Religious Survey

[therealUT]

Never spoke to him. Don't know the condition of his soul when he died. Don't personally know about his salvation. I would think a person of his stature would be knowledgeable in the truth, and also be knowledgeable to act on it. I personally, don't know if he did or didn't.
Different thought...You are okay with carving all the warnings of god to the unrighteous and unbeleiving out of the scripture and only handing out the feel good stuff? Have kids? You give them a rule. You warn them. They break it. You give them the punishement they were warned of. Whose the ogre? Why would God be any different to his children. If he gives us rules, and we disobey, why is he the unjust one? Were we not the ones at fault. He just did what he said he would do if we insisted on being in the darkeness.

Well, we agree to disagree then. You believe that God is only allowing yourself and your fellow believers into heaven. I feel that God is allowing of all those people who sincerely try to live a life of service to their neighbors.

 

[therealUT]

I will answer, somewhat. I am not sure where Ghandi is, as I am only human. But I believe you are trying to convey that since he was a good man, that he is surely in heaven. I do not know if this is true or not. Do you think he is in heaven? I understand alot of your points, but I would say in relation to the eternal resting place of my soul, I would prefer to error on the side of caution. That is definitely not my reason for believing, but it makes me wonder why, people who are on the "fence", would not believe in Jesus Christ.

I most definitely believe that Ghandi is in heaven.

 

[GVF]

Well, we agree to disagree then. You believe that God is only allowing yourself and your fellow believers into heaven. I feel that God is allowing of all those people who sincerely try to live a life of service to their neighbors.

Fellow believers as in they that have become christians and live according to the scriptures and teachings of Jesus in the new testament, yes. Do they go to the same church as mine? ???

If you wish to encourage others as you stated, you must do so with the truth and love of Christ. Not a sledge hammer. None of my posts were MY opinion. I went to scripture with everything I bleieved. I can find no fault in myself or others for that.

 

[GVF]

I will answer, somewhat. I am not sure where Ghandi is, as I am only human. But I believe you are trying to convey that since he was a good man, that he is surely in heaven. I do not know if this is true or not. Do you think he is in heaven? I understand alot of your points, but I would say in relation to the eternal resting place of my soul, I would prefer to error on the side of caution. That is definitely not my reason for believing, but it makes me wonder why, people who are on the "fence", would not believe in Jesus Christ.

Good point. Alot of religion is like that, however. They cover alot of territory, most good. But, they always leave out some things that make it easier for the masses. I am accepting of some things quite readily, even if I don't practice them, but there are other things that are taught quite plainly that i don't see how we get wrong. 'touch your TV screen ,send us a check, and we'll send you a get out of jail card.' It takes more than that.

 

[GVF]

I most definitely believe that Ghandi is in heaven.

That was understood I think.

I never said he wasn't. I just refuse to pass judgement where I am not empowered, or have no personal knowledge of an individual or situation. However, as a human, he did posses many traits one would conider resident in a saved person. Very influencial.

 

[therealUT]

Fellow believers as in they that have become christians and live according to the scriptures and teachings of Jesus in the new testament, yes. Do they go to the same church as mine? ???

If you wish to encourage others as you stated, you must do so with the truth and love of Christ. Not a sledge hammer. None of my posts were MY opinion. I went to scripture with everything I bleieved. I can find no fault in myself or others for that.

I encourage others to find that which provides them with inner strength. If they turn to me and tell me they do no have inner strength, but wish to live with the grace that I have in my life, I will tell them I receive my strength through Catholicism. I will also tell them that if that is what they want, then they should study it, understand it, familiarize themselves with the Mass, and then take the year long RCIA course before converting. That they should fully understand and appreciate what they are about to undertake. However, if someone is not faultering in life and they are not questioning their faith, whatever it may be, I encourage them to continue to deepen their roots in Judaism, Islam, etc. while at the same time, gain knowledge of other religions, that they may not persecute and put down others.

It is very cowardly of you to state that none of your posts were 'your' opinion. It is your choice to believe in the Scriptures as you do. At least take ownership of that. Also, by basing all of your beliefs in Scripture, and pigeon holing yourself to the point where you can only defend your faith through Scripture, you restrict yourself to defending your faith against those who believe in the inspiration of the Bible. You would indeed have an uphill battle to fight if you were trying to defend your faith against questions asked by a Muslim, agnostic, or atheist.

 

[Jasongivm6]

Just curious. Who do you think will get into Heaven? Anyone?

 

[GVF]

I encourage others to find that which provides them with inner strength. If they turn to me and tell me they do no have inner strength, but wish to live with the grace that I have in my life, I will tell them I receive my strength through Catholicism. I will also tell them that if that is what they want, then they should study it, understand it, familiarize themselves with the Mass, and then take the year long RCIA course before converting. That they should fully understand and appreciate what they are about to undertake. However, if someone is not faultering in life and they are not questioning their faith, whatever it may be, I encourage them to continue to deepen their roots in Judaism, Islam, etc. while at the same time, gain knowledge of other religions, that they may not persecute and put down others.

It is very cowardly of you to state that none of your posts were 'your' opinion. It is your choice to believe in the Scriptures as you do. At least take ownership of that. Also, by basing all of your beliefs in Scripture, and pigeon holing yourself to the point where you can only defend your faith through Scripture, you restrict yourself to defending your faith against those who believe in the inspiration of the Bible. You would indeed have an uphill battle to fight if you were trying to defend your faith against questions asked by a Muslim, agnostic, or atheist.

I do take ownership of my beliefs and my actions. Being human, I will err, daily, and I have to answer to that which I believe, and when warranted provide the necessary change. In that respect, I guess they are my opinion, but not unbased opinions. My point is, I can go to scripture and provide where my belief comes from. I did not arbitrarily make it up. I'm not pigeon holed however. Scripture is where strength comes from and is all I need to defend my faith. That is inspiration from the bible, and I do beleive in inspiration of the bible. Not restriction. You have not heard me say anything against divine intervention, power of prayer, miracles, angels, power of the Holy Spirit. I am alive in all those gifts from God. I would see them having the uphill battle. Maybe I would or would not defend it with great eloquence, but i would defend it to the best of ability with the book that they drew there doctrine from. As for athiest, I don't believe in them. :angel: In order to profess that something does not exist, you have to acknowledge that there is something existing that you beleive does not exist. They would be more agnostic or unbelieving basically. Atheism is just fancy wording for not believing. The sun does not exist. I am an sunlight athiest. The light comes from somewhere.

 

[GVF]

Just curious. Who do you think will get into Heaven? Anyone?

Who? Me or TRUT?

I beleive there will be people of this earth in heaven. Who knows. ME and TRUT may be seated next to each other just for laughs and entertainment. Have you not been reading. Even TRUT knows I bleieve people will go to heaven. I know he bleieves it as well. We have some differing concepts inbetween.

 

[Jasongivm6]

Who? Me or TRUT?

I beleive there will be people of this earth in heaven. Who knows. ME and TRUT may be seated next to each other just for laughs and entertainment. Have you not been reading. Even TRUT knows I bleieve people will go to heaven. I know he bleieves it as well. We have some differing concepts inbetween.

I know what you believe. I was asking TRUT. I'm interested in what everyone else believes, too.

Who gets in and who doesn't?

 

[GVF]

I encourage others to find that which provides them with inner strength. If they turn to me and tell me they do no have inner strength, but wish to live with the grace that I have in my life, I will tell them I receive my strength through Catholicism. I will also tell them that if that is what they want, then they should study it, understand it, familiarize themselves with the Mass, and then take the year long RCIA course before converting. That they should fully understand and appreciate what they are about to undertake. However, if someone is not faultering in life and they are not questioning their faith, whatever it may be, I encourage them to continue to deepen their roots in Judaism, Islam, etc. while at the same time, gain knowledge of other religions, that they may not persecute and put down others.

It is very cowardly of you to state that none of your posts were 'your' opinion. It is your choice to believe in the Scriptures as you do. At least take ownership of that. Also, by basing all of your beliefs in Scripture, and pigeon holing yourself to the point where you can only defend your faith through Scripture, you restrict yourself to defending your faith against those who believe in the inspiration of the Bible. You would indeed have an uphill battle to fight if you were trying to defend your faith against questions asked by a Muslim, agnostic, or atheist.

Besides, it's not my objective to show someone they are wrong. Nor, is that what God asked of me. My commission is to spread the truth of the gospel. In that people will disagree in part or whole, etc., but it is my duty as a believer of the gospels, to defend that truthfully to the best of my ability and God will handle the rest. It's not about proving I'm right or your right or your wrong or i'm wrong. It's about taking that book and opening up to others and letting them see the truth. What they do with it is theirs.

 

[GVF]

I know what you believe. I was asking TRUT. I'm interested in what everyone else believes, too.

Who gets in and who doesn't?

Sorry, since you know my stance, I won't beat that horse. Well, I'll nudge him. I believe new testament baptized believers. However that may apply to an individual, and their belief that they are such.

 

[therealUT]

I know what you believe. I was asking TRUT. I'm interested in what everyone else believes, too.

Who gets in and who doesn't?

I believe that 99% of all people eventually make their way into Heaven. There are a few people in history who I look at, IMO, as deserving of eternal suffering: Himmler, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Milosevich, OBL, etc. I also do not feel, on a personal level, that I am deserving of Heaven. However, I believe that all will suffer the purification of purgatory, as unpure souls cannot enter into the kingdom of Heaven, yet there are absolutely no pour souls on earth. My belief is, that God is first and foremost a just God, and second an all loving and all merciful God. Therefore, IMO, every human being will have to account for their sins on Earth, yet, all humans, save for the very worst, will enjoy that eternal bliss in the presence of God after having accounted for their sins in purgatory.

 

[allvol123]

Well, we agree to disagree then. You believe that God is only allowing yourself and your fellow believers into heaven. I feel that God is allowing of all those people who sincerely try to live a life of service to their neighbors.

I believe that last sentence ties into alot of what is going on in religion today. this idea that people can create a religion that is comfortable for themselves. I am not saying that you believe this real, but I feel many people practice a religion of convenience to make themselves feel better.

 

[therealUT]

I believe that last sentence ties into alot of what is going on in religion today. this idea that people can create a religion that is comfortable for themselves. I am not saying that you believe this real, but I feel many people practice a religion of convenience to make themselves feel better.

I will not even get into my problems with religion today...

 

[MyBloodRunnethOrange]

Your right, I am Church of Christ. I am not condemning anyone else's doctrine in and of itself. that's a quick ticket to a harsh judgement for myself. Either you've been around that, or I stated it earlier. But, anyway kudos for knowing your stuff. I had the feeling you have had exposure to the church in the past based on some of the lines of questions you'd only ask a church of Christer if you knew some of our beginnings. And, you are correct to a large degree. We are human and subject to interpretation much as all doctrine's. I think you'll also acknowledge since you are knowledgeable of the CoC is that yet we do not have a written doctrine of man. We do not have a handbook. we are not centrally organized. Each congragation chooses its own elders and deacons, and is autonomous. We do practice immersion, as we believe those are the examples given, we practice communion each and every first day as we believe is given in example. Mainstream CoC is accapella. The 1st Christian Church broke off the mainstream years ago and is instrumental with maybe a few other differences but the core beleif is the same. We use the Bible and the Bible only. We make every effort to interpret correctly as it is written.

I have a good friend who is a CoC preacher, and I've had numerous discussions with him, causing me to study deeper. That's pretty much my approach with other denominations too. I like to know what a group believes and why they believe it.

Personally, I've been Southern Baptist most of my life, although at this point in my life I'm starting to question most everything I've ever believed. I believe that there is a God, and I do believe that Jesus Christ existed, and that He was God in some way. What I don't believe is that the bible is inerrant. I also have no faith in the church, ANY church right now.

 

[MyBloodRunnethOrange]

Different thought...You are okay with carving all the warnings of god to the unrighteous and unbeleiving out of the scripture and only handing out the feel good stuff? Have kids? You give them a rule. You warn them. They break it. You give them the punishement they were warned of. Whose the ogre? Why would God be any different to his children. If he gives us rules, and we disobey, why is he the unjust one? Were we not the ones at fault. He just did what he said he would do if we insisted on being in the darkeness.

I got into my feelings on this in another thread. The problem I have with this analogy is that when I punish my kids, it will not be with eternal torment. My kids recieve their punishment, but in the end they know that I still love them. God's punishment, as understood by the doctrine of hell, is torture which will never end.

 

[allvol123]

I have a good friend who is a CoC preacher, and I've had numerous discussions with him, causing me to study deeper. That's pretty much my approach with other denominations too. I like to know what a group believes and why they believe it.

Personally, I've been Southern Baptist most of my life, although at this point in my life I'm starting to question most everything I've ever believed. I believe that there is a God, and I do believe that Jesus Christ existed, and that He was God in some way. What I don't believe is that the bible is inerrant. I also have no faith in the church, ANY church right now.

Your faith should not be based on the church, it should be based on the word of God. The church is made up of people, so it will always be flawed.

 

[therealUT]

Your faith should not be based on the church, it should be based on the word of God. The church is made up of people, so it will always be flawed.

The "Word of God" was written by people, so it is also flawed.

 

[MyBloodRunnethOrange]

Your faith should not be based on the church, it should be based on the word of God. The church is made up of people, so it will always be flawed.

I seriously question whether the bible is the "Word of God", and I definitely don't consider it to be inerrant.

 

[GVF]

I have a good friend who is a CoC preacher, and I've had numerous discussions with him, causing me to study deeper. That's pretty much my approach with other denominations too. I like to know what a group believes and why they believe it.

Personally, I've been Southern Baptist most of my life, although at this point in my life I'm starting to question most everything I've ever believed. I believe that there is a God, and I do believe that Jesus Christ existed, and that He was God in some way. What I don't believe is that the bible is inerrant. I also have no faith in the church, ANY church right now.

Makes sense. I think those are common thoughts when struggling with religion in general. Atleast you address them and study for answers.

 

[GVF]

The "Word of God" was written by people, so it is also flawed.

It was written by individuals inspired by God who were present with Jesus and bore witness to all He did and taught. And could validate that authority to the recipients of their letters.

 

[GVF]

I seriously question whether the bible is the "Word of God", and I definitely don't consider it to be inerrant.

That would be the basis of faith. You either can accept that it is or not. When you don't or struggle with the fact that it could be, then that is where the doubts and questions creep in. Even if you do acknowledge and accept the word as truth you still have struggles, but it's different. I've been hitting brick walls for a couple years now, but I do accept the law as the word of God, so while I wonder what could happen next and am weary, the basis of my faith has not shifted.

 

[therealUT]

It was written by individuals inspired by God who were present with Jesus and bore witness to all He did and taught. And could validate that authority to the recipients of their letters.

Less than 10% of the books of the Bible are written by people who were present with Jesus. Also, none of the NT books were written journalistically or during the time in which the things written about were taking place. They were recounting their experiences some 20 and 30 years later, when they realized that Jesus was not going to return during their lifetimes. You are going to tell me that, unlike the rest of humanity, they had absolutely perfect memories of every last word that was said? I am going to have to check the box labeled "No" for that one.

 

[GVF]

I got into my feelings on this in another thread. The problem I have with this analogy is that when I punish my kids, it will not be with eternal torment. My kids recieve their punishment, but in the end they know that I still love them. God's punishment, as understood by the doctrine of hell, is torture which will never end.

True, but the length or type of punishment wasn't the point. In any event, we punish ourselves. No one is singled out. It's a broadly applied reward/punishment system. There is no respector of persons. The law applies to me just as much as anyone.