Religious debate (split from main board)

#1,451
#1,451
rjd970 said:
I'm not ruling out anything, but I am sure enough that I have no problem making that bet, just the way you make the same bet bet with regard to any other religion. Your the same "atheist" with regard to any other religion...the difference is I just take it one God further than you do.
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That is deep. Sad....but deep.
Good luck with that.
 
#1,452
#1,452
rjd970 said:
I'm not ruling out anything, but I am sure enough that I have no problem making that bet, just the way you make the same bet bet with regard to any other religion. Your the same "atheist" with regard to any other religion...the difference is I just take it one God further than you do.
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reminds me of the quote

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”
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and pic

http://friendlyatheist.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/gods-we-dont-believe-in.jpg
 
#1,453
#1,453
ridethelightening said:
The sentence before the one you put in bold I said we are alike.

I can't sit here and say I don't have doubts. Of course I have doubts, doesn't mean I stop believing
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Again, where we are different. When evidence suggest otherwise, I will fully stop believing. I doubt you will.
 
#1,455
#1,455
IPorange said:
Convenient. There will always be gaps in human knowledge where people can fit a concept of "God." That doesn't make it real or true. But sure, just keep kicking that can down the street.
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And there will always be gaps in science where you make assumptions based on what you believe and have been taught
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#1,456
#1,456
ridethelightening said:
Yes, I am defending the Church of Christ because I believe in it. We have enough detractors (as in this thread) to separate ourselves the way we have. My only beef with you is you keep saying we are legalistic and I have tried to show you that we are instructed to perform acts. But we must do them with love. The love of Christ. I asked what the greatest command was. It is love. Love your God, love your neighbor. Everything else will fall into place. That is taught to me every time I enter my Church building's doors. That is not legalistic
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I correct my kids when they are wrong about things BECAUSE I love them. See the correlation here?
 
#1,457
#1,457
rjd970 said:
Again, where we are different. When evidence suggest otherwise, I will fully stop believing. I doubt you will.
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What evidence have given to convince me otherwise? I got a book. A book that has passed the test of time. Reads today just like it did when it was written. Powerful to me
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#1,458
#1,458
ridethelightening said:
What evidence have given to convince me otherwise? I got a book. A book that has passed the test of time. Reads today just like it did when it was written. Powerful to me
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What evidence would it take to get you to stop believing? What exactly would constitute proof to you? Just wondering.
 
#1,459
#1,459
rjd970 said:
Who said a "supernatural" (ie..."unknown") force is ruled out? They are just saying there is nothing to suggest it was your God that did it.
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But they don't take the intellectual high ground here and say that there is no evidence he didn't either. The bottom line here is that those on the side of science who do not believe are just as guilty of making the same kind of absolute statements they criticize the religious for.

I am not saying that Christians or any other member of any number of religions for that matter have been very narrow minded at times, even to this very day. What it all boils down to is there are the detractors who say science disproves God (or at the very least casts all but complete doubt) and the religious that assign every thing to God's will. Neither can prove or disprove anything they say, yet both claim the high ground. One is no better than the other.
 
#1,462
#1,462
KB5252 said:
But they don't take the intellectual high ground here and say that there is no evidence he didn't either.

Really? What evidence is there that the flying spaghetti monster didn't either? Should we take that explanation just as seriously? All the scientifis community is saying is "we don't know, but here is what the evidence points toward"

The bottom line here is that those on the side of science who do not believe are just as guilty of making the same kind of absolute statements they criticize the religious for.

No they aren't, as least not on the same level as the religious crowd saying God did it. There is a component of uncertainty that allows for modification of the belief or outright dismissal of it with the science crowd. The other camp just says "It's God".

I am not saying that Christians or any other member of any number of religions for that matter have been very narrow minded at times, even to this very day. What it all boils down to is there are the detractors who say science disproves God (or at the very least casts all but complete doubt) and the religious that assign every thing to God's will. Neither can prove or disprove anything they say, yet both claim the high ground. One is no better than the other.
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Not all beliefs are on equal footing, it is as simple as that. One belief here, while not having the ultimate high ground, does in fact sit higher.
 
#1,465
#1,465
rjd970 said:
What if it isn't is my point.

The religious crowd on here fail to even entertain that. Even taking it a step further, they say Christianity is the best explanation.
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Speaking for myself....you seem to be projecting this theory with no evidence.
I will 100% admit that I could be wrong. I am not willing to risk eternity on it.
The quality of my life is better BECAUSE of my faith. Science is science and has its place in our world. It does not rule my world.
That is why I ask you....are you willing to take that chance?
 
#1,466
#1,466
T-TownVol said:
Speaking for myself....you seem to be projecting this theory with no evidence.
I will 100% admit that I could be wrong. I am not willing to risk eternity on it.
The quality of my life is better BECAUSE of my faith. Science is science and has its place in our world. It does not rule my world.
That is why I ask you....are you willing to take that chance?
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If a being designs a high rational creature like a human, then expects them to make an irrational decision, they are not much of a God. It's kind of sick.

I should make a choice to be religious (Christian specifically, since apparently all other religions are laughable) out of fear and designed ignorance? Doesn't sound like a good God.
 
#1,467
#1,467
T-TownVol said:
Speaking for myself....you seem to be projecting this theory with no evidence.
I will 100% admit that I could be wrong. I am not willing to risk eternity on it.
The quality of my life is better BECAUSE of my faith. Science is science and has its place in our world. It does not rule my world.
That is why I ask you....are you willing to take that chance?
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What would it take for you to admit you might be wrong?

I am completely willing to take that chance, and I don't lay awake a night worrying about my eternity anymore than you do because you are not Muslim.

This is a good read on Pascal's wager, which is exactly what you are saying:

On Faith Panelists Blog: The Empty Wager - Sam Harris

Here's the punchline, in case you don't have the time:

Pascal’s wager suggests that a rational person can knowingly believe a proposition purely out of concern for his future gratification. I suspect no one ever acquires his religious beliefs in this way (Pascal certainly didn’t). But even if some people do, who could be so foolish as to think that such beliefs are likely to be true?
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#1,468
#1,468
IPorange said:
If a being designs a high rational creature like a human, then expects them to make an irrational decision, they are not much of a God. It's kind of sick.

I should make a choice to be religious (Christian specifically, since apparently all other religions are laughable) out of fear and designed ignorance? Doesn't sound like a good God.
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Right.

There are so many religions in the world that the reasonable conclusion would be that they are all wrong, if for nothing else, then on probabilistic grounds alone.
 
#1,470
#1,470
ridethelightening said:
So its my job to interpret it? Did you discover every scientific theory on your own, or are you taking somebody elses' word on some things?
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You said it reads the same as when it was written. Clearly it doesn't.

I didn't make any claim like that.
 
#1,472
#1,472
rjd970 said:
What would it take for you to admit you might be wrong?
I am completely willing to take that chance, and I don't lay awake a night worrying about my eternity anymore than you do because you are not Muslim.

This is a good read on Pascal's wager, which is exactly what you are saying:

On Faith Panelists Blog: The Empty Wager - Sam Harris

Here's the punchline, in case you don't have the time:
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Can you not read. I just did in my post.
How many times are you going to post the "wager" article? It still says the same thing it said the other 10 times you have posted it.
What is the facination with throwing other religions up at us? It is a tired arguement.
 
#1,473
#1,473
ridethelightening said:
So words and meanings in Hebrew and Greek can't be conveyed in our languages today?
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They don't always directly translate, especially over time. Connotations change. I'm sure you have a preferred English translation of the Bible. King James is often held up as the "original and best" for English translations, but in fact has many errors from when it was translated from copies of copies of Greek texts. Nothing really major or ground-shaking, but differences.
 
#1,474
#1,474
IPorange said:
If a being designs a high rational creature like a human, then expects them to make an irrational decision, they are not much of a God. It's kind of sick.

I should make a choice to be religious (Christian specifically, since apparently all other religions are laughable) out of fear and designed ignorance? Doesn't sound like a good God.
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I have said many times that religion is man made. Try another excuse.

What makes belief in a creator irrational?
 
#1,475
#1,475
IPorange said:
They don't always directly translate, especially over time. Connotations change. I'm sure you have a preferred English translation of the Bible. King James is often held up as the "original and best" for English translations, but in fact has many errors from when it was translated from copies of copies of Greek texts. Nothing really major or ground-shaking, but differences.
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Legalist!
 
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