Religious debate (split from main board)

#2,301
#2,301
g8terh8ter_eric said:
But if that seed is not planted in the ground, it doesn't ever sprout upwards. If people aren't willing to accept it as more than just a history book, then they aren't going to be able to accept it as a spiritual guide book either. And the latter is MUCH more important.
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Yes, there are certainly those who it will never do any good to read the bible. There are others that will never believe (in the facts, not the message), yet it will do good. There are others for which it will plant the seed, as OE says. There is no reason to want the bible left un-read, save for those who believe, IMO.
 
#2,303
#2,303
TennTradition said:
Yes, there are certainly those who it will never do any good to read the bible. There are others that will never believe (in the facts, not the message), yet it will do good. There are others for which it will plant the seed, as OE says. There is no reason to want the bible left un-read, save for those who believe, IMO.
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If you plant a seed, and do nothing to it, it dies. Cultivation of a Christian is hard work.
 
#2,304
#2,304
T-TownVol said:
as am I with you sir.....no comment on the "back row Baptists"?
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Sorry, but I preach from the back of the church every Sunday, as far back as I can get. Your really sitting at the front! I have did a few sermons from the front though, don't want anyone totally comfortable you know.
 
#2,305
#2,305
TennTradition said:
Yes, there are certainly those who it will never do any good to read the bible. There are others that will never believe (in the facts, not the message), yet it will do good. There are others for which it will plant the seed, as OE says. There is no reason to want the bible left un-read, save for those who believe, IMO.
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God changes the heart and mind.....we do not
Excellent post TT.
 
#2,307
#2,307
Oldvol75 said:
Sorry, but I preach from the back of the church every Sunday, as far back as I can get. Your really sitting at the front! I have did a few sermons from the front though, don't want anyone totally comfortable you know.
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Have you ever had one of your members come to you and complain that someone sat in THEIR seat on Sunday morning?
 
#2,308
#2,308
TennTradition said:
That still doesn't explain why you would want non-believers to stay away from the bible. Not believing doesn't mean lacking the capacity to believe.
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So wait, if you believe everything in it, doesn't that make you 1 step short of a Christian?? If you believe in the God Head, the virgin birth, the resurrection, and other things Christian's believe, that means that all you have to do is ask Jesus into your heart. So, are you talking about on the fence people or people who argue against God?? Because I'm talking about those who argue against God, yet read the Bible. That's what I am talking about makes no sense.
 
#2,312
#2,312
g8terh8ter_eric said:
So wait, if you believe everything in it, doesn't that make you 1 step short of a Christian?? If you believe in the God Head, the virgin birth, the resurrection, and other things Christian's believe, that means that all you have to do is ask Jesus into your heart. So, are you talking about on the fence people or people who argue against God?? Because I'm talking about those who argue against God, yet read the Bible. That's what I am talking about makes no sense.
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I'm talking about everyone, really. I'm talking about people who are only going to find things they disagree with. I'm talking about people who don't believe a lot of things, but find solid messages that they like and incorporate into the way they want to live their lives. I'm talking about people who believe everything could be true, but can't make themselves take the next step because they don't feel any different or read anything differently once they do. I don't see the value in leaving teachings unread, even if they aren't learned (the hope there, I would think, is that they will be remembered...you never know when an a-ha moment might come, right?).
 
#2,313
#2,313
TennTradition said:
I'm talking about everyone, really. I'm talking about people who are only going to find things they disagree with. I'm talking about people who don't believe a lot of things, but find solid messages that they like and incorporate into the way they want to live their lives. I'm talking about people who believe everything could be true, but can't make themselves take the next step because they don't feel any different or read anything differently once they do. I don't see the value in leaving teachings unread, even if they aren't learned (the hope there, I would think, is that they will be remembered...you never know when an a-ha moment might come, right?).
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It's just not right to equate the Bible to a book of morals, because that's not what it is at all.
 
#2,314
#2,314
When a non-believer looks at the Bible, I have found in my experience thats its more in line to disprove the Bible. There are exceptions, for example when someone is at the end of their rope, so to speak. But I also feel that during this time,(end of their rope), that it is the Holy Spirit that is leading them to God's word. For His purpose.

But for a non-believer (someone that is reading the Bible just for the sake of reading it) to claim understanding of the word and what it truly means, is not possible. The Holy Spirit is required for understanding.

Yes a Christian is to plant a seed, but as has been said here, there is preperation that is involved before that seed takes hold. Prayer being the main one followed by effective witnessing. But with that said, we must also allow God to cause the seed to grow. As Paul said, paraphrase here, I have planted, Apolos watered, but God gives the increase.

I pray for those on here every night that a seed may be planted.
 
#2,315
#2,315
Oldvol75 said:
When a non-believer looks at the Bible, I have found in my experience thats its more in line to disprove the Bible. There are exceptions, for example when someone is at the end of their rope, so to speak. But I also feel that during this time,(end of their rope), that it is the Holy Spirit that is leading them to God's word. For His purpose.

But for a non-believer (someone that is reading the Bible just for the sake of reading it) to claim understanding of the word and what it truly means, is not possible. The Holy Spirit is required for understanding.

Yes a Christian is to plant a seed, but as has been said here, there is preperation that is involved before that seed takes hold. Prayer being the main one followed by effective witnessing. But with that said, we must also allow God to cause the seed to grow. As Paul said, paraphrase here, I have planted, Apolos watered, but God gives the increase.

I pray for those on here every night that a seed may be planted.
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As do I. Well said.
 
#2,316
#2,316
g8terh8ter_eric said:
It's just not right to equate the Bible to a book of morals, because that's not what it is at all.
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I think you are missing his point. If they do not read, there is no way they MIGHT believe someday. We should want everyone to read the Bible. God opens the heart, we supply the word for the non beliver to hear/read.
 
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#2,318
#2,318
T-TownVol said:
I think you are missing his point. If they do not read, there is no way they MIGHT believe someday. We should want everyone to read the Bible. God opens the heart, we supply the word for the non beliver to hear/read.
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But we present it as spiritual, not just some book with a bunch of stories. If a non-believer reads something they do not understand spiritually, they will become more frustrated with it than anything.
 
#2,319
#2,319
g8terh8ter_eric said:
But we present it as spiritual, not just some book with a bunch of stories. If a non-believer reads something they do not understand spiritually, they will become more frustrated with it than anything.
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It is up to them to decide if they want to believe the word or not. Saying that they should not even read it if they are not going to beleive it, is not up to us. I agree about letting them know it is spiritual to us.

Frustration leads to questions. Questions lead to seeking the answers. Hopefully a Christian is around when they start asking those questions.
 
#2,320
#2,320
g8terh8ter_eric said:
But we present it as spiritual, not just some book with a bunch of stories. If a non-believer reads something they do not understand spiritually, they will become more frustrated with it than anything.
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Just a thought experiment...let's go this route...

If Jim is a non-believer and God didn't want him to be able to read the bible, then why not make it only visible to those who believe? Why would He make it visible to Jim as a non-believer if that is only going to make Jim frustrated and lead Jim further away from Him? It surely isn't an evil temptation, because they are His words.
 
#2,321
#2,321
In addition to, I did not buy or read my first Bible,(other than just looking at the BIG Family Bible in White my mom had on the table in the "living room" that no one was allowed in) until after I started going to church. I can only assume that I alone was not the only one that experienced this.
 
#2,322
#2,322
T-TownVol said:
It is up to them to decide if they want to believe the word or not. Saying that they should not even read it if they are not going to beleive it, is not up to us. I agree about letting them know it is spiritual to us.

Frustration leads to questions. Questions lead to seeking the answers. Hopefully a Christian is around when they start asking those questions.
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Your describing a searching individual though, I'm referring to those who are just trying to gain knowledge, which isn't what the Bible was written for. It's much more than that. I believe it's God's Word, and you don't believe that's what it is, then why take the time to understand it, if it means nothing to you afterward?? The Bible is spiritual, and if you aren't reading it for spiritual purposes, it doesn't no good.
 
#2,323
#2,323
TennTradition said:
Just a thought experiment...let's go this route...

If Jim is a non-believer and God didn't want him to be able to read the bible, then why not make it only visible to those who believe? Why would He make it visible to Jim as a non-believer if that is only going to make Jim frustrated and lead Jim further away from Him? It surely isn't an evil temptation, because they are His words.
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Ok, here's a question for you....

If you are seeking an answer to a question, you pick up a book that can give you an answer to your question right?? BUT, if you aren't searching for an answer, would you pick up that same book and read it the same way as you did if you were searching?? People are getting the searching individual mixed up with the person who will read it and still tell Christian's they are full of it and their beliefs are in vain. That's my whole point.
 
#2,324
#2,324
Lets clarify this part of the thread from tonight.

1. What reasons do people read the Bible?
Christian= To be inspired by the Holy Word of God.

Non-christian= (a)To disprove,(b) were drawn to,

I don't believe that a non-christian would read the Bible for casual reading.
 
#2,325
#2,325
Oldvol75 said:
Lets clarify this part of the thread from tonight.

1. What reasons do people read the Bible?
Christian= To be inspired by the Holy Word of God.

Non-christian= (a)To disprove,(b) were drawn to,

I don't believe that a non-christian would read the Bible for casual reading.
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It doesn't really matter what you believe. Some do.
 
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