Religious debate (split from main board)

#2,176
#2,176
OrangeEmpire said:
Sounds like the conversation is every where.

If you are talking about understanding what the bible is saying then that can be at any point christian or non christian.

If you are talking about after salvation then a christian believes the holy spirit guides you in your search for truth in the bible.

Understanding the bible is a life long process and the vast majority we will never understand.

The entire point of opening the bible and studying it is using it as a guidebook on how to live your life.
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It's this segment of the conversation I was referring to:

IP said: So what you are saying is because I don't believe, I can't properly comprehend the words of the Bible?
T-Town said: That is exactly what the Bible says....not me.
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I could have missed it, but I took it that T-Town was referring to understanding the words of the bible in general.
 
#2,177
#2,177
bam15 said:
If that is so, wouldn't it be God's will whether you die or not? I don't think it is God's will to take the life of another man.

I am always reminded by the Rev. MLK Jr's prophetic words in Memphis the day before he died:
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Good question.

So your saying the non believer is going against God's will?:)

Seriously tho. Im not sure your against God's will by defending yourself when in a situation like that.
 
#2,178
#2,178
I hate to speak for T-town, but we generally agree on most things, he is referring to the salvation experience and receiving the holy spirit brings a different knowledge of the bible.
 
#2,180
#2,180
g8terh8ter_eric said:
You act like we are dumb sheep here bam. Of course we want to go to heaven, but God gave us a brain and allows us to defend ourselves. As long as we don't murder someone in cold blood, it's fine to defend yourself as a Christian. Also, if it's God's Will that you are going to die, you will, but if it's his Will that you defend yourself, he will make sure you understand to do so.
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Must be my Catholic sympathies..

I don't like this argument.

God gave us a brain, and that brain developed free will hence firearms and materialism.

This is still missing the point, if you want to go to heaven, why the hell would you want to stay here? Do you doubt your faith? Do you doubt the existence of a supreme being? And no I'm not advocating suicide.
 
#2,182
#2,182
BeecherVol said:
Good question.

So your saying the non believer is going against God's will?:)

Seriously tho. Im not sure your against God's will by defending yourself when in a situation like that.
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Going against God's will, but the individual who is presumably 'lost' will have an opportunity to redeem their self. I wouldn't believe God would forgive someone who knowingly understands Christian principles and commits acts to that degree. Moreover, the non-believer is essentially going against God's will - with free will.

It's human nature, but it's also human nature to do many things which the Bible is against. I don't think killing another individual would solve anything, and if one were confident in their faith, why would these acts of self-defense be necessary?
 
#2,183
#2,183
bam15 said:
If that is so, wouldn't it be God's will whether you die or not? I don't think it is God's will to take the life of another man.

I am always reminded by the Rev. MLK Jr's prophetic words in Memphis the day before he died:
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The MLK quote is interesting.

Do you think he would have had the same quote before his journey, as he put it? It sounds like he was ready after he had been to the top of the mountain.

That would open another set of questions. One being, at what point have you run your race?

Another would be. When can you decide to let yourself die?
 
#2,185
#2,185
I am still confused as to how one is supposed to believe the word of God to then be able to understand the word of God...

Especially in the case of some some of us skeptics who originally believed the word of God, and then fell away as we read the word of God in the context of other sorts of knowledge.
 
#2,187
#2,187
bam15 said:
Going against God's will, but the individual who is presumably 'lost' will have an opportunity to redeem their self. I wouldn't believe God would forgive someone who knowingly understands Christian principles and commits acts to that degree. Moreover, the non-believer is essentially going against God's will - with free will.

It's human nature, but it's also human nature to do many things which the Bible is against. I don't think killing another individual would solve anything, and if one were confident in their faith, why would these acts of self-defense be necessary?
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Are we discussing self defense, or murder?
 
#2,188
#2,188
TennTradition said:
It's this segment of the conversation I was referring to:



I could have missed it, but I took it that T-Town was referring to understanding the words of the bible in general.
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as I have said many times before, writing is not my best suit and I appologize for that, I should have listened to my english teacher in HS instaed of dating her......I am in no way just referring to the meaning of words in general
The Holy Spirit speaks to the beleiver and helps to guide the understanding of the spiritual imtent of the passages.
This guidance is different for all believers as to their walk in the faith and level of knowledge of the scriptures and no two peole will interpret the words the same way every time.
 
#2,189
#2,189
IPorange said:
I am still confused as to how one is supposed to believe the word of God to then be able to understand the word of God...

Especially in the case of some some of us skeptics who originally believed the word of God, and then fell away as we read the word of God in the context of other sorts of knowledge.
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From what I read you are confusing two seperate ideas.

A christian or non christian can read and understand the bible.

At the point of salvation when you belief in Christ, not the bible, then you are given the holy spirit.
 
#2,190
#2,190
TennTradition said:
It's this segment of the conversation I was referring to:



I could have missed it, but I took it that T-Town was referring to understanding the words of the bible in general.
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The Bible tells us that after salvation, scripture will be "sptritually discerned". Thus the difference when people that don't believe read and when a born again Christian reads. For instance, before I accepted Christ, I could read John 3:16, For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son, that who so ever believed in Him would not perish but have ever lasting life. At this point it only meant what the words said, but after wards I understood it.
 
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#2,191
#2,191
BeecherVol said:
The MLK quote is interesting.

Do you think he would have had the same quote before his journey, as he put it? It sounds like he was ready after he had been to the top of the mountain.

That would open another set of questions. One being, at what point have you run your race?

Another would be. When can you decide to let yourself die?
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No.

But I also do not believe he would have committed acts of self-defense. He let God direct him, and I do not believe God would be one who condones acts of violence. Hence God lets you live to spread the gospel, not do acts which I do not believe are satisfactory - violence, self-defense.

Do you let yourself die? Or does God decide when you die? Presumably I'm going off the inference that God isn't factoring in non-Christians and those who decide a firearm and worldly affairs are more important than Heaven.
 
#2,192
#2,192
IPorange said:
I am still confused as to how one is supposed to believe the word of God to then be able to understand the word of God...
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I've asked this question to a few of my Christian friends...I usually just get the "You just have to believe in Him to understand"
 
#2,193
#2,193
bam15 said:
No.

But I also do not believe he would have committed acts of self-defense. He let God direct him, and I do not believe God would be one who condones acts of violence. Hence God lets you live to spread the gospel, not do acts which I do not believe are satisfactory - violence, self-defense.

Do you let yourself die? Or does God decide when you die? Presumably I'm going off the inference that God isn't factoring in non-Christians and those who decide a firearm and worldly affairs are more important than Heaven.
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This is the correct answer....at least this is what my parents have told me over and over again through the years.
 
#2,194
#2,194
bam15 said:
No.

But I also do not believe he would have committed acts of self-defense. He let God direct him, and I do not believe God would be one who condones acts of violence. Hence God lets you live to spread the gospel, not do acts which I do not believe are satisfactory - violence, self-defense.

Do you let yourself die? Or does God decide when you die? Presumably I'm going off the inference that God isn't factoring in non-Christians and those who decide a firearm and worldly affairs are more important than Heaven.
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Ok, you will have to explain the whole guns are evil thing.

Personal experience?
 
#2,195
#2,195
bam15 said:
I don't buy this OE.

I think people want to stay because they're scared of what awaits them when they die.
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That would be the wrong answer for me.
I want to stay alive to watch my kids grow up and help them along their path.
I also would love for the world to end tonight, that way he are all in heaven together and my kids get to meet my mom.
 
#2,197
#2,197
nickknx865 said:
I've asked this question to a few of my Christian friends...I usually just get the "You just have to believe in Him to understand"
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The thing that is mind-boggling to me is this:

Your Presbyterian friend will tell you what he thinks

Your Baptist friend will tell you what he thinks

Your Catholic friend will tell you what he thinks

etc.

Read the KJV

No! That's not correct, read the NIV! No, RSV! No, ESV!

Technically who is correct?
 
#2,198
#2,198
OrangeEmpire said:
From what I read you are confusing two seperate ideas.

A christian or non christian can read and understand the bible.

At the point of salvation when you belief in Christ, not the bible, then you are given the holy spirit.
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I'm not confusing anything at all. I am responding to what I am being told right here in this thread.

IPorange said:
So what you are saying is because I don't believe, I can't properly comprehend the words of the Bible?
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T-TownVol said:
That is exactly what the Bible says....not me. That whole thing about the Holy Spirit and all.
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So if this is wrong, take it up with him.
 
#2,199
#2,199
T-TownVol said:
That would be the wrong answer for me.
I want to stay alive to watch my kids grow up and help them along their path.
I also would love for the world to end tonight, that way he are all in heaven together and my kids get to meet my mom.
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Presumably, won't they also be in Heaven if they are Christians?

Is materialism more important than eternal security?

I know it's human nature.
 
#2,200
#2,200
IPorange said:
I am still confused as to how one is supposed to believe the word of God to then be able to understand the word of God...

Especially in the case of some some of us skeptics who originally believed the word of God, and then fell away as we read the word of God in the context of other sorts of knowledge.
Click to expand...

None of us will ever fully understand the meaning of God's words in the Bible. That is what is so great about the journey.
 
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