Recruiting Forum Off Topic Thread III

[Ulysees E. McGill]

I get what you are saying. I have struggled with things in the Bible as well. The creation in seven days is the first example that many people bring up. However, it takes removing yourself from limited human thinking and trying to view the creation story from the viewpoint of an infinite being to whom time doesn't matter. God created time, so our construct of time does not apply to God. So maybe when the creation story was recorded, God inspired the writers to write what they wrote because He knew we would never comprehend how much time had truly passed within the time construct to actually bring the earth to a point that it was ready for plants and animals. It is awe inspiring to me to even think about. I understand where you are coming from though. I pray that if you are even slightly open to the idea of God and Jesus's sacrifice for you that He will reveal the truth to you in a way that is best suited for you to understand.

Beautifully said

 

[Devo182]

I've always wanted to simply know how a record/tape works and how the hell we even figured those things out. I mean...how the hell can a needle scratching along on a ridged plastic surface then be turned into Aretha freakin Franklin burping out magnanimous tunes over the speaker?? It is still mindblowing to me and that technology is old by modern standards.

Somehow CDs/DVDs (digital) makes much more sense to me, since actual data (1s and 0s) are being transmitted. As a lifelong programmer, that I get. But analog is some weird shiz to my brain.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

I think people also have to understand that God does not exist on the same plane of existence as everything else. He exists outside of time, hence the omniscience. We try to place human limitations on a being that has no limits. We try to make God human and that in turn makes us question God, because we as humans are extremely limited and if we place human characteristics on God then He must be limited too. However, if God is humanesque then why would He be worthy of our praise and worship? He is worthy of our praise and worship because he is so much more powerful and incredible than our limited mortal imaginations can fathom. If you allow yourself to stop putting limits on what God might be capable of, it totally changes how you see God and the story of this earth that He created.

Or he could easily just be some sort of cosmically powerful being far beyond our comprehension who just likes creating things to f*** with them.

If he exists and is beyond our comprehension, he could just as easily be malevolent or apathetic as he could be benevolent. There’s no real reason to assume one option over the other. That’s where the whole faith thing comes in, right? If it was reasonable, it wouldn’t require faith and everybody would more less follow along.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

Basically skipped the entire debate but y'all discussing "young Earth" dinosaur theories or whatever it's called?

If so, I try to skip the debatable stuff. Earth accumulates at a certain rate and barring erosion prone areas etc, there's just certain depths that different fossils are found at. Some argue what that age is but for certain, no disaster separated human and other more modern fossils from prehistoric ones.
They're not at the same depths naturally and no way a catastrophe layered them in order.

The exact age can be debated but I don't think the lack of cohabitation should be.

Build up of stone and dirt are fairly reliable and "deeper is older" is both basic and hard to argue against. It would take some fantastical tales to explain away the obvious separation in undisturbed areas, imo.

My take anyway and hope I didn't offend anyone. Like I said, didn't read through.

Tectonic shifts have to be taken into account, though. Just because one section of earth is buried deeper down nowadays doesn’t necessarily mean it is older than what’s above it (the opposite also doesn’t necessarily follow).

Plate movements can force one layer of earth beneath another.

 

[Devo182]

Same. The idea of being limited in exploration by the speed of light just makes me angry lol.

Yup and if wormholes/bending space-time, etc is all nothing but theory or impractical for material objects...we will never even make it to the next nearest star out of our entire galaxy, 1 galaxy among millions in our supercluster, of which is just 1 supercluster among millions of others. In earth terms, we won't even leave our own bedroom, ever. There is something sobering and sad about that.

 

[SweetasSoda]

I've always wanted to simply know how a record/tape works and how the hell we even figured those things out. I mean...how the hell can a needle scratching along on a ridged plastic surface then be turned into Aretha freakin Franklin burping out magnanimous tunes over the speaker?? It is still mindblowing to me and that technology is old by modern standards.

Somehow CDs/DVDs (digital) makes much more sense to me, since actual data (1s and 0s) are being transmitted. As a lifelong programmer, that I get. But analog is some weird shiz to my brain.

The aliens at Area 51 showed us how to do it.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

I get what you are saying. I have struggled with things in the Bible as well. The creation in seven days is the first example that many people bring up. However, it takes removing yourself from limited human thinking and trying to view the creation story from the viewpoint of an infinite being to whom time doesn't matter. God created time, so our construct of time does not apply to God. So maybe when the creation story was recorded, God inspired the writers to write what they wrote because He knew we would never comprehend how much time had truly passed within the time construct to actually bring the earth to a point that it was ready for plants and animals. It is awe inspiring to me to even think about. I understand where you are coming from though. I pray that if you are even slightly open to the idea of God and Jesus's sacrifice for you that He will reveal the truth to you in a way that is best suited for you to understand.

If Christianity is true, then this is almost certainly the explanation for the whole “creation in 7 days thing.”

It also completely undermines fundamentalist beliefs that the Bible is literally true and opens up the door to conversations of what is exaggeration/parable/fairy tale meant to be moral lessons for the masses.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

As opposed to the ones writing those stories today trying to explain everything. I agree our brains don't comprehend the universe much at all.

I agree with the basic premise of this point that the human mind nowadays is no more inherently advance or clever than past humans (the opposite might even be true since we live in enough luxury to not have to hone certain intellectual skills anymore).

However, comparing Bronze Age holy men trying to explain the universe to scientists who’ve spent their lives studying, revising hypotheses, and running experiments to accomplish enormous feats such as mapping the human genome isn’t a great analogy. We’re just lucky to stand on the shoulders of giants and benefit from thousands of years of accumulated knowledge (and we still get s*** dead wrong all the time lol)

 

[chargervol]

Tectonic shifts have to be taken into account, though. Just because one section of earth is buried deeper down nowadays doesn’t necessarily mean it is older than what’s above it (the opposite also doesn’t necessarily follow).

Plate movements can force one layer of earth beneath another.

In every area?
And they're still separated.. You're theory doesn't put them together, it just suggests that dinosaurs are newer than humans.

 

[Jackcrevol]

I am fine in the woods. But ain't no way I am making multiple trips smelling like a fresh kill thru mountain lion territory carrying slabs of meat. They ain't nothing to eff with.

Just saying

Why you have a sidearm big enough to read 'peacemaker' on the side.

Mtn Lion accidents are bad, and freakish.

Grizzly attacks on the other hand. There's no doubt it was a Grizz.

Saw a Grizz swipe at a bumper on a drive from Lake YNP to Cody. He knocked the bumper onto the ground.

 

[InVOLuntary]

I agree with the basic premise of this point that the human mind nowadays is no more inherently advance or clever than past humans (the opposite might even be true since we live in enough luxury to not have to hone certain intellectual skills anymore).

However, comparing Bronze Age holy men trying to explain the universe to scientists who’ve spent their lives studying, revising hypotheses, and running experiments to accomplish enormous feats such as mapping the human genome isn’t a great analogy. We’re just lucky to stand on the shoulders of giants and benefit from thousands of years of accumulated knowledge (and we still get s*** dead wrong all the time lol)

That wasn't really my point, comparing bronze age holy men and scientist of today. My point was more of a broad sense in that we're still comparing faith with theory.

 

[MikeVol44]

The funny thing is that the reasons you are such a strong believer are the same reasons it's so difficult for me to believe. I just see all of this is incredibly complicated and vast world of ours and realize that our brains are too small and underdeveloped to comprehend the universe and everything involved. So it makes more sense to my brain that a couple thousand years ago some folks wrote these stories to "make sense" of the world and make people comforted. It just seems too simple, easy and convenient to be the actual truth. But maybe it is.

You're not alone. However, the historical facts are out there. Most folks simply do not take the time to actually investigate for themselves.
I would humbly encourage you to investigate those "stories" for yourself. Have you actually read the New Testament for yourself?

There are tests that historians use to evaluate the authenticity and validity of ancient texts of literature.
If you believe that Julius Caesar/Marc Antony/Cleopatra actually lived and breathed--you do so by FAITH in those written historical records.
(I am using "you" generically to represent all people, not you personally).

Their existence cannot be proven by the scientific method because it requires experimental OBSERVATIONS that are reproducible.

There's more objective literary evidence supporting the validity of the Bible as a legitimate and reliable historical record than any other
piece of ancient literature. And it's not even close. Take the time to check it out for yourself.

Concerning the content of the Bible--it ALL HINGES on the promise of God recorded in Genesis 3:15 concerning the Seed of the Woman.

The "Seed of the Woman" became the promised "Seed of Abraham"--who was further described in the Old Testament to be the Seed (descendent) of King David.
The Bible reveals this Son to be none other than Jesus of Nazareth, the Son of Mary who conceived Him while still a virgin betrothed to Joseph. Both Mary and
Joseph were descendants of King David.

Jesus of Nazareth was an actual man who lived, breathed, walked, talked, taught, healed, loved, was hated, crucified, died, buried, and rose again from the dead
according to the historical records extant on the earth in the Bible and in extra-biblical records.

Napolean was quoted as saying:

"Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne, and I have founded empires. But on what did we rest the creations of our genius? Upon force.
Jesus Christ founded his empire upon love; and at this hour millions of men would die for him."

Jesus claimed to be the God-Man who came from heaven, returned to heaven, and promised to come again some day back to the Earth.
He claimed that His Father, God, overlooked the times of human ignorance and was now proclaiming to all men everywhere to repent and receive Eternal life as a
Heavenly gift of God's Grace through faith in Jesus and His Divine work of Redemption.

That's good news for a sinner like me.....

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

In every area?
And they're still separated.. You're theory doesn't put them together, it just suggests that dinosaurs are newer than humans.

I wouldn’t call it “my theory” and I wasn’t trying to put them together. Just saying that one fossil being deeper down in the earth than another doesn’t necessarily make it older. Especially if it’s in an area with a history of frequent tectonic activity.

 

[benholt06]

You're not alone. However, the historical facts are out there. Most folks simply do not take the time to actually investigate for themselves.
I would humbly encourage you to investigate those "stories" for yourself. Have you actually read the New Testament for yourself?

There are tests that historians use to evaluate the authenticity and validity of ancient texts of literature.
If you believe that Julius Caesar/Marc Antony/Cleopatra actually lived and breathed--you do so by FAITH in those written historical records.
(I am using "you" generically to represent all people, not you personally).

Their existence cannot be proven by the scientific method because it requires experimental OBSERVATIONS that are reproducible.

There's more objective literary evidence supporting the validity of the Bible as a legitimate and reliable historical record than any other
piece of ancient literature. And it's not even close. Take the time to check it out for yourself.

Concerning the content of the Bible--it ALL HINGES on the promise of God recorded in Genesis 3:15 concerning the Seed of the Woman.

The "Seed of the Woman" became the promised "Seed of Abraham"--who was further described in the Old Testament to be the Seed (descendent) of King David.
The Bible reveals this Son to be none other than Jesus of Nazareth, the Son of Mary who conceived Him while still a virgin betrothed to Joseph. Both Mary and
Joseph were descendants of King David.

Jesus of Nazareth was an actual man who lived, breathed, walked, talked, taught, healed, loved, was hated, crucified, died, buried, and rose again from the dead
according to the historical records extant on the earth in the Bible and in extra-biblical records.

Napolean was quoted as saying:

"Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne, and I have founded empires. But on what did we rest the creations of our genius? Upon force.
Jesus Christ founded his empire upon love; and at this hour millions of men would die for him."

Jesus claimed to be the God-Man who came from heaven, returned to heaven, and promised to come again some day back to the Earth.
He claimed that His Father, God, overlooked the times of human ignorance and was now proclaiming to all men everywhere to repent and receive Eternal life as a
Heavenly gift of God's Grace through faith in Jesus and His Divine work of Redemption.

That's good news for a sinner like me.....

You're confusing history with science. Most of the main characters in the New Testament are exclusive to it.

Historians come to a consensus that the people you mentioned exist when they appear in surviving sources over and over, from different cultures and different perspectives.

We're at a point in our society where folks are trying to make facts that hold up to academic process subjective, and it's dangerous.

It's cool that you have your faith, but it's faith, and history is history. Far from infallible but a much more evidence-based discipline.

 

[chargervol]

I wouldn’t call it “my theory” and I wasn’t trying to put them together. Just saying that one fossil being deeper down in the earth than another doesn’t necessarily make it older. Especially if it’s in an area with a history of frequent tectonic activity.

Subduction? Yes, wherever a tectonic plate has undergone subduction or if a volcano or massive quake has tossed things around.

But as I put it originally - with erosion etc, it's a solid bet on 'undisturbed' ground.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

Subduction? Yes, wherever a tectonic plate has undergone subduction or if a volcano or massive quake has tossed things around.

But as I put it originally - with erosion etc, it's a solid bet on 'undisturbed' ground.

We’re not on opposite sides of the argument here. Was trying to add to what you were saying, not contradict it.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

You're confusing history with science. Most of the main characters in the New Testament are exclusive to it.

Historians come to a consensus that the people you mentioned exist when they appear in surviving sources over and over, from different cultures and different perspectives.

We're at a point in our society where folks are trying to make facts that hold up to academic process subjective, and it's dangerous.

It's cool that you have your faith, but it's faith, and history is history. Far from infallible but a much more evidence-based discipline.

Physical evidence has to be taken into account too. And there’s a lot of physical evidence that goes against OT historical accounts.

 

[Jackcrevol]

You're confusing history with science. Most of the main characters in the New Testament are exclusive to it.

Historians come to a consensus that the people you mentioned exist when they appear in surviving sources over and over, from different cultures and different perspectives.

We're at a point in our society where folks are trying to make facts that hold up to academic process subjective, and it's dangerous.

It's cool that you have your faith, but it's faith, and history is history. Far from infallible but a much more evidence-based discipline.

Faith is just that, the defining difference. You choose to have it, or you don't. Either way it's up to you, that's free will isn't it?

When i was younger, i read the old testament - as well as companion historical non fiction. the parallel between what was foreshadowed and actual events was, at least in my own personal mind, overwhelming.

I am a huge believer in Science and evidence based findings. It's like a gigantic jigsaw puzzle that helps us define, describe, and learn about the World around us. Human beings were given an amazing gift, but it is just that. What do you do when someone gives you a gift? How about the most amazing gift He could ever possibly give you, the World? What if also, on top of life, he gave you grace? What if HE gave you asbsolute forgiveness on top of that?

Yes, our humanness will ask questions? Its encoded. It will also question other things. It will suppose, that because we cannot see other things, that we individuals are responsible for things we cannot or should never take credit for. Did i create the Heavens? No. Something or someone did.

Suppose this whole thing is a charade. At very least Christ was or is a person to whom the behaviours and patterns of treating others we should appreciate and emulate.

You choose your way, best of luck my friend. Cheers.

 

[MikeVol44]

You're confusing history with science. Most of the main characters in the New Testament are exclusive to it.

Historians come to a consensus that the people you mentioned exist when they appear in surviving sources over and over, from different cultures and different perspectives.

We're at a point in our society where folks are trying to make facts that hold up to academic process subjective, and it's dangerous.

It's cool that you have your faith, but it's faith, and history is history. Far from infallible but a much more evidence-based discipline.

I do agree that our society finds itself in a most dangerous position when it accepts, elevates, and deifies subjective, humanistic drivel for objective, historically accurate truth.

I'll be brief in my statements:

First of all--I wasn't confusing science with history.
My point in referencing the scientific method was to demonstrate the FACT that no ancient historical event may be proven or denied with science.
The reason being that the events are not observable or reproducible.
(I said that so those who really are sincere enough to investigate the historical record will refuse to be bullied by those intellectual elitists who continually belittle Christians as ignoramuses.
Most do not want to hear from Christians who are excellent scientists who believe the Bible--https://www.icr.org/homepage/)

Therefore--we must rely on the validity and authenticity of ancient written texts to know--to the best of our abilities--what actually transpired.
This is true whether we are speaking of Plato, Aristotle, Moses, King David, Jesus of Nazareth, Julius Caesar, or Constantine.

Tacitus, Seutonius, Pliny the Younger, and Josephus (via Roman sponsorship) are all Roman historians who mentioned Jesus and His followers, Christians, and their mistreatment under Roman Emperors.

For the record, I'll just leave this reference as good place to begin for those who really desire to know the truth concerning the validity and veracity of the NT texts as reliable historical documents.
Manuscript evidence for superior New Testament reliability | CARM.org

I'll also mention the importance of the Dead Sea Scrolls in validating the Cairo/Leningrad/and Aleppo Codices in the OT manuscript records.
The DSS overwhelmingly substantiate the validity, consistency, and veracity of the OT translations we carry around in our Bibles today in relation to the original texts.

I appreciate the dialogue....and I do fully acknowledge that the debate will rage on and on as our society continues to unravel and descend down that slipper slope to anarchy.

I just hope that folks will actually take the time to read the Bible for themselves before attempting to reject it as fiction.

God knows that I have read my share of fiction in Biology textbooks on my way to earning two degrees.

 

[bignewt]

If you guys are ever looking for a cool little romantic getaway for two, just got back from The Owls Perch, overlooking Squawlly Creek outside of Joyce Kilmer forest. Great hosts they took us on an atv trip to the top of the mountain by their cabin. Quiet, relaxing time!

 

[SweetasSoda]

If you guys are ever looking for a cool little romantic getaway for two, just got back from The Owls Perch, overlooking Squawlly Creek outside of Joyce Kilmer forest. Great hosts they took us on an atv trip to the top of the mountain by their cabin. Quiet, relaxing time!

Where is this?

 

[bignewt]

Just west of Robbinsville, NC is the owls perch, we hiked about 4 miles away in joyce kilmer national forest and went up to tapoco lodge for a late lunch.

 

[SweetasSoda]

Just west of Robbinsville, NC is the owls perch, we hiked about 4 miles away in joyce kilmer national forest and went up to tapoco lodge for a late lunch.

Beautiful! Looks like my backyard. I have a creek just like that. If you enjoy hiking you may like Savage Gulf State Park. I'll checkout The Owl's Perch.

 

[bignewt]

Beautiful! Looks like my backyard. I have a creek just like that. If you enjoy hiking you may like Savage Gulf State Park. I'll checkout The Owl's Perch.

Yes ive hiked all around that area always wanted to check out savage garden!

 

[SweetasSoda]

Yes ive hiked all around that area always wanted to check out savage garden!

I live by the Sutter Falls/Collins West entrance.