Religious Survey

[GVF]

Rome did not accept Catholicism until Constantine. Peter was the Bishop of Rome and, yes, he was martyred by the Roman gov't. Your statement concerning Rome's acceptance shows exactly how ignorant you are of the historical context in which the Christianity began.

I'm not ignorant of how Christianity began. I'm very familiar with the inspired word of God. Maybe ignorance catholocism, as I've had no desire for any knowledge of it other than higher levels. I don't practice it or take serious interest in it or others. Even though you express your beliefs in a militant demeanor, I do enjoy your readings as they are, for the mere fact that any thing relgious we won't agree much. To quote Lexvol, I'll stay with mine. I'm familiar with general teachings of popular religions. I forgot that you were the only intelligent scholar in here. I'll try to be more humble and less ignorant.

 

[Jasongivm6]

On a serious note, why would anyone who believes in God, or any other way to get to heaven, .......why would they believe in only "parts" of his Word?


If you're gonna go for it, why not go for it all?

 

[therealUT]

On a serious note, why would anyone who believes in God, or any other way to get to heaven, .......why would they believe in only "parts" of his Word?
If you're gonna go for it, why not go for it all?

It is not a matter of believing in truth. It is a matter in taking it at the surface or believing there lies a deeper meaning. Many parts of the Bible are allegorical, other parts are factually incorrect. The Bible was written by man, and although inspired by God, it was not as though God dictated the Bible to man (i.e. the Koran.) Therefore, since the only perfect being is God, to accept that any work of man is perfect is ridiculous.

 

[GVF]

On a serious note, why would anyone who believes in God, or any other way to get to heaven, .......why would they believe in only "parts" of his Word?
If you're gonna go for it, why not go for it all?

That's what i'm trying to understand. How do we carve up and use only what is useful to #1's desired lifestyle with a little sugar on the halo.

 

[GVF]

It is not a matter of believing in truth. It is a matter in taking it at the surface or believing there lies a deeper meaning. Many parts of the Bible are allegorical, other parts are factually incorrect. The Bible was written by man, and although inspired by God, it was not as though God dictated the Bible to man (i.e. the Koran.) Therefore, since the only perfect being is God, to accept that any work of man is perfect is ridiculous.

The writers of the new testament were witnesses to the life and work of Christ on earth, travelled with him, lived with him. taught with him. And even Clement did alot of work investigating and approving their authorships. An unnamed disciple is mentioned a few times as the one Jesus loved. He is the one who leaned on him at the feast and asked who would betray him. One take is that this disciple recorded a lot of these things as a witness, and would have been used in the others' writings for accuracy. For me, it holds more than individuals centuries or millenia later claiming to be prophets and 'divinely' giving new religious creeds to those who liked it. These founders have no verifiable links and witness to Christ as validation of their work.

 

[GVF]

It is not a matter of believing in truth. It is a matter in taking it at the surface or believing there lies a deeper meaning. Many parts of the Bible are allegorical, other parts are factually incorrect. The Bible was written by man, and although inspired by God, it was not as though God dictated the Bible to man (i.e. the Koran.) Therefore, since the only perfect being is God, to accept that any work of man is perfect is ridiculous.

It's a matter of how you interpret your faith. You have a broad acceptance of everything, a critical and discrediting eye for all things protestant or christian. By that I mean you 'appear' water everything down to the same undiscernable level. I tend to put more faith in the apostles and their writings as factual because they did bear witness to Christ, as none of the authors of these other faiths could do. I don't question scripture the same way you do.

 

[therealUT]

The writers of the new testament were witnesses to the life and work of Christ on earth, travelled with him, lived with him. taught with him. And even Clement did alot of work investigating and approving their authorships. An unnamed disciple is mentioned a few times as the one Jesus loved. He is the one who leaned on him at the feast and asked who would betray him. One take is that this disciple recorded a lot of these things as a witness, and would have been used in the others' writings for accuracy. For me, it holds more than individuals centuries or millenia later claiming to be prophets and 'divinely' giving new religious creeds to those who liked it. These founders have no verifiable links and witness to Christ as validation of their work.

Yet, you read from a Bible that was revised in the 15th Centruy to disallow seven books in the OT...

 

[therealUT]

It's a matter of how you interpret your faith. You have a broad acceptance of everything, a critical and discrediting eye for all things protestant or christian. By that I mean you 'appear' water everything down to the same undiscernable level. I tend to put more faith in the apostles and their writings as factual because they did bear witness to Christ, as none of the authors of these other faiths could do. I don't question scripture the same way you do.

I try question scripture to find the deeper meaning. Our difference is this: you believe in a very simple and uncomplicated God, I believe that God is very deep and sophisticated.

 

[vader]

On a serious note, why would anyone who believes in God, or any other way to get to heaven, .......why would they believe in only "parts" of his Word?
If you're gonna go for it, why not go for it all?

How often do you do this?

Leviticus 1 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society

Leviticus 1
The Burnt Offering
1 The LORD called to Moses and spoke to him from the Tent of Meeting. He said, 2 "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'When any of you brings an offering to the LORD, bring as your offering an animal from either the herd or the flock.
3 " 'If the offering is a burnt offering from the herd, he is to offer a male without defect. He must present it at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting so that it [a] will be acceptable to the LORD. 4 He is to lay his hand on the head of the burnt offering, and it will be accepted on his behalf to make atonement for him. 5 He is to slaughter the young bull before the LORD, and then Aaron's sons the priests shall bring the blood and sprinkle it against the altar on all sides at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting. 6 He is to skin the burnt offering and cut it into pieces. 7 The sons of Aaron the priest are to put fire on the altar and arrange wood on the fire. 8 Then Aaron's sons the priests shall arrange the pieces, including the head and the fat, on the burning wood that is on the altar. 9 He is to wash the inner parts and the legs with water, and the priest is to burn all of it on the altar. It is a burnt offering, an offering made by fire, an aroma pleasing to the LORD.

10 " 'If the offering is a burnt offering from the flock, from either the sheep or the goats, he is to offer a male without defect. 11 He is to slaughter it at the north side of the altar before the LORD, and Aaron's sons the priests shall sprinkle its blood against the altar on all sides. 12 He is to cut it into pieces, and the priest shall arrange them, including the head and the fat, on the burning wood that is on the altar. 13 He is to wash the inner parts and the legs with water, and the priest is to bring all of it and burn it on the altar. It is a burnt offering, an offering made by fire, an aroma pleasing to the LORD.

14 " 'If the offering to the LORD is a burnt offering of birds, he is to offer a dove or a young pigeon. 15 The priest shall bring it to the altar, wring off the head and burn it on the altar; its blood shall be drained out on the side of the altar. 16 He is to remove the crop with its contents and throw it to the east side of the altar, where the ashes are. 17 He shall tear it open by the wings, not severing it completely, and then the priest shall burn it on the wood that is on the fire on the altar. It is a burnt offering, an offering made by fire, an aroma pleasing to the LORD.

 

[vader]

But the New Testament wiped all that out, right?

How about Matthew, then.

Matthew Ch 5:

Adultery
27"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.'[e] 28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.
Divorce
31"It has been said, 'Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.'[f] 32But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.
Oaths
33"Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not break your oath, but keep the oaths you have made to the Lord.' 34But I tell you, Do not swear at all: either by heaven, for it is God's throne; 35or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. 36And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. 37Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.
An Eye for an Eye
38"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'[g] 39But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

Matthew, Ch 6

Fasting
16"When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show men they are fasting. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 17But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face, 18so that it will not be obvious to men that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

 

[vader]

1st Timothy, Ch 2 is a good one:

9I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.

11A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15But women[a] will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

 

[Jasongivm6]

1st Timothy, Ch 2 is a good one:

Somewhere, it also says that women should wear a vail over their heads at every meal.

 

[therealUT]

Somewhere, it also says that women should wear a vail over her head at every meal.

It says many things, that apparently, the literalists in all their zeal, decide they can toss out, while maintaing that the Bible is completely perfect and none of it can be discarded. This is the reason it is so hard to engage in logical argument with these people. They are completely irrational.

 

[Lexvol]

Somewhere, it also says that women should wear a vail over their heads at every meal.

That was obviously written before the advent of beer goggles.

 

[Jasongivm6]

That was obviously written before the advent of beer goggles.

:wacko:


You know they had wine goggles, don't you?

 

[MyBloodRunnethOrange]

The writers of the new testament were witnesses to the life and work of Christ on earth, travelled with him, lived with him. taught with him.

To my knowledge, there is no evidence that Saul of Tarsus ever met Jesus, yet he wrote over half the books of the NT.

 

[MyBloodRunnethOrange]

True, but the length or type of punishment wasn't the point.

But it is very much the point with me. I just don't see how God can throw billions of people into a torture pit and inflict suffering that will never end, and the church says it is an act of love.

 

[MyBloodRunnethOrange]

My offering to this discussion isn't backed by a whole page of references....and I don't know the scripture as well as most of you. I would say the best bet a man could do is follow the example set by Christ when he was flesh, and love God the Father with all your heart. A little faith is placed in all mens hearts so that they know right from wrong. The 10 commandments...love your neighbor as you love yourself, and be merciful to others when they are mean to you. In this day and time many are cruel and selfish, its easy to rant and moan about how others treat you badly...but give kindness for selfishness.....give mercy for rudenss....but mostly is the private personal realationship you have with Jesus. Talk to him when no ones is around, tell him your fears as if he sat next to you at the red light in your SUV. I think its this relationship with the Son that'll save you from everlasting flames and torment, and transports you to a field of wildflowers and soft breezes....and a still small voice that talks to your spirit, and says I love you little one...come and be safe and secure in the house of the Father. I love all ya'all.

I'm all for following the teachings of Jesus Christ. Jesus taught love and tolerance for everyone. As a matter of fact, the only people Jesus harshly rebuked were the religious leaders of the day. The ones who taught that you had to follow their edicts to the letter, and generally acted alot like the religious leaders of today.

The church, and more specifically, the leaders of the church today, is where I have my problem.

 

[GVF]

I'm all for following the teachings of Jesus Christ. Jesus taught love and tolerance for everyone. As a matter of fact, the only people Jesus harshly rebuked were the religious leaders of the day. The ones who taught that you had to follow their edicts to the letter, and generally acted alot like the religious leaders of today.

The church, and more specifically, the leaders of the church today, is where I have my problem.

Jesus did rebuke the legalism. And that is what virtually all religions get into and are consumed by. None are immune to the viper pits of legalism. That's one reason I stick to the CoC. Although we have a lot of exchange and consistency in practice, each congregation keeps its own. It's hard enough to keep issues handled properly in your own body. Much less the entire brotherhood.

 

[GVF]

But it is very much the point with me. I just don't see how God can throw billions of people into a torture pit and inflict suffering that will never end, and the church says it is an act of love.

He flooded the earth and wiped out the wickedness. He detroyed cities for it. He has shown countless time that he will destroy those in darkness and not in the light. Sounds harsh. Hard to explain, understand, accept. But, why would we be any different.

 

[GVF]

To my knowledge, there is no evidence that Saul of Tarsus ever met Jesus, yet he wrote over half the books of the NT.

He did have the incident with Christ on the way to Damascus, and was confirmed by Chrsit to convert and begin preaching instead of killing. And he was accpeted and and confirmed by Peter. I'm going to read up on that one.

 

[GVF]

It says many things, that apparently, the literalists in all their zeal, decide they can toss out, while maintaing that the Bible is completely perfect and none of it can be discarded. This is the reason it is so hard to engage in logical argument with these people. They are completely irrational.

As are you. You are bent crooked far worse than I. You are borderline fanatical in a discussion.

 

[GVF]

I try question scripture to find the deeper meaning. Our difference is this: you believe in a very simple and uncomplicated God, I believe that God is very deep and sophisticated.

But, God is simple and uncomplicated. He is not difficult to know. He is not difficult to understand. If reading the scriptures confuses us or offends us, then we have not truly opened our heart to receive God that we may understand.

 

[GVF]

As are you. You are bent crooked far worse than I. You are borderline fanatical in a discussion.

And, you always start off your intelligent and rational arguments by calling people religious terrorists. You think you're gonna get decent conversation in return. And if we don't agree with you, you just keep slinging stones, and you never really provide a whole lot of evidence for why you shoot us down. I'm completely open to logical conversation. As long as your open to my beliefs as well. Which you haven't been.

 

[therealUT]

But, God is simple and uncomplicated. He is not difficult to know. He is not difficult to understand. If reading the scriptures confuses us or offends us, then we have not truly opened our heart to receive God that we may understand.

God is wisdom. Wisdom is in itself sophisticated.