come from the writings or speaches of men.

and it's been interpreted over thousands of years by other men. and taught by other men. the reason we have so many denominations of the christian faith is because of man's interpreations of 'the word' and the differences men wound up having with the prevailing christian wisdom of the time.....sometimes it was for good reason, sometimes not, and yet for some, it just isn't what suited them. and all of them believe their interpretation is correct.

and they'll all tell you that it's not an interpretation, but the word of God, and it's infaliable. then there's all the other religions of the world, who the most devout believe similarly about their belief structures. and they believe that the other religions got it wrong.

so i always come back to either everyone's right, or everyone's wrong, and Bass's pancake batter analogy aside, i doubt seriously the subjects of those comparisons would agree with the analogy that was made. cause in the eyes of those most devout, most rigid in their belief structure, there's definitley no room for the other guy being right, in any way shape or form. so, we move to everyone's wrong. i mean you have radical muslims that believe so devoutly in what they've been taught, they'll strap a bomb to their chest to make their point. had the christian crusades. you had nazis....

which is why there's been more war and corruption in the name of religion than anything else in our world's history. it's why it's used as a devisive tool in politics today in our country.

it's a tool used to divide people. and you can see it being played out here in this thread. it's really sad, when in general, the whole point is simply to be good to one another, be charitable, and treat people like you'd expect to be treated.

the rest...........well, how much do you trust "people" to get this big a thing right??? really?

all that said, religion can be good, if sought out for the right reason.
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Yes, the reason we have so many denominations is because of our interpretations. These interpretations can be wrong. But orthodoxy has been present since the foundation of the church. Who cares if I disagree with my neighbor about baptism or eschatology.

But the Bible is very clear on the gospel. So while we can have different interpretations that lead to different view points, how do you have a different interpretation of "I am the Way" "If you do not believe in Me you are condemned" "He who has the Son has life, he who does not have the Son does not have life", or "There is no other name given among men whereby we would be saved". These are not difficult to interpret.

The words of men differently interpreted argument is tired. If you interpret those words concerning the gospel differently, its because you want to. Im sorry, but that's just reality. Jesus said I am the only way. The only reason anyone would interpret that to mean anything different is because they don't accept what He said.

The using the extreme of nazis and jihadists and crusaders is also tired. These are the types of arguments that have no place in a debate such as this. They are just red herrings.
 
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#11,138
#11,138
bluegrasser said:
Bass, what do you think happens to all these billions of people who do not believe in Christ in the exact way you describe?
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"The exact way that I describe" means nothing. It's the way that He said Himself, and His apostles whom He appointed taught. Those who reject Christ will be judged by Him. That's His words. "The Son of Man will send His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth" Matthew 13:41-42. If you don't like that, that has nothing to do with me. That is what He taught. So if you reject that, then you are rejecting Him. That is the point that I have been making in here today.
 
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#11,139
#11,139
Bassmaster_Vol said:
Yes, the reason we have so many denominations is because of our interpretations. These interpretations can be wrong. But orthodoxy has been present since the foundation of the church. Who cares if I disagree with my neighbor about baptism or eschatology.

But the Bible is very clear on the gospel. So while we can have different interpretations that lead to different view points, how do you have a different interpretation of "I am the Way" "If you do not believe in Me you are condemned" "He who has the Son has life, he who does not have the Son does not have life", or "There is no other name given among men whereby we would be saved". These are not difficult to interpret.

The words of men differently interpreted argument is tired. If you interpret those words concerning the gospel differently, its because you want to. Im sorry, but that's just reality. Jesus said I am the only way. The only reason anyone would interpret that to mean anything different is because they don't accept what He said.

The using the extreme of nazis and jihadists and crusaders is also tired. These are the types of arguments that have no place in a debate such as this. They are just red herrings.
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Hey we are all descended from Noah so let's be cool.
 
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#11,140
#11,140
InstrumentalVol said:
Im clearly being facetious. I genuinely cannot believe there are people who think their book is so right they have to impact the education of children on a national scale. Its pathetic.
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And yet you listen to men who subscribe to a particular world view from which they draw all of their interpretations of the world around them, and you allow them to use their books and the books of others like them to teach your children. Pathetic.
 
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#11,144
#11,144
Bassmaster_Vol said:
And yet you listen to men who subscribe to a particular world view from which they draw all of their interpretations of the world around them, and you allow them to use their books and the books of others like them to teach your children. Pathetic.
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Yeah bud I think Id rather let scientists & scholars who have studied these fields their entire lives dictate the advancement of our understanding of the world instead of a 2000 year old book that claims a talking snake told two humans to eat an apple.
 
#11,145
#11,145
Bassmaster_Vol said:
I was talking about his commitment to evolution which is completely and totally unproven, and, in many ways, impossible.
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The Bible does not talk about dinosaurs, but we know they existed. This is a fact.
We also know that there are books of the Bible that were left out for some reason or the other. You can still believe in GOD and question things that are presented to you.
 
#11,146
#11,146
Bassmaster_Vol said:
I was talking about his commitment to evolution which is completely and totally unproven, and, in many ways, impossible.
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This is just laughable. Go watch a 5 minute YouTube video about evolution that they show 9 year olds in school and youll understand. Are you kidding? "Which is completely and totally unproven?"

You have made numerous statements to people saying they just dont want to see the truth today & youre literally uneducated on the most basic of scientific pillars & because of your religiosity you almost seem to find pride in being ignorant. Damn glad youre here rambling with us on VN and not impacting laws with your nonsense. Are you trying to make some Matt Slick esque Christian Apologetics nonsense? I genuinely dont get how you can conflate the science of evolution with asking about morality (below)
 
#11,147
#11,147
Bassmaster_Vol said:
Yes, the reason we have so many denominations is because of our interpretations. These interpretations can be wrong. But orthodoxy has been present since the foundation of the church. Who cares if I disagree with my neighbor about baptism or eschatology.

But the Bible is very clear on the gospel. So while we can have different interpretations that lead to different view points, how do you have a different interpretation of "I am the Way" "If you do not believe in Me you are condemned" "He who has the Son has life, he who does not have the Son does not have life", or "There is no other name given among men whereby we would be saved". These are not difficult to interpret.

The words of men differently interpreted argument is tired. If you interpret those words concerning the gospel differently, its because you want to. Im sorry, but that's just reality. Jesus said I am the only way. The only reason anyone would interpret that to mean anything different is because they don't accept what He said.

The using the extreme of nazis and jihadists and crusaders is also tired. These are the types of arguments that have no place in a debate such as this. They are just red herrings.
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sure, they're red herrings, but they're certainly relevant when you discuss "faith". your faith tells you what you've been saying in this thread all day. you believe it 100%. you've stated these things are "truths" and are "infaliable"....that's a dangerous mentality imo. now, yours don't result in genocide like my red herrings, but, the mentality is basically the same (what i've been taught to beleive is the ONLY way). it's devisive by design.

no different than the nazi, jihadist or crusader believed in what they were doing 100%.

which brings me to point about infalibility. i don't think anything that man has written or taught on the subject of religion is infalible. in fact, i think it should be poked and prodded as much as possible.

because man's track record for interpretation is flawed at best, and history has certainly shown us that to be one truth we could probably agree on.
 
#11,148
#11,148
benholt06 said:
It's impossible for your faith to accommodate the idea.
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It's impossible for his faith to accommodate the idea that God is the creator of all things. We can do this all day. We are both committed to our worldview which shape the way we interpret the evidence. Who's worldview makes sense?

That's when we can begin to look at what makes sense of the world, the order of the world, the design of the world, where does personality come from, objective moral values, etc. etc. evolution cannot explain these things.
 
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#11,149
#11,149
InstrumentalVol said:
Yeah bud I think Id rather let scientists & scholars who have studied these fields their entire lives dictate the advancement of our understanding of the world instead of a 2000 year old book that claims a talking snake told two humans to eat an apple.
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I'd rather listen to God Himself, who created the world, and knows exactly where we came from, than to listen to arrogant and fallible men come up with theories, with a desire to explain creation apart from God, teach me things about the world. Especially fairy tells like the entire universe exploding uncaused, out of nothing, into the perfect order that we see or birds coming dinosaurs. Talk about unbelievable.
 
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#11,150
#11,150
Is Jesus God?

Would God in the flesh simply be God saying that he is the way? And if God is the way wouldn't that leave open the earlier point that most all religions believe in a single God...
 
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