Religious debate (split from main board)

#1,577
#1,577
OrangeEmpire said:
I find it absolutely horrifying that one would believe that we have any thing do with salvation. Our actions will never ever be able to supply the sacrifice needed to cover our sins.

This is the beautiful story of grace.

Legalism = I have control of my salvation....... frightening!
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We aren't the sacrifice, we are showing that we believe in Christ's death on the cross, and washing ourselves with the blood of that sacrifice. Our God will not be in the presence of sin. The Holy Spirit washes that sin away so that we may be in his presence. It is by the grace of God that he sent his Son as that atoning sacrifice.

"For he that knew no sin became sin so that you and I may have everlasting life"
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#1,578
#1,578
OrangeEmpire said:
Come on, you are really going old law salvation.........

We have a good discussion going......
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I'm not going away from it. They are in Heaven because they followed the laws as they were commanded. Christ's death formed a new covenant with man, and the laws are laid out for us. Believing in Jesus is awesome, believing in what he taught, and doing as he commanded us to do, gets me to Heaven.

"For even the demons believe and shudder"
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#1,582
#1,582
ridethelightening said:
I'm not going away from it. They are in Heaven because they followed the laws as they were commanded. Christ's death formed a new covenant with man, and the laws are laid out for us. Believing in Jesus is awesome, believing in what he taught, and doing as he commanded us to do, gets me to Heaven.

"For even the demons believe and shudder"
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Read Max Lucado (a church of Christ preacher), in his very first book, on the first page, he says that many in his own Church will be totally shocked when they get to heaven and "they", the c of C, are not the ONLY ones there.
Salvation is not earned!
 
#1,586
#1,586
T-TownVol said:
Read Max Lucado (a church of Christ preacher), in his very first book, on the first page, he says that many in his own Church will be totally shocked when they get to heaven and "they", the c of C, are not the ONLY ones there.
Salvation is not earned!
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I'm drawing a fine line in the sand right here. Nobody on this Earth knows who is going to Heaven. Jesus will decide our fate
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#1,587
#1,587
ridethelightening said:
What say you about the demons believing and shuddering in the presence of the Lord?
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I say that your continuing to put that as a signature is useless to this discussion. Of course they believe and shudder in the presents of God. They have no chance to repent and will spent eternity as they are now.
Are you tring to use this as a way to bolster your point that we should live in fear of our salvation. Please tell me that is not your point.
 
#1,588
#1,588
ridethelightening said:
I'm drawing a fine line in the sand right here. Nobody on this Earth knows who is going to Heaven. Jesus will decide our fate
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Wow.....seriously.......the Bible is very clear who will go to heaven......this is a very disturbing statement that has been taught you by very bad theology

Like I said before....this is exactly the teaching that is the reason that I left the church of Christ
 
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#1,589
#1,589
OrangeEmpire said:
I find it absolutely horrifying that one would believe that we have any thing do with salvation. Our actions will never ever be able to supply the sacrifice needed to cover our sins.

This is the beautiful story of grace.

Legalism = I have control of my salvation....... frightening!
Click to expand...

So you are saying there is nothing we must do to obtain salvation? Including praying, hearing, reading, studying?
 
#1,590
#1,590
T-TownVol said:
What is the one element that is mentioned EVERY time the Bible speaks of salvation?...........FAITH
Baptist is an OUTWARD sign that we are a follower of Christ and is an essential part of being a follower. NOT the moment of salvation. That is why it is referred to as "believers baptist".
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You left out the word "only". There are ZERO examples of anyone being saved based on faith only after the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. In fact, the only time the combination of those two words, "faith only", appear in the Bible is here:

James 2:24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Technically there was no mention of faith in Acts 2:38. Peter said repent and be baptized. That doesn't mean faith isn't required, but there are moments where faith isn't specifically mentioned.
 
#1,591
#1,591
ridethelightening said:
I'm not going away from it. They are in Heaven because they followed the laws as they were commanded. Christ's death formed a new covenant with man, and the laws are laid out for us. Believing in Jesus is awesome, believing in what he taught, and doing as he commanded us to do, gets me to Heaven.

"For even the demons believe and shudder"
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:crazy:
 
#1,592
#1,592
salutethehill said:
So you are saying there is nothing we must do to obtain salvation? Including praying, hearing, reading, studying?
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Not in the slightest...... I believe Jesus saves and you believe works saves.

The steps for salvation are quite simple...

Realization you are sinner.......

And......

Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved

This is always a fun one for your crowd....

In whatever way we understand do, we cannot be consistent with the Bible if we take it to mean more than the passive reception of something that is true. That is the nature of faith or believing.


In John 6, the Jews asked Jesus, "What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?" (v 28). In other words, they wanted to know what works God required them to do for eternal life.

But Jesus' answer startled them: "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent" (v 29). They could not be saved by doing works. God's only requirement was belief in His Son.

Furthermore, if we define believe as surrender, commit, or obey, we revert back to a salvation by works. It is impossible that faith could in any way be a work of merit or something done to earn God's favor: "Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness" (Rom 4:4-5).
Paul was simply telling the jailer to accept something as true, to trust in the truth about the Lord Jesus Christ.

:hi:
 
#1,593
#1,593
salutethehill said:
You left out the word "only". There are ZERO examples of anyone being saved based on faith only after the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. In fact, the only time the combination of those two words, "faith only", appear in the Bible is here:

James 2:24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Technically there was no mention of faith in Acts 2:38. Peter said repent and be baptized. That doesn't mean faith isn't required, but there are moments where faith isn't specifically mentioned.
Click to expand...


You are splitting hairs again.
To repent, one must acknowledge that one is a sinner and that Christ came and died for those sins. Before baptism, are you not asked if you believe that Christ is the son of God and that you believe in him?
 
#1,594
#1,594
salutethehill said:
You left out the word "only". There are ZERO examples of anyone being saved based on faith only after the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. In fact, the only time the combination of those two words, "faith only", appear in the Bible is here:

James 2:24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Technically there was no mention of faith in Acts 2:38. Peter said repent and be baptized. That doesn't mean faith isn't required, but there are moments where faith isn't specifically mentioned.
Click to expand...

You need to be careful with the Book of James.

Some think that this epistle was written in response to an overzealous interpretation of Paul’s teaching regarding faith. This extreme view, called antinomianism, held that through faith in Christ one is completely free from all Old Testament law, all legalism, all secular law, and all the morality of a society. The book of James is directed to Jewish Christians scattered among all the nations James 1:1. Martin Luther, who detested this letter and called it “the epistle of straw,” failed to recognize that James’s teaching on works complemented not contradicted Paul’s teaching on faith. While Pauline teachings concentrate on our justification with God, James’ teachings concentrate on the works that exemplify that justification. James was writing to Jews to encourage them to continue growing in this new Christian faith. James emphasizes that good actions will naturally flow from those who are filled with the Spirit and questions whether someone may or may not have a saving faith if the fruits of the spirit cannot be seen, much as Paul describes in Galations 5:22-23.

The primary focus of James is this. The epistle also puts to rest the idea that one can become a Christian and yet continue living in sin, exhibiting no fruit of righteousness. Such a “faith,” James declares, is shared by the demons who “believe and tremble” James 2:19. Yet such a “faith” cannot save because it is not verified by the works that always accompany true saving faith Ephesians 2:10. Good works are not the cause of salvation, but they are the result of it.
 
#1,595
#1,595
T-TownVol said:
and our requirements for salvation STOP right there.
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2 Peter 2 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.

How bad will it be for those who don't believe in Christ? Because the Bible is very clear that it will be EVEN WORSE for those who do, and turn away from Him. Our requirements for salvation do not stop. I know it's not popular, and sometimes it's not what we want to do, but we must be faithful unto death.
 
#1,596
#1,596
T-TownVol said:
not the way that you are interpreting them
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Jesus: "if you love Me, you will keep my commandments

Jesus: "he who has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves Me

1 John: " and by this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments"

Jesus: "why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only one who is good but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments"

They ask, "Which ones?"

Jesus: "You shall not commit murder, you shall not commit adultry, you shall not steal, you shall not bear false witness, honor your father and mother, you shall love your neighbor as yourself"

Jesus: "this is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you"

Jesus: "you shall love your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, this is the great and foremost commandment. The second is like it, you shall love your neighbor as yourself. On those two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets"

Jesus: "So therefore, any one of you who does not renounce all that he has cannot be my disciple."

Jesus: "live such a godly life that people, seeing you do good deeds, will have respect for your Father which is in heaven"

Jesus: "truly, truly I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God"

Paul: "for by one Spirit, are we all baptized into one body"

John: "I have baptized you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."

Paul: "we were baptized into Christ"

Paul: "for as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ"

How much farther do I need to go? Could be here awhile
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#1,598
#1,598
What didn't I answer in post 1592.........?????????

Not in the slightest...... I believe Jesus saves and you believe works saves.

The steps for salvation are quite simple...

Realization you are sinner.......

And......

Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved
Click to expand...
 
#1,600
#1,600
OrangeEmpire said:
Not in the slightest...... I believe Jesus saves and you believe works saves.

The steps for salvation are quite simple...

Realization you are sinner.......

And......

Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved

This is always a fun one for your crowd....

In whatever way we understand do, we cannot be consistent with the Bible if we take it to mean more than the passive reception of something that is true. That is the nature of faith or believing.


In John 6, the Jews asked Jesus, "What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?" (v 28). In other words, they wanted to know what works God required them to do for eternal life.

But Jesus' answer startled them: "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent" (v 29). They could not be saved by doing works. God's only requirement was belief in His Son.

Furthermore, if we define believe as surrender, commit, or obey, we revert back to a salvation by works. It is impossible that faith could in any way be a work of merit or something done to earn God's favor: "Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness" (Rom 4:4-5).
Paul was simply telling the jailer to accept something as true, to trust in the truth about the Lord Jesus Christ.

:hi:
Click to expand...

So you would agree that we must hear the word to be saved, correct? At the moment we are saved, are we forgiven of our sins, or are we still in our sins?
 
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