Recruiting Forum: Official Florida Pre-Game/Game Thread

#2,251
#2,251
jjay2518 said:
There are plenty of names that have been listed ad nauseum. The "but who do we get" argument is weak. Once you don't have faith that your guy can at least win a conference championship for you, find someone else who you think can.
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This. Dude can't get it done and is starting to get embarrassed. You go find somebody else. Maybe they don't get it done either but Butch seems to have reached his pinnacle.
 
#2,252
#2,252
The Breakerboy said:
Sapp played but Bituli didn't. Because the coaches keep the stars on the sideline. They are saving Bituli for Bama week now. Getting Vanilla I guess. Wonder how Bituli would look on a blitz.
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Bituli was killing it early on. Did they really not play him anymore after Q1?
 
#2,253
#2,253
jave36 said:
Bituli was killing it early on. Did they really not play him anymore after Q1?
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I've been consistently saying fire Butch since USC last year and crying about Bituli being buried on the depth chart for 2 weeks, but the defense looked rough on the first couple of series, then no Bituli and defense got a bit better.

I was far from sober on first viewing so I need to rewatch but that was my impression.
 
#2,254
#2,254
Sorry to say but we won't spend big money on a coach, I was all in on Butch, Really wanted him to succeed, But his inept decisions today and the last few years is enough. I told the wifey that we would find a way to lose.

The entire game was a wash. The only bright spots was,

The Oline actually opened up some holes but Jack J, YOU CAN NOT MAKE THOSE MISTAKES DOWN THERE.

Kelly is the best RB we have had in a while. The kid had HEART and will not go down. He could break records this year, well until teams load the box cause our passing game is LACKING.

Betuli is a future star at MLB. Guess it was coaching decision that had him on sidelines in second half.

DBs........... yeah

Dline actually got some push. Kmac made some good tackles, Tuttle was in there too. Kongbo had a few hurries, and Taylor is a grown a** man. He's def NFL bound.

Dormandy could be a good QB but his mechanics are all over the place. He throw to the TE for 6 was a thing of beauty, but then his back foot throws were awful. 3 picks and a horrible rating would have gotten him benched on most power 5 teams. Guess JG really isn't ready???

Butch has major issues. Fans are not pleased or willing to hear excuses. I'm fearful GA, Bama, LSU, and maybe SC Will just load the box and play press. If so, we in trouble.

We have the talent, we truly do. Byrd needs to be switched to DB, PLEASE!!!! Stop wasting talent. That dude should transfer.
 
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#2,255
#2,255
InVOLuntary said:
A lot has to do with money. Most of these decisions are made on a spreadsheet. There's not a lot of financial reasons to fire him. Ticket sales are still great. There's not a lot of reasons to spend $8 mil plus to get rid of him. Now if the season tanks completed, some of the big money contributors could step up and make it more financially feasible. I think he'll win just enough to keep his job. All imo.
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8 million plus is incorrect.

The MAX we'd have to is 8 million. If Butch finds a new job, his new salary subtracts from that until the time he's currently contracted through.

There is also a clause in his contract that says if he doesn't try to find gainful employment he's not owed all the buyout money.

In all likelihood, firing him in December results in a total payment of just under 6 million dollars over the next 3 years.
 
#2,256
#2,256
Been thinking long and hard. I thought of old cheese and Phil running it down arky's throat. We did that and Florida was gassed. First and 10. Run the ball and worse case is a FG and OT and no timeouts and little time for the opponent. Or score a TD and keep them out of the endzone. They still would not have much time. Take the headset off and call the plays yourself Butch. It was simple but we crapped the bed.

With nine seconds left, I told my son they are going to take a shot. They did and we freaking lose. I am not even a middle school coach and I know better. I was a QB in highschool so that helps but any fool knows what to do and when to go for two. Thinking of past crap too.

How come this stubborn hard azz idiot doesn't know how to manage a freaking game? He better find a way to win nine games in the regular season and go 5-3 in conference. No excuses but JUST WIN BUTCH AND PLAY JARRETT REGARDLESS. He can throw three interceptions and yes I saw Indiana State and kid should've been 6-12 if guys make catches. It's time for his shot. QD had his and if we had won this in OT then we could be 3-0 and start QD again. We are 2-1 and Jarrett deserves his chance. I don't trust any of his decision making. Put Byrd at CB with Wiggins and GAULDEN and Warrior at safety and Abernathy at nickle. Time to give JG his shot. If that pisses QD off then tell him to quit throwing off his back foot. JUST WIN BUTCH OR BE FIRED.
 
#2,257
#2,257
The coordinators have never been the problem. It's always been Lyle. Someday everyone will wake up to this. Plenty of us have known it since 2015, when we lost game after game with the better team. The guy cannot coach football. He should be a manager or a recruiting coordinator. He simply doesn't know big boy football, and he ain't changing. If anything, he's getting worse. His in game decisions are to the point of being comical. Poor players deserve better.
 
#2,258
#2,258
I honestly think we'd be better off cutting him loose now and hiring Scott or Hoke as interim. Gives plenty of time for a coaching search and lets the team rally around a guy they actually like and trust (Scott).
 
#2,259
#2,259
Is Scott truly this stupid or was Butch the one who said well that's enough good running from Kelly, let's only throw bad passes in the red zone. I hate to say, I don't even know if I want the team to finish strong because then we are stuck with Butch for more years. If he didn't learn after 2015 he isn't going to learn now! Would love to know what Currie said to him after the game- that might be the only way Butch changes if he is told to do so or pack your bags.
 
#2,260
#2,260
Darth_Shiveman said:
8 million plus is incorrect.

The MAX we'd have to is 8 million. If Butch finds a new job, his new salary subtracts from that until the time he's currently contracted through.

There is also a clause in his contract that says if he doesn't try to find gainful employment he's not owed all the buyout money.

In all likelihood, firing him in December results in a total payment of just under 6 million dollars over the next 3 years.
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What about buyouts for assistant coaches? I got the $8 mil from you on Butch.
 
#2,262
#2,262
jave36 said:
Except our 8-4 predictions didn't include a loss to the worst Florida team in about 2 decades
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In any 8-4 scenario, the fourth loss was going to disappointing. Bama, UGA, and LSU were deemed acceptable by most but the rest should have been wins.
 
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#2,263
#2,263
Miracles happen. Butch could learn from this and start making rudimentary HC decisions that are made by HS HC's every Friday night across America. But since it's not on his card it probably won't happen since we know the best predictor of future success is past performance. That's what's on the card, not what successful coaches have done.

Over it. They could win out (they won't). I would be happy for the players and still want him gone. He's paid well to not be stupid multiple times in several games each season. He can't do it. It infuriates me how he messes with the players' futures. Thanks for the roster he built and for Robert Gillespie - a UF grad. It is also obvious that the Canales hire did absolutely nothing to help either QB in their development. Neither one was prepared sufficiently to start this season. It's time to bite the bullet and start over while there is still a good nucleus on the roster. A good number of quality recruits in this class will still sign if the right hire is made, it might even get better. The money is now in the kitty to make this happen with no problems financially.

Mullen or Venables for me. I want a real football coach - not one that hangs on the terminology of the month and pretends to know it all. I've seen enough of Dools and Jones to run from snake oil salesmen. The program is being mocked nationwide and I am sick of it because I know they are right. I tried my best to be positive this season and believe that he could turn the corner as a legitimate SEC level HC. Done.
 
#2,264
#2,264
Vols4us said:
Miracles happen. Butch could learn from this and start making rudimentary HC decisions that are made by HS HC's every Friday night across America. But since it's not on his card it probably won't happen since we know the best predictor of future success is past performance. That's what's on the card, not what successful coaches have done.

Over it. They could win out (they won't). I would be happy for the players and still want him gone. He's paid well to not be stupid multiple times in several games each season. He can't do it. It infuriates me how he messes with the players' futures. Thanks for the roster he built and for Robert Gillespie - a UF grad. It is also obvious that the Canales hire did absolutely nothing to help either QB in their development. Neither one was prepared sufficiently to start this season. It's time to bite the bullet and start over while there is still a good nucleus on the roster. A good number of quality recruits in this class will still sign if the right hire is made, it might even get better. The money is now in the kitty to make this happen with no problems financially.

Mullen or Venables for me. I want a real football coach - not one that hangs on the terminology of the month and pretends to know it all. I've seen enough of Dools and Jones to run from snake oil salesmen. The program is being mocked nationwide and I am sick of it because I know they are right. I tried my best to be positive this season and believe that he could turn the corner as a legitimate SEC level HC. Done.
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When he was hired, I said it would be on the job training. He was not ready for this type of job. We've been saying "He'll learn" in some form or fashion since he got here. Has he really learned anything? Seems a lot of the same old same old for 5 years.

I remember, well before the KY game that Dooley was done. While doubts had crept in before last night, I had that moment with Jones last night. His days are numbered. Question is what are those numbers. My gut tells me he'll win enough to get another year but not knowing how aggressive Currie is, I could be wrong.

As to Mullen, one reservation I have is wondering if he'll get caught up in this NCAA stuff spilling over from Ol Miss.
 
#2,265
#2,265
InVOLuntary said:
When he was hired, I said it would be on the job training. He was not ready for this type of job. We've been saying "He'll learn" in some form or fashion since he got here. Has he really learned anything? Seems a lot of the same old same old for 5 years.

I remember, well before the KY game that Dooley was done. While doubts had crept in before last night, I had that moment with Jones last night. His days are numbered. Question is what are those numbers. My gut tells me he'll win enough to get another year but not knowing how aggressive Currie is, I could be wrong.

As to Mullen, one reservation I have is wondering if he'll get caught up in this NCAA stuff spilling over from Ol Miss.
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5 years and were still seeing the same mistakes. Goal line issues, play calling issues, game day coaching issues, personnel issues, stubbornness, refusal to adapt/change... its over for Butch.

I have the same gut feeling as you though, he may be back next year still.
 
#2,266
#2,266
InVOLuntary said:
What about buyouts for assistant coaches? I got the $8 mil from you on Butch.
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Depends on who goes. Assistants most likely have offsetting language as well. I don't know for sure though.


The thing with Butch's contract is that he has to try to find a new job or he's not owed the 2 million/year for 3 years. Once he gets a job (college or pro as position coach, coordinator, HC, or college administrator even), then his salary is subtracted from the 2 million per year.


So say Butch gets a Charlie Strong-esque G5 coaching job or lower tier P5 job: that $2 million/year becomes 500K-1 million/year.
 
#2,267
#2,267
Darth_Shiveman said:
Depends on who goes. Assistants most likely have offsetting language as well. I don't know for sure though.


The thing with Butch's contract is that he has to try to find a new job or he's not owed the 2 million/year for 3 years. Once he gets a job (college or pro as position coach, coordinator, HC, or college administrator even), then his salary is subtracted from the 2 million per year.


So say Butch gets a Charlie Strong-esque G5 coaching job or lower tier P5 job: that $2 million/year becomes 500K-1 million/year.
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I understand the offset but there are no guarantees. We hired a fired head coach as an assistant a few years ago, can't recall which one but he was working for practically nothing because he was being paid large from his former job. Also, another factor is paying a sizable buyout of whatever coach you go get.
 
#2,268
#2,268
InVOLuntary said:
I understand the offset but there are no guarantees. We hired a fired head coach as an assistant a few years ago, can't recall which one but he was working for practically nothing because he was being paid large from his former job. Also, another factor is paying a sizable buyout of whatever coach you go get.
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With all due respect, that fired HC's contract has no bearing on Butch's contract. His contract is pretty cut and dry. If we fire him and he gets another HC job, odds are we only have to pay him 5-6 million over 3 years. That's not too bad, really. That's a big part of the reason Butch wanted to renegotiate his contract last year: he know his buyout would become less of an obstacle from March 2017 onward.

Of course there are assistant contracts as well, but there would likely be at least a few holdovers. If most of them have offsetting language, then they won't hurt us too bad. A few guys like Shoop or Scott potentially could become HCs at small schools and get a salary that would basically void the buyout.





I think we need to let the season play out before we make any big decisions. I'm not advocating to "FAHR BUTCH" by any means at this point.



But I do think that as far as SEC buyouts go, Butch's isn't so bad. Absolute worst case scenario (in which nobody will hire Butch or anyone on this staff), we're looking at paying Butch and his staff a combined 9-10 million over 3 years.


But that's extremely unlikely. Best case scenario we're paying less than 2 million/year for 3 years. Most likely scenario is that we're paying around 6-7 million over 3 years to Butch and assistants let go + buyouts for the new coach.


It's a pretty standard SEC buyout.
 
#2,269
#2,269
Darth_Shiveman said:
With all due respect, that fired HC's contract has no bearing on Butch's contract. His contract is pretty cut and dry. If we fire him and he gets another HC job, odds are we only have to pay him 5-6 million over 3 years. That's not too bad, really. That's a big part of the reason Butch wanted to renegotiate his contract last year: he know his buyout would become less of an obstacle from March 2017 onward.

Of course there are assistant contracts as well, but there would likely be at least a few holdovers. If most of them have offsetting language, then they won't hurt us too bad. A few guys like Shoop or Scott potentially could become HCs at small schools and get a salary that would basically void the buyout.





I think we need to let the season play out before we make any big decisions. I'm not advocating to "FAHR BUTCH" by any means at this point.



But I do think that as far as SEC buyouts go, Butch's isn't so bad. Absolute worst case scenario (in which nobody will hire Butch or anyone on this staff), we're looking at paying Butch and his staff a combined 9-10 million over 3 years.


But that's extremely unlikely. Best case scenario we're paying less than 2 million/year for 3 years. Most likely scenario is that we're paying around 6-7 million over 3 years to Butch and assistants let go + buyouts for the new coach.


It's a pretty standard SEC buyout.
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I don't disagree with any of that. I'm just adding up the possible, worst case scenario of cost. I'm not confident that he could secure another head coaching job like Strong did. His reputation nationally is pretty low. If I was betting, he'll have to go the assistant route before he gets another head coaching job. That was my reference to the other former head coach that was an assistant. That might be attractive to another progra that Butch may be willing to work for less because he was getting paid by us. All conjecture on my part.
 
#2,271
#2,271
InVOLuntary said:
I don't disagree with any of that. I'm just adding up the possible, worst case scenario of cost. I'm not confident that he could secure another head coaching job like Strong did. His reputation nationally is pretty low. If I was betting, he'll have to go the assistant route before he gets another head coaching job. That was my reference to the other former head coach that was an assistant. That might be attractive to another progra that Butch may be willing to work for less because he was getting paid by us. All conjecture on my part.
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Ah I see.

I think Butch can get some job somewhere for 500k-1 million/year.

He did well at Cincy and honestly I think he might do well at a school with low expectations.


Him being a retread and all, it wouldn't surprise me to see a G5 school go for him over an up and coming P5 OC/DC who will be looking to jump ship within 3-4 years.


If Butch gets another HC job at a less prestigious place after UT, I could see him being content to stick around for a while.



Also all conjecture on my part.
 
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