Religious debate (split from main board)

#1,528
#1,528
utfantilidie said:
I like the judge not lest ye be judged verse myself.
Click to expand...

Me too. And how can you just include verse 1?
“Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
 
#1,529
#1,529
That sounds a lot like this:
John 7:24 24 Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”
 
#1,532
#1,532
Matthew 5 has a good perspective of what Jesus thought of legalism.

Orthodoxy Versus Hypocrisy you will find referenced in vs 17-20

The stage is now being set for the contrast Jesus made between Himself and the scribes and Pharisees. The real culprits were the scribes and Pharisees. They did not regard the Old Testament Law highly enough. They had set it aside, preferring their own rules, regulations and traditions reference Mark 7:7-9. Legalism seeks to win God’s favor/relationship by the keeping of some code of conduct.

The Errors of Jewish Interpretation you will find referenced in vs 21-48

My favorite all time misinterpretation is an eye for eye. In no way shape of form does that mean take the others person eye. Jewish law was based on compensation. The person who lost the eye would be compensated by how much the eye is worth.

Legalism.....

Ignores or underestimates the role of inner attitude and motivation...

Focuses upon self-effort rather than on divine enablement...

Encourages pride rather than humble dependence upon God...

Tends to use the Scriptures to reinforce our own preconceived ideas and preferences...

Tends to conceive of our acceptance with God as performance oriented...

Tends to impose one’s personal convictions on others, and to condemn them if they fail to live up to our rules...


 
#1,533
#1,533
I fail to see where James tells us to disobey Christ and the teachings of the apostles. James is certainly a great book, and James tells us how we should live as Christians. James also tells us to receive the word, which is able to save our souls (James 1:21).

James 1:22 - But be DOERS of the word, and not hearers only

We must obey what the Bible tells us if we wish to receive salvation. That is something we MUST DO. This would be strict adherence to the word. Anything else is disobedience.
 
#1,536
#1,536
The "obey the teachings" is what we are to do after we are saved and should come out of our love for Christ. This is not a factor in obtaining salvation.

All we have to do is ask for salvation and mean it.

Once we are saved, can we lose our salvation?
 
#1,539
#1,539
One thing you must DO to be saved is hear the word:

Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?

Wouldn't you agree that this is one thing you must do? This is something that MUST be done BEFORE you receive salvation. You can not believe in something you've never heard of. Agree?
 
#1,540
#1,540
That verse always reminds me of this one:

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
 
#1,541
#1,541
salutethehill said:
One thing you must DO to be saved is hear the word:

Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?

Wouldn't you agree that this is one thing you must do? This is something that MUST be done BEFORE you receive salvation. You can not believe in something you've never heard of. Agree?
Click to expand...

Romans 10 is a passage about the Jews trying to disqualify Paul as a "preacher" of the Gospel because he was the "preacher to the Gentiles". They did not like him. Has NOTHING to do with salvation.

Just like OE pointed out, you can "pluck" out a verse to make just about any arguement that you want. The key to understanding is context.

So, at what point has a person "heard" enough to be ready to be saved? Are we talking confirmation classes or special schooling? Do you see where I am going with this? Of course they will have "heard" before they can accept Christ. You are splitting hairs with this one.
 
#1,543
#1,543
T-TownVol said:
Once we are saved, can we lose our salvation?
Click to expand...

Great question:

1 Corinthians 15:1-2 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

2 Peter 2:20-21 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.

If we want to be saved we MUST obey what the word teaches. That is something we must DO. There is no message clearer than that in the Bible.
 
#1,544
#1,544
salutethehill said:
That verse always reminds me of this one:

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Click to expand...

Great passage and a wonderful way for a saved person to approach life. Which, by the way, is the context of this passage.
 
#1,545
#1,545
T-TownVol said:
So, at what point has a person "heard" enough to be ready to be saved? Are we talking confirmation classes or special schooling? Do you see where I am going with this? Of course they will have "heard" before they can accept Christ. You are splitting hairs with this one.
Click to expand...
So then you would agree that this is something a person must do BEFORE they are saved, correct?

I am not trying to split hairs. I have always had a difficult time understanding the concept of "doing nothing to be saved." That's completely inconsistent with the Bible's teachings, and impossible.

I also want to point out that it's difficult to relay emotion over a message board. When I capitalize or bold something I'm not "message board shouting", or whatever, I'm just trying to emphasize my point.
 
#1,546
#1,546
salutethehill said:
Great question:

1 Corinthians 15:1-2 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

2 Peter 2:20-21 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.

If we want to be saved we MUST obey what the word teaches. That is something we must DO. There is no message clearer than that in the Bible.
Click to expand...

Both passages are sermons to people that are ALREADY members of the Church. They are "fire and brimstone" statements to motivate a body of believers. Once again, not salvation related.
 
#1,547
#1,547
T-TownVol said:
Both passages are sermons to people that are ALREADY members of the Church. They are "fire and brimstone" statements to motivate a body of believers. Once again, not salvation related.
Click to expand...

Correct, your question was, "Can we lose our salavation once we've obtained it." 2 Peter 2:20-21 (I quoted earlier) is a good answer.
 
#1,548
#1,548
Acts 2:37 - 37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?”

I'm sure you've heard this before, TT. The Jews knew there was something they MUST DO to be saved and they needed to know what. They obviously believed, but their sins were obviously not yet forgiven (based on verse 38).

I'm kinda doing this while working, so if my attendance is sporatic, I apologize. I will respond, it may just take a while.
 
#1,549
#1,549
salutethehill said:
So then you would agree that this is something a person must do BEFORE they are saved, correct?

I am not trying to split hairs. I have always had a difficult time understanding the concept of "doing nothing to be saved." That's completely inconsistent with the Bible's teachings, and impossible.

I also want to point out that it's difficult to relay emotion over a message board. When I capitalize or bold something I'm not "message board shouting", or whatever, I'm just trying to emphasize my point.
Click to expand...

I have never said anything about doing nothing. The point that I am making is that it is not something that has to be "worked" at. Salvation is a simple prayer to Christ. All the other "stuff" is what we SHOULD do as believers and to show our love for what Christ did for us.

I spent 35 years struggling with "earning" my salvation. That is not the way that God wants us to live our lives. We need not worry about our eternal home, just do our best to live a life that mirrors Christ.
 
#1,550
#1,550
salutethehill said:
Correct, your question was, "Can we lose our salavation once we've obtained it." 2 Peter 2:20-21 (I quoted earlier) is a good answer.
Click to expand...

You are reading too much into the passage. He is not telling them that they are lost. Just that they might as well have not been saved if they are going to act the way that they are acting. Fear is a style of preaching.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top