Reid Suggests Romney Paid No Taxes for 10 Years

[utvolpj]

and the GOP.

not necessarily. In a country failing like it is now the incumbent definitely doesn't want to run on his record

 

[milohimself]

and the GOP.

.

Like I said, the uneducated margin will decide the election. Most, if not all the people on the whole board already know who they'd pick if they were given a choice between Obama and Romney (I say that because it still seems there are a couple pondering voting third party).

 

[milohimself]

not necessarily. In a country failing like it is now the incumbent definitely doesn't want to run on his record

That's neither here nor there.

If it was the case, then current polling wouldn't show Obama with the 247-191 lead in the electoral college.

If the Obama campaign can successfuly paint Romney as a rich doucher and a legal tax cheat, as juvenile and stupid as it may be, it could get the job done.

Such is the state of things when Presidents are picked by appealing to people in Iowa and Florida every four years.

 

[volinbham]

That is all this campaign has been about thus far, destroy the opponent... Neither side is dicussing policy.

For the most part. I would distinguish between record/comment based stuff (like the Bain ads or the Obama's broken promises) and this type thing that insinuates personal character flaws that are not policy linked.

Can't think of one against Obama but I wouldn't be surprised to see one.

 

[milohimself]

All that stuff got played out in 08. Birtherism, transcripts, etc. would all be a retread and I'm sure the Romney camp has the sense that it would do more harm than good.

I will give the Romney camp credit for running a cleaner campaign, but that's more a function of running against an incumbent than anything.

The message, however, is "He's been in for a few years now and things still suck." Which is an appeal to the uneducated. That ever-shrinking group of people who are on the up and up with current events and truly undecided (I would count myself among them except for my high levels of skepticism and general distaste for most of the Republican party) are left asking "Okay, Mr. Romney. We agree that Obama has not been very good at his job. What are you going to do that is different?"

In short, I still have no clue where the beef is on policy issues with him. I recognize that naming deductions on the chopping block to make tax cuts revenue-neutral are a big disadvantage politically. He would get led to slaughter if he came out and said he would consider getting rid of the mortgage interest deduction. And he also engages in the same old fruitless game of bickering over rates that the Dems play rather than proposing any ideas for substantive tax reform.

In short, I get the same feeling from his campaign that I got from the ACA getting passed.

"Healthcare sucks right now, amirite? We have this new plan, we promise it's better, pass it to see what's in it."
"The sitting president sucks right now, amirite? I promise I'll do better, elect me to see what my actual policies will be."

 

[milohimself]

The only thing we've got is his four years in Mass, where IMO he proved equally incapable of reaching across the aisle as Obama. I count myself highly more skeptical of tying corporate executive experience to legislation than you lot. There is a whole, massive set of dynamics that simply doesn't exist anywhere in the private sector.

 

[volinbham]

The only thing we've got is his four years in Mass, where IMO he proved equally incapable of reaching across the aisle as Obama. I count myself highly more skeptical of tying corporate executive experience to legislation than you lot. There is a whole, massive set of dynamics that simply doesn't exist anywhere in the private sector.

Gotta disagree there - he had no choice since the MA House and Senate was predominantly Democratic. I think most of his policies ended up being crafted in a way that would work across that aisle. Not sure if that's good or bad but I think he has a history of working across the aisle.

As for his policy plans I really don't want much out of the POTUS other than a stable environment for the economy and one that is not negative about business.

1) All of the above energy policy - current admin has been regulatory-wise hostile to fossil fuels and over committed to renewables.

2) Simplified and stable tax code

3) Cost/benefit - high bar for new regulations attitude.

I think Romney has advocated those three and that along with a tone that doesn't routinely threaten the successful will go along way to creating an environment that lets the economy flourish.

Add to that, we need entitlement reform but for the economy alone the above 3 would go along way. 4 more years of the above 3 as they are now and we'll muddle along at the "new normal"

 

[BigPapaVol]

All that stuff got played out in 08. Birtherism, transcripts, etc. would all be a retread and I'm sure the Romney camp has the sense that it would do more harm than good.

I will give the Romney camp credit for running a cleaner campaign, but that's more a function of running against an incumbent than anything.

The message, however, is "He's been in for a few years now and things still suck." Which is an appeal to the uneducated. That ever-shrinking group of people who are on the up and up with current events and truly undecided (I would count myself among them except for my high levels of skepticism and general distaste for most of the Republican party) are left asking "Okay, Mr. Romney. We agree that Obama has not been very good at his job. What are you going to do that is different?"

In short, I still have no clue where the beef is on policy issues with him. I recognize that naming deductions on the chopping block to make tax cuts revenue-neutral are a big disadvantage politically. He would get led to slaughter if he came out and said he would consider getting rid of the mortgage interest deduction. And he also engages in the same old fruitless game of bickering over rates that the Dems play rather than proposing any ideas for substantive tax reform.

In short, I get the same feeling from his campaign that I got from the ACA getting passed.

"Healthcare sucks right now, amirite? We have this new plan, we promise it's better, pass it to see what's in it."
"The sitting president sucks right now, amirite? I promise I'll do better, elect me to see what my actual policies will be."

the transcripts played out?

 

[milohimself]

the transcripts played out?

It's been getting hacked at one way or another going on almost five years now. I didn't say a word about by whom or how to what effect.

 

[milohimself]

Gotta disagree there - he had no choice since the MA House and Senate was predominantly Democratic. I think most of his policies ended up being crafted in a way that would work across that aisle. Not sure if that's good or bad but I think he has a history of working across the aisle.

As for his policy plans I really don't want much out of the POTUS other than a stable environment for the economy and one that is not negative about business.

1) All of the above energy policy - current admin has been regulatory-wise hostile to fossil fuels and over committed to renewables.

2) Simplified and stable tax code

3) Cost/benefit - high bar for new regulations attitude.

I think Romney has advocated those three and that along with a tone that doesn't routinely threaten the successful will go along way to creating an environment that lets the economy flourish.

Add to that, we need entitlement reform but for the economy alone the above 3 would go along way. 4 more years of the above 3 as they are now and we'll muddle along at the "new normal"

That's all well and good but he's going to have to work through the same meat grinder as everybody else, I don't see that changing any time soon.

Obama's rhetoric sucks but I really couldn't give less of a damn about what he has to say, because there are worlds between that and how things actually get done.

The first point you made is the only one I see having any appreciable difference between the two, even then it would be peanuts.

I have absolutely zero faith in any real tax reform other than slashed rates, which will further **** the deficit. I want lower taxes as much as the next guy, but through reform; keeping what we have now and just cutting is only going to make things worse.

Regulation under Obama has been tough talk up front and gutless underneath. That train is on the same track as it was under Bush and will continue to be if Romney gets elected.

Just because Romney isn't prone to vaguely leftist rhetoric is nowhere near enough reason for me to vote for him. Same system will produce the same results, regardless of party affiliation. The only difference is facade and talking points.

 

[volinbham]

That's all well and good but he's going to have to work through the same meat grinder as everybody else, I don't see that changing any time soon.

Obama's rhetoric sucks but I really couldn't give less of a damn about what he has to say, because there are worlds between that and how things actually get done.

The first point you made is the only one I see having any appreciable difference between the two, even then it would be peanuts.

I have absolutely zero faith in any real tax reform other than slashed rates, which will further **** the deficit. I want lower taxes as much as the next guy, but through reform; keeping what we have now and just cutting is only going to make things worse.

Regulation under Obama has been tough talk up front and gutless underneath. That train is on the same track as it was under Bush and will continue to be if Romney gets elected.

Just because Romney isn't prone to vaguely leftist rhetoric is nowhere near enough reason for me to vote for him. Same system will produce the same results, regardless of party affiliation. The only difference is facade and talking points.

Points 1 and 3 are easily doable since they are agency driven rather than legislatively driven. Change the leadership at EPA, NRLB, HHS, etc. and you change the regulatory landscape considerably. Easily doable.

Tax reform tough but even if Romney pledged to not change the tax code for 4 years we'd be ahead of the game.

 

[BigPapaVol]

It's been getting hacked at one way or another going on almost five years now. I didn't say a word about by whom or how to what effect.

what you're saying is that it was all but ignored by the mainstream media so nothing has come of it.

 

[PKT_VOL]

I know it's unlikely, but it would be funny if he was holding out his tax returns just to let the democrats foam at the mouth about how evil he is. Then in say Sept or August, release the tax returns showing that there's nothing going on really. Would be months of wasted assault by the democrats and would further prove they have nothing to campaign on, just make up stuff.

Unlikely, but seems like something some political strategist would thing of doing. It's pretty obvious to everyone what the Obama campaign is gunning for. Easily predictable.

Yeah, highly unlikely, it would be dumb politically.

 

[PKT_VOL]

All I've argued is that they ought to be irrelevant. I never claimed it won't work as a campaign tactic. I simply been saying why they shouldn't be relevant.

The same is true for Obama's transcripts - they ought to be irrelevant.

It's a distraction but may be a useful campaign tactic but it's dirty as hell. As I've said over and over - the people clamoring for this info are doing so to discredit their opponent, NOT because it is essential information to choose their preferred candidate.

Common bham. Since when does the American electorate care about economics or policy?

It is all about perception of the candidate this election cycle. The tax returns are a gift wrapped present from Romney to Obama.

If I was a betting man, I'd bet that Obama is laughing his @$$ off at how the GOP has run their presidential campaign from primaries 'til now. They have pretty much made wrong move after wrong move from the get go. An election that should have been an easy slam dunk for the GOP has turned into Obama's dream. Hell, if was a conspiracy theorist, I might even venture to say that the GOP is subtly trying to throw the election.

 

[milohimself]

Common bham. Since when does the American electorate care about economics or policy?

It is all about perception of the candidate this election cycle. The tax returns are a gift wrapped present from Romney to Obama.

If I was a betting man, I'd bet that Obama is laughing his @$$ off at how the GOP has run their presidential campaign from primaries 'til now. They have pretty much made wrong move after wrong move from the get go. An election that should have been an easy slam dunk for the GOP has turned into Obama's dream. Hell, if was a conspiracy theorist, I might even venture to say that the GOP is subtly trying to throw the election.

I've been saying since the Iowa caucus that this will play out like 04.

Every Dem in the country thought there was no way Bush could get reelected, then Kerry got successfuly painted as a rich doucher with a shady background and zero conviction on anything and lost.

 

[milohimself]

what you're saying is that it was all but ignored by the mainstream media so nothing has come of it.

Fox News is not mainstream? They have talked about it plenty. Last I checked more people watch them just about everything else combined. Can't think of anything more mainstream than that.

 

[BigPapaVol]

I've been saying since the Iowa caucus that this will play out like 04.

Every Dem in the country thought there was no way Bush could get reelected, then Kerry got successfuly painted as a rich doucher with a shady background and zero conviction on anything and lost.

This isn't like in '04 because Kerry was painted as a blatant liar and war protesting liberal POS and Rs and Ds alike believed Kerry would win.

This time, I don't think the Rs believe Romney to be a viable candidate and certainly view the imcumbency to be the single strongest factor in this race. Both candidates suck. Romney struggles to connect and Obama's just a clown. Romney is the more qualified to be dealing with spending and economics by light years and that should be the driving issue, but he's going to struggle in trying to overcome being a rich stiff.

 

[BigPapaVol]

Fox News is not mainstream? They have talked about it plenty. Last I checked more people watch them just about everything else combined. Can't think of anything more mainstream than that.

how is Fox mainstream? Fox is a very focused outfit and caters to a small subset of the populace and is further winnowed down by being cable news.

The cable news folks can't even begin to touch the networks and the national newspapers. It's not even close.

 

[milohimself]

This isn't like in '04 because Kerry was painted as a blatant liar and war protesting liberal POS and Rs and Ds alike believed Kerry would win.

This time, I don't think the Rs believe Romney to be a viable candidate and certainly view the imcumbency to be the single strongest factor in this race. Both candidates suck. Romney struggles to connect and Obama's just a clown. Romney is the more qualified to be dealing with spending and economics by light years and that should be the driving issue, but he's going to struggle in trying to overcome being a rich stiff.

Corporatist tax-dodging cheating scum is the same to mouth-breathing liberals as war protesting POS is to mouth-breathing conservatives. The uneducated in the middle like neither. Different song, same tune.

 

[milohimself]

how is Fox mainstream? Fox is a very focused outfit and caters to a small subset of the populace and is further winnowed down by being cable news.

The cable news folks can't even begin to touch the networks and the national newspapers. It's not even close.

Actually, no.

This may be from 2010, but it's still fairly relveant. Pew looked at this. 73% of people in the US rely on cable news, only outpaced by local outlets at 78% (local programming, not national). National newspapers check in at just 17%. Just under half of all people that watch cable news watch FNC.

How is that not mainstream?

Just for the extra,

Cable News Ratings for Tuesday, July 31, 2012 - Ratings | TVbytheNumbers

There is FNC laying waste to everyone else last week.

 

[BigPapaVol]

Corporatist tax-dodging cheating scum is the same to mouth-breathing liberals as war protesting POS is to mouth-breathing conservatives. The uneducated in the middle like neither. Different song, same tune.

different tune. Who, in large number on either side, believes Obama is going to get beat?

Last time, large numbers on both sides thought there was no prayer for Bush, even with the incumbent's advantage.

 

[milohimself]

different tune. Who, in large number on either side, believes Obama is going to get beat?

Last time, large numbers on both sides thought there was no prayer for Bush, even with the incumbent's advantage.

Shall I bookmark every time in the last 3-4+ months somebody has come on here with the latest poll showing Romney ahead in a popular vote?

 

[PKT_VOL]

I've been saying since the Iowa caucus that this will play out like 04.

Every Dem in the country thought there was no way Bush could get reelected, then Kerry got successfuly painted as a rich doucher with a shady background and zero conviction on anything and lost.

Yeah, however, this time around it is against the backdrop of the 2008 financial meltdown, the 99% movement, high unemployment, rampant outsourcing, etc. The animosity and distrust of multimillionaire corporate CEO's is unprecedented.

 

[milohimself]

Yeah, however, this time around it is against the backdrop of the 2008 financial meltdown, the 99% movement, high unemployment, rampant outsourcing, etc. The animosity and distrust of multimillionaire corporate CEO's is unprecedented.

Mostly among people that are already affirmed Obama supporters, Paulies, anarchists, greens, etc.

I don't think the undecided voter feels any differently towards corporate America than they did before the 99% movement. Maybe a little. Not much.

 

[PKT_VOL]

This isn't like in '04 because Kerry was painted as a blatant liar and war protesting liberal POS and Rs and Ds alike believed Kerry would win.

This time, I don't think the Rs believe Romney to be a viable candidate and certainly view the imcumbency to be the single strongest factor in this race.

No. I dunno know any Republican that truly likes Romney. They just believe virtually anybody is better than Obama.

Both candidates suck. Romney struggles to connect and Obama's just a clown. Romney is the more qualified to be dealing with spending and economics by light years and that should be the driving issue, but he's going to struggle in trying to overcome being a rich stiff.

Its going to be the death of him and the GOP's effort to overthrow Obama. Dumb move GOP.