Reid Suggests Romney Paid No Taxes for 10 Years

#101
#101
rigged to benefit the wealthy?

the tax code greatly favors the poor, both in simplicity and in terms of money given back/refunded. A single worker family of four with an income of less than 36K will often get back over 4 times what was paid in to the IRS once you figure in the EITC, child tax credits, and so on.

LG is going to have to explain how routinely filing returns that are several hundred pages long "greatly benefits the wealthy". Being exposed to yearly audits is a benefit?
 
#102
#102
volinbham said:
Reid lives in the Ritz Carlton - Romney is extra wealthy but it's not like most of the big name politicians aren't in the less than 1 %.

Romney is no more emblematic of this than Obama is.
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The single most outrageous thing you have ever said on this board.
 
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#105
#105
Reid went from nothing to one of the richest people in Congress all on $170k per year but we need to investigate Romney. Sounds about right
 
#106
#106
This whole "emblematic" proves the point it is a side show. His tax returns have nothing to do with his qualifications. They are supposed by some to be symbolic of social injustice favoring the rich.

I'm quite sure that anyone who feels people like Romney are the problem are already against him. So what's the point? Dig through the tax returns to find buzz words and deductions to highlight to gin up more class envy. Just what the country needs :no:
 
#107
#107
Y'all are missing LG's point. I hate agreeing with him. I hate even more coming to his defense. Yuck.
 
#109
#109
PKT_VOL said:
Y'all are missing LG's point. I hate agreeing with him. I hate even more coming to his defense. Yuck.
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I'm not missing it I just think it doesn't hold water.

If the public needs to see this information to learn if Romney is somehow emblematic of their frustrations economically and feeling the system is gamed for the rich (which is not a universal feeling by the way) then likewise Obama's college transcripts are essential too so we can see if his coursework and writings are emblematic of redistributive and social justice philosophy.

That's the rub. Romney's taxes/Obama's transcripts are amazing poor proxies for policy philosophy. So what are we left with? Fodder for political opponents to twist, distort and outright lie about to win political points and distract voters from real issues and real policy differences.

Again, look at who is claiming the public needs to see the tax returns - it's the people who would never vote for him even if he paid 100% of this earnings in taxes. That should show it is about scoring political points rather than some real indicator of qualifications for office.
 
#110
#110
Theres no meaningful debate or serious policy discussion happening anyways so I don't see what difference it makes

Both parties are targeting the uneducated because they both know thats the margin that will win in november
 
#115
#115
The novelty wore off for me after about five times. I'd rather get repeatedly punched in the balls than watch MSNBC or Fox News. The only thing I think of when I see any of that propaganda-ridden drivel is that we have enough people in this country with room temperature IQ's who aren't smart enough to read between the lines to make channels like MSNBC and FNC not only commercially viable but cash cows.
 
#117
#117
BigPapaVol said:
and which point would that be?
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volinbham said:
I'm not missing it I just think it doesn't hold water.

If the public needs to see this information to learn if Romney is somehow emblematic of their frustrations economically and feeling the system is gamed for the rich (which is not a universal feeling by the way) then likewise Obama's college transcripts are essential too so we can see if his coursework and writings are emblematic of redistributive and social justice philosophy.

That's the rub. Romney's taxes/Obama's transcripts are amazing poor proxies for policy philosophy. So what are we left with? Fodder for political opponents to twist, distort and outright lie about to win political points and distract voters from real issues and real policy differences.

Again, look at who is claiming the public needs to see the tax returns - it's the people who would never vote for him even if he paid 100% of this earnings in taxes. That should show it is about scoring political points rather than some real indicator of qualifications for office.
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Come on guys, this is campaign politics.

1) You guys (as are a decent majority of posters here) are in the minority. You are well-educated, follow current events religiously, and properly vet various stories on your own. The majoriy of voters don't fall under any of those catigories.

2) This brings me to my second point. The American electorate is dumb as hell. They really are.

3) The American electorate care more about image than substance or policy. Especially voters in my generation. It has always been that way. The debates of 1960 are the classic example of this.

Yes, tax returns ought to have nothing to do with the whom you should vote for president. The average person really doesn't follow this story nor care about Romney's tax returns. However, they are drawn to a candidate by their perceived image.

Obama is a likable guy. If you had the choice between having a beer with Obama or Romney (excluding politics) almost everyone would choose Obama over Romney. Romney is absolutely awkward. The more he tries to act "normal" or like "common folks" the more awkward and out of place he looks.

Fast forward to this saga. Like I mentioned before, the average person probably isn't following this story. They don't have to for this to be damaging to his image. All the Dems have to do is plant the seed of suspicion that he doesn't pay his "fair share" of taxes. Brilliant move by Obama. Not only does he plant that seed via Reid, but he is also not attached to it in any way if Romney renigs on his promise and releases his tax returns. The negative commercials, parodies, etc closer to the election when people start to pay more attention will use this against him and paint him as "one of them" to a T.

As far as Romney is concerned, he is in a real lose/lose situation. If he doesn't release them, Dems can plant a forest full of seeds in the minds of voters as to why. If he does, he has flip-flopped yet again and whatever he obviously doesn't want out in the public light, will be illuminated.

It is scary how much this election resembles the '04 election. The GOP shot themselves in the foot big time by nominating Romney. They played right into the hands of Obama. Obama knows that policy or the economy is irrelevant when he can so easily paint such a vivid negative picture in the minds of voters about the character of his opponent.
 
#118
#118
PKT_VOL said:
Come on guys, this is campaign politics.

1) You guys (as are a decent majority of posters here) are in the minority. You are well-educated, follow current events religiously, and properly vet various stories on your own. The majoriy of voters don't fall under any of those catigories.

2) This brings me to my second point. The American electorate is dumb as hell. They really are.

3) The American electorate care more about image than substance or policy. Especially voters in my generation. It has always been that way. The debates of 1960 are the classic example of this.

Yes, tax returns ought to have nothing to do with the whom you should vote for president. The average person really doesn't follow this story nor care about Romney's tax returns. However, they are drawn to a candidate by their perceived image.

Obama is a likable guy. If you had the choice between having a beer with Obama or Romney (excluding politics) almost everyone would choose Obama over Romney. Romney is absolutely awkward. The more he tries to act "normal" or like "common folks" the more awkward and out of place he looks.

Fast forward to this saga. Like I mentioned before, the average person probably isn't following this story. They don't have to for this to be damaging to his image. All the Dems have to do is plant the seed of suspicion that he doesn't pay his "fair share" of taxes. Brilliant move by Obama. Not only does he plant that seed via Reid, but he is also not attached to it in any way if Romney renigs on his promise and releases his tax returns. The negative commercials, parodies, etc closer to the election when people start to pay more attention will use this against him and paint him as "one of them" to a T.

As far as Romney is concerned, he is in a real lose/lose situation. If he doesn't release them, Dems can plant a forest full of seeds in the minds of voters as to why. If he does, he has flip-flopped yet again and whatever he obviously doesn't want out in the public light, will be illuminated.

It is scary how much this election resembles the '04 election. The GOP shot themselves in the foot big time by nominating Romney. They played right into the hands of Obama. Obama knows that policy or the economy is irrelevant when he can so easily paint such a vivid negative picture in the minds of voters about the character of his opponent.
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So you're saying that Obama is swiftboating Romney?
 
#119
#119
Danl said:
So you're saying that Obama is swiftboating Romney?
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You could say that. I think this is way more harmful because Romney was a CEO of a multimillion dollar company. He is worth mega-millions. Nothing wrong with that in and of itself.

However, against the backdrop of the 2008 financial meltdown, the 99% movement, high unemployment, rampant outsourcing, etc. that is not the image or the candidate you want for president. Again, it doesn't matter what actually caused the meltdown, it only matters what the uneducated American electorate perceives as the culprit. The animosity and distrust of multimillionaire corporate CEO's is unprecedented.

It is absolutely perplexing why they would nominate such a candidate this election cycle.
 
#120
#120
PKT_VOL said:
If he doesn't release them, Dems can plant a forest full of seeds in the minds of voters as to why. If he does, he has flip-flopped yet again and whatever he obviously doesn't want out in the public light, will be illuminated.
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I know it's unlikely, but it would be funny if he was holding out his tax returns just to let the democrats foam at the mouth about how evil he is. Then in say Sept or August, release the tax returns showing that there's nothing going on really. Would be months of wasted assault by the democrats and would further prove they have nothing to campaign on, just make up stuff.

Unlikely, but seems like something some political strategist would thing of doing. It's pretty obvious to everyone what the Obama campaign is gunning for. Easily predictable.
 
#121
#121
interesting article about the "double standard" of treatment of unsupported personal allegations.

That’s not only cynical, but dangerous. In allowing Reid to air an unsourced allegation from the floor of the United States Senate and then to argue that the burden of proof lies with the accused and not the accuser, Democrats have set a new low for modern political campaigns. It’s exactly the kind of “politics of personal destruction” the president promised he would not engage in. Let’s hope it doesn’t become the beginning of a tradition.*
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Bachmann and Reid: A Troubling Double Standard | RealClearPolitics
 
#122
#122
PKT_VOL said:
Come on guys, this is campaign politics.

1) You guys (as are a decent majority of posters here) are in the minority. You are well-educated, follow current events religiously, and properly vet various stories on your own. The majoriy of voters don't fall under any of those catigories.

2) This brings me to my second point. The American electorate is dumb as hell. They really are.

3) The American electorate care more about image than substance or policy. Especially voters in my generation. It has always been that way. The debates of 1960 are the classic example of this.

Yes, tax returns ought to have nothing to do with the whom you should vote for president. The average person really doesn't follow this story nor care about Romney's tax returns. However, they are drawn to a candidate by their perceived image.

Obama is a likable guy. If you had the choice between having a beer with Obama or Romney (excluding politics) almost everyone would choose Obama over Romney. Romney is absolutely awkward. The more he tries to act "normal" or like "common folks" the more awkward and out of place he looks.

Fast forward to this saga. Like I mentioned before, the average person probably isn't following this story. They don't have to for this to be damaging to his image. All the Dems have to do is plant the seed of suspicion that he doesn't pay his "fair share" of taxes. Brilliant move by Obama. Not only does he plant that seed via Reid, but he is also not attached to it in any way if Romney renigs on his promise and releases his tax returns. The negative commercials, parodies, etc closer to the election when people start to pay more attention will use this against him and paint him as "one of them" to a T.

As far as Romney is concerned, he is in a real lose/lose situation. If he doesn't release them, Dems can plant a forest full of seeds in the minds of voters as to why. If he does, he has flip-flopped yet again and whatever he obviously doesn't want out in the public light, will be illuminated.

It is scary how much this election resembles the '04 election. The GOP shot themselves in the foot big time by nominating Romney. They played right into the hands of Obama. Obama knows that policy or the economy is irrelevant when he can so easily paint such a vivid negative picture in the minds of voters about the character of his opponent.
Click to expand...

All I've argued is that they ought to be irrelevant. I never claimed it won't work as a campaign tactic. I simply been saying why they shouldn't be relevant.

The same is true for Obama's transcripts - they ought to be irrelevant.

It's a distraction but may be a useful campaign tactic but it's dirty as hell. As I've said over and over - the people clamoring for this info are doing so to discredit their opponent, NOT because it is essential information to choose their preferred candidate.
 
#123
#123
volinbham said:
All I've argued is that they ought to be irrelevant. I never claimed it won't work as a campaign tactic. I simply been saying why they shouldn't be relevant.

The same is true for Obama's transcripts - they ought to be irrelevant.

It's a distraction but may be a useful campaign tactic but it's dirty as hell. As I've said over and over - the people clamoring for this info are doing so to discredit their opponent, NOT because it is essential information to choose their preferred candidate.
Click to expand...

That is all this campaign has been about thus far, destroy the opponent... Neither side is dicussing policy.
 
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