Recruiting forum off topic thread (merged)

[BruinVol]

IMO the only way trump is going to be defeated is if Rubio or Cruz takes one for the sake of our country and drops out pretty soon.

If all 3 stay in trump wins fairly easily IMO

 

[BJHSVol]

Swapping to socialism is never an economic decision. I regret to say that you must be defeated. Everyone wants a better life. Marxism or even quasi-Marxism isn't going to give you that despite the promises. There comes a point when you run out of other people's money and then comes the iron fist. Rationing, malaise, wearing sweaters in the White House because we can't afford heat.

I'm not arguing for government owned industry or anything like that. I just think healthcare should be a right.

Serious question, would you be against universal healthcare if instead having to pay a monthly premium and all the different copays and deductibles, you would just pay a comparable amount as a tax increase? If it was actually implemented correctly where the majority of Americans saw total costs either decrease or stay the same?

You would still have the choice of which Doctor/Hospital to go see and generally didn't see any major changes?

 

[Ulysees E. McGill]

I own my own company and I can't attract non-skilled labor for minimum wage. I have employees that can barely sweep the floor, have no initiative to better their skill set, and are generally lazy that I have to pay at least $10/hr. The only reason I keep them or don't pay less is they do usually show up for work.

I know people who work hard every day for 8 dollars an hour. Anybody can pull stories out to support their position.

 

[volatil]

So you would want the government to tell you what drugs, tests, or procedures you can have based on the price?

The wait for certain procedures would make the VA look efficient.

Residents of European nations with national health care systems have experienced these very problems. Going as far to tell some residents they can not have life saving procedures due to their age.
Is Europe's Health Care Better? - Businessweek

 

[Vol464]

I'm not arguing for government owned industry or anything like that. I just think healthcare should be a right.

Serious question, would you be against universal healthcare if instead having to pay a monthly premium and all the different copays and deductibles, you would just pay a comparable amount as a tax increase? If it was actually implemented correctly where the majority of Americans saw total costs either decrease or stay the same?

You would still have the choice of which Doctor/Hospital to go see and generally didn't see any major changes?

No. The government can't fix anything or run anything efficiently.

 

[Hubbard]

I'm not arguing for government owned industry or anything like that. I just think healthcare should be a right.

Serious question, would you be against universal healthcare if instead having to pay a monthly premium and all the different copays and deductibles, you would just pay a comparable amount as a tax increase? If it was actually implemented correctly where the majority of Americans saw total costs either decrease or stay the same?

You would still have the choice of which Doctor/Hospital to go see and generally didn't see any major changes?

If you work in healthcare, you should realize that the government heath plans are the least efficient.

An issue of "healthcare is a right" is defining what level of healthcare is a "right". The other issue is who is going to pay for that "right".

There is no "free" healthcare.

 

[SmokinBob]

I had two uncles who committed suicide...not the same kind of loss by any stretch. That being said, it could have been an execution reference and even if it wasn't, you can't look for reasons to get offended...you'll always find it. My late younger sister was special needs and I learned not to brandish arms at every RETARDED utterance I overheard. If it was used in hate and derision TOWARDS her, I entered the fray...but that was hardly ever the case. Likewise my wife lost her battle with breast cancer almost two years ago. Whenever a poster makes fun of awareness campaigns with SAVE THE BOOBIES or IN THE PINK references, I take issue. But if I jumped at every CANCER IN THE LOCKERROOM or similar analogy? Wouldn't have the energy. Having a senior daughter who was heartbroken over her breakup last night, I don't want to imagine your loss. I'll just leave it with pick your battles...there are way too many to choose from. :hi:

Butchna, catching up and know I'm a few days late but your post - much wisdom here.

 

[Skullbone]

I'm not arguing for government owned industry or anything like that. I just think healthcare should be a right.

Serious question, would you be against universal healthcare if instead having to pay a monthly premium and all the different copays and deductibles, you would just pay a comparable amount as a tax increase? If it was actually implemented correctly where the majority of Americans saw total costs either decrease or stay the same?

You would still have the choice of which Doctor/Hospital to go see and generally didn't see any major changes?

No. I favor a free market health care system. The majority of Americans have seen their costs go up under this Obamacare system. That's real. Not theory. Real life. Just as you just promised, we were already promised to keep your choice of doctor, no major changes, bla, bla bla. That turned out to be not true because it's not possible. The VA, a government run health system has been caught lying and hiding unfavorable stats that show while some get outstanding care many many others are basically left to die and are swept under the rug. That's real life evidence. ANNNNd, despite all these new people who are covered who weren't before their actual use of and access to health care is no greater than it was 20 years ago. Here's a spoiler alert: the catch to Marxism is it can never be "implemented correctly" as you put it. That's been the excuse for well over a hundred years. The Bolsheviks, Lenin, Stalin, Trotsky, and Khrushchev, etc, all claimed communism would be perfect if only their "correct implantation" were applied. Utopia is never achieved, however. It's a never ending cycle of dictator after dictator experimenting with human life. Many Americans fought and died to prevent that dead end ideology from taking hold of the country and world at large. I would rather die than vote for that here now.

 

[Skullbone]

If you work in healthcare, you should realize that the government heath plans are the least efficient.

An issue of "healthcare is a right" is defining what level of healthcare is a "right". The other issue is who is going to pay for that "right".

There is no "free" healthcare.

The 1977 Soviet Constitution was chock full of "rights" to all kinds of nice things. A Bernie voter would probably fall in love with it. But then there's the matter of how that actually worked out in real life.

 

[BJHSVol]

So you would want the government to tell you what drugs, tests, or procedures you can have based on the price?

How Is that any different from how insurances work now? Drug outside of formulary? Not covered by insurance. Test or procedure not in step-therapy? Not covered.

We clearly just couldn't copy a European country because of the differences of size/scope, but our health care system needs drastic improvement and I think everyone option needs to be considered. Obamacare was so bastardized from the start that it was destined to fail so I don't a properly implemented plan should be dismissed out of hand.

Romneys plan when he was governor of MA worked so I think there is some precedent of the government being able to implement some kind of improvement.

 

[InVOLuntary]

I know people who work hard every day for 8 dollars an hour. Anybody can pull stories out to support their position.

I'm sure there are but I can't seem to find them. I've ran ads, spread the word through others. Maybe your area is different. I've had people tell me they'd stay at home and draw unemployment before they would work for $10 an hour. I'm telling you that the minimum wage is nothing more than a political chess piece that they use to garner votes.

The workforce in this country is pathetic.

 

[Vols4us]

I'm sure there are but I can't seem to find them. I've ran ads, spread the word through others. Maybe your area is different. I've had people tell me they'd stay at home and draw unemployment before they would work for $10 an hour. I'm telling you that the minimum wage is nothing more than a political chess piece that they use to garner votes.

The workforce in this country is pathetic.

In my pre-retirement employer roles I saw a serious deterioration in average performance over the decades. Increasing substance abuse, divorces, single parent families, more availability to government safety nets, the social media addicted, etc. all have contributed to the downturn in productivity. As you say, sometimes you keep them on board because they at least show up when they are supposed to be there. There are really good workers that help make up for the shortfalls of the others. But you can't afford to pay them double to make up for the crappy ones. It was a constant pain to juggle it all and make budget.

The minimum wage thing is all optics. $8 is not enough and $15 is too much. Many people do not connect the dots any more that you start low, work hard, learn, improve yourself, get promoted or take a position that pays more or that has more upside. They want to go from working the drive through to being a doctor. At least spend a night in a HI Express first.

 

[Vols4us]

Going back to when I first hit the workforce after finishing the degree, which was a long, long time ago; I have never understood having employers provide healthcare insurance. Doesn't make sense. I have always favored having individual portability using private insurers until retirement or permanent incapacity.

I am in favor of keeping Medicare and some form of subsidy assistance for lower income, handicapped, etc. I just want it administered by a private administrator that bids for the service as well as the government actually lock boxing the funds instead of using it to balance a budget that they refuse to balance. No more IOU's. I want the incompetent federal government out of everything possible. But if you have a SS number, you have to be insured. If you are insured, you have to have a SS #. Garnishee wages if necessary. No insurance, no service. If illegally here, go home. Free transportation provided. If here on a visa or passport, proof of insurance required.

Remove the state barriers for insurers as well as tort reform to make it uniform nationwide. No preexisting condition restrictions, etc. The pool of insured will grow by many millions and the costs for doing business will be lowered. We all win.

Individual responsibility. Take this off the backs of employers.

 

[Jackcrevol]

Going back to when I first hit the workforce after finishing the degree, which was a long, long time ago; I have never understood having employers provide healthcare insurance. Doesn't make sense. I have always favored having individual portability using private insurers until retirement or permanent incapacity.

I am in favor of keeping Medicare and some form of subsidy assistance for lower income, handicapped, etc. I just want it administered by a private administrator that bids for the service as well as the government actually lock boxing the funds instead of using it to balance a budget that they refuse to balance. No more IOU's. I want the incompetent federal government out of everything possible. But if you have a SS number, you have to be insured. If you are insured, you have to have a SS #. Garnishee wages if necessary. No insurance, no service. If illegally here, go home. Free transportation provided. If here on a visa or passport, proof of insurance required.

Remove the state barriers for insurers as well as tort reform to make it uniform nationwide. No preexisting condition restrictions, etc. The pool of insured will grow by many millions and the costs for doing business will be lowered. We all win.

Individual responsibility. Take this off the backs of employers.

Man, if only someone had thought of that! Sounds like big business gets to have their cake and eat it too?! while we're at it, let's go ahead and end taxation on corporations, cause they need that extra cushion towards their bottom line. Know what? Ill actually work for free so the CEO can get a paybump, neither he or his top 20% need to help out. Know what? they dont need to pay taxes either. Heck, those pesky middle class workers 😀. They earn enough, Mr CEO, which island nation would you like me to send this tax free check too?

The American worker is in trouble.

 

[Hubbard]

How Is that any different from how insurances work now? Drug outside of formulary? Not covered by insurance. Test or procedure not in step-therapy? Not covered.

We clearly just couldn't copy a European country because of the differences of size/scope, but our health care system needs drastic improvement and I think everyone option needs to be considered. Obamacare was so bastardized from the start that it was destined to fail so I don't a properly implemented plan should be dismissed out of hand.

Romneys plan when he was governor of MA worked so I think there is some precedent of the government being able to implement some kind of improvement.

The difference is VERY important. It is called competition.

If you do not like your insurance company, make a change. You can't do that when the government has a healthcare monopoly. Well, unless you move to another country.

Why do you think our healthcare system needs "drastic" improvement? What are the problems you are trying to solve?

 

[Hubbard]

Man, if only someone had thought of that! Sounds like big business gets to have their cake and eat it too?! while we're at it, let's go ahead and end taxation on corporations, cause they need that extra cushion towards their bottom line. Know what? Ill actually work for free so the CEO can get a paybump, neither he or his top 20% need to help out. Know what? they dont need to pay taxes either. Heck, those pesky middle class workers ��. They earn enough, Mr CEO, which island nation would you like me to send this tax free check too?

The American worker is in trouble.

I think the suggestion was to remove a government mandate that employers provide an insurance benefit to employees. Many employers provide health insurance benefits, as well as other benefits, to employees. Employers are willing to offer these benefits to attract the best employees.

Many of the CEOs you want to demonize are in the Middle Class. They are running small businesses. They work long hours and invest more than a 40 hour week to do their job to ensure success of the business.

The American worker is in trouble if their employer cannot make a reasonable profit margin.

 

[Skullbone]

Man, if only someone had thought of that! Sounds like big business gets to have their cake and eat it too?! while we're at it, let's go ahead and end taxation on corporations, cause they need that extra cushion towards their bottom line. Know what? Ill actually work for free so the CEO can get a paybump, neither he or his top 20% need to help out. Know what? they dont need to pay taxes either. Heck, those pesky middle class workers ��. They earn enough, Mr CEO, which island nation would you like me to send this tax free check too?

The American worker is in trouble.

If you unleash the American economy by reducing what is the highest corporate taxes in the world and reduce regulations which both burden the production of products and the actual effectiveness of their intended function then the middle class as you say will flourish. It's happened before. Meanwhile, we've had 8 years of leftist philosophy in action and yet the middle class still hasn't achieved the utopia that is promised by the tax and spend master minds.

 

[Skullbone]

" The economic freedom which is the prerequisite of any other freedom cannot be the freedom from economic care which the socialists promise us and which can be obtained only by relieving the individual at the same time of the necessity and of the power of choice; it must be the freedom of economic activity which, with the right of choice, inevitably also carries the risk and the responsibility of that right." - F.A. Hayek

 

[Smokey49]

No. I favor a free market health care system. The majority of Americans have seen their costs go up under this Obamacare system. That's real. Not theory. Real life. Just as you just promised, we were already promised to keep your choice of doctor, no major changes, bla, bla bla. That turned out to be not true because it's not possible. The VA, a government run health system has been caught lying and hiding unfavorable stats that show while some get outstanding care many many others are basically left to die and are swept under the rug. That's real life evidence. ANNNNd, despite all these new people who are covered who weren't before their actual use of and access to health care is no greater than it was 20 years ago. Here's a spoiler alert: the catch to Marxism is it can never be "implemented correctly" as you put it. That's been the excuse for well over a hundred years. The Bolsheviks, Lenin, Stalin, Trotsky, and Khrushchev, etc, all claimed communism would be perfect if only their "correct implantation" were applied. Utopia is never achieved, however. It's a never ending cycle of dictator after dictator experimenting with human life. Many Americans fought and died to prevent that dead end ideology from taking hold of the country and world at large. I would rather die than vote for that here now.

.

 

[Smokey49]

In my pre-retirement employer roles I saw a serious deterioration in average performance over the decades. Increasing substance abuse, divorces, single parent families, more availability to government safety nets, the social media addicted, etc. all have contributed to the downturn in productivity. As you say, sometimes you keep them on board because they at least show up when they are supposed to be there. There are really good workers that help make up for the shortfalls of the others. But you can't afford to pay them double to make up for the crappy ones. It was a constant pain to juggle it all and make budget.

The minimum wage thing is all optics. $8 is not enough and $15 is too much. Many people do not connect the dots any more that you start low, work hard, learn, improve yourself, get promoted or take a position that pays more or that has more upside. They want to go from working the drive through to being a doctor. At least spend a night in a HI Express first.

.

 

[Jackcrevol]

I think the suggestion was to remove a government mandate that employers provide an insurance benefit to employees. Many employers provide health insurance benefits, as well as other benefits, to employees. Employers are willing to offer these benefits to attract the best employees.

Many of the CEOs you want to demonize are in the Middle Class. They are running small businesses. They work long hours and invest more than a 40 hour week to do their job to ensure success of the business.

The American worker is in trouble if their employer cannot make a reasonable profit margin.

Im not concerned about the bottom line of large corporations. Small businesses are a diff story. I understood the pt. But appreciate the clarification. It's a slippery slope we live on

 

[Vols4us]

I think the suggestion was to remove a government mandate that employers provide an insurance benefit to employees. Many employers provide health insurance benefits, as well as other benefits, to employees. Employers are willing to offer these benefits to attract the best employees.

Many of the CEOs you want to demonize are in the Middle Class. They are running small businesses. They work long hours and invest more than a 40 hour week to do their job to ensure success of the business.

The American worker is in trouble if their employer cannot make a reasonable profit margin.

Yes - that was the suggestion. Good post. Considering I started by doing menial work as a janitor while going to school and progressed to the point right before retirement when I employed over 150 people at one time for years, I have some knowledge to share to the 'government is the answer to everything crowd'.

 

[SmokinBob]

"You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class or race hatred. You cannot build character and courage by taking away people's initiative and independence. You cannot help people permanently by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves." --Abraham Lincoln

edit: I added the bolded words

 

[BJHSVol]

The difference is VERY important. It is called competition.

If you do not like your insurance company, make a change. You can't do that when the government has a healthcare monopoly. Well, unless you move to another country.

Why do you think our healthcare system needs "drastic" improvement? What are the problems you are trying to solve?

changing your insurance company is easier said than done. Getting it through your employer is pretty much the only feasible option for the majority of America because going outside of that is exorbitantly expensive in most cases.

Healthcare is different that just about every other industry because in most cases you can't shop around and compare prices in medical emergiences. Get in a car accident and need an ambulance to take you to an ER? Better hope that the hospital is in network. Or maybe you plan a surgery and make sure the hospital, surgeon and practice you are using are in network, but for some reason the anaesthologist that works for the hospital isn't so now your paying a few extra thousand dollars even though you did everything right through insurance.

We spend more per capita than almost any other country and what exactly do we get out of it?

 

[UTJoe]

"You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. You cannot lift the wage earner up by pulling the wage payer down. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class or race hatred. You cannot build character and courage by taking away people's initiative and independence. You cannot help people permanently by doing for them, what they could and should do for themselves." --Abraham Lincoln

edit: I added the bolded words

"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
-- Thomas Jefferson

"It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world."
-- Thomas Jefferson

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
-- Thomas Jefferson

"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government."
-- Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
-- Thomas Jefferson