Religious Survey

[GVF]

All great responses in the allegorical sense of the Bible...

What scripture supplies the allegorical sense verses taking God for what he says. Where does it say :"OK world, here it is, now go and screw it up." Last I checked we were to obey his commands, not reinvent them.

 

[GVF]

All great responses in the allegorical sense of the Bible...

"I am the way, the truth, and the light. No one comes unto the Father except through me."


Jesus or Peter? Jesus or Peter? If the church was built on Peter, I'd go to confession for forgiveness, instead of Christ in prayer.

 

[therealUT]

True. If one truly believes, then he must spread it. I do not find fault in TRUT or MBRO for expressing their beliefs and standing by them as I do mine. TRUT could learn alot from MBRO's approach, but he is only as passionate in his train as I am mine. If he studies that much, I'm sure he will have different pointsin years to come. We all should. Actually, the more time we all spend in the given Word, the closer we should travel over time.

My approach to religion is that whatever works for the individual to provide that person with the grace and strength to continue to serve his neighbors and act unselfishly, is how God speaks to that person. I find God through my faith, which is Catholicism. My wife finds hers through Southern Baptist roots. I would be a fool to try and change that or convert her to my way of seeing the world. I believe that the goal of all family and friends is to push and inspire your friends to get to heaven. I seperate that from pushing and inspiring them to convert to Catholicism. If one finds grace and strength to live a more pious life through Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, then I feel it is wrong for me to pull them away from that. In fact, I should push them to pursue their faith more fully, to find more grace, more strength. Where I step in and say, "You have something wrong," is when anyone states that 'their way' or 'this way' is the only way to get into heaven. Whether it ever overtly manifests itself or not, underneath the surface, the message is 'I am a better human being than you are.'

I was asked an incredible series questions, years ago, when I believed that my way was the way, and I will share them with all of you now:

If a non believer dies, will they ever get into heaven?
If they do not get into heaven, then are they sent to hell?
Will they be tortured eternally in this hell?
Is it God's will that they be sent to hell and tortured for eternity?
Is it just to carry out God's will, in all situations?
Is it morally ok to kill those who do not believe?

It is a very slippery slope my friends...

 

[GVF]

And you have studied the scriptures? You must have only studied those verses which fit your beliefs...
The word 'catholic' literally means universal. Also, I have not gotten violent. I have clearly stated that I believe that all who live a good life will go to heaven. If that seems violent to you, then again, I cannot reason with you.

And yes, I have studied the scriptures. That is why I looked at verses preceding and following those in the entire passage of thought where Jesus addressed Peter and building his church...INSTEAD of only looking at a verse or two. A literalist would pick apart verse by verse and each would have it's own meaning. A truth seeker looks at all verses and thoughts on the subject then trys to interpret what God wants of them.

 

[GVF]

My approach to religion is that whatever works for the individual to provide that person with the grace and strength to continue to serve his neighbors and act unselfishly, is how God speaks to that person. I find God through my faith, which is Catholicism. My wife finds hers through Southern Baptist roots. I would be a fool to try and change that or convert her to my way of seeing the world. I believe that the goal of all family and friends is to push and inspire your friends to get to heaven. I seperate that from pushing and inspiring them to convert to Catholicism. If one finds grace and strength to live a more pious life through Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, then I feel it is wrong for me to pull them away from that. In fact, I should push them to pursue their faith more fully, to find more grace, more strength. Where I step in and say, "You have something wrong," is when anyone states that 'their way' or 'this way' is the only way to get into heaven. Whether it ever overtly manifests itself or not, underneath the surface, the message is 'I am a better human being than you are.'

I was asked an incredible series questions, years ago, when I believed that my way was the way, and I will share them with all of you now:

If a non believer dies, will they ever get into heaven?
If they do not get into heaven, then are they sent to hell?
Will they be tortured eternally in this hell?
Is it God's will that they be sent to hell and tortured for eternity?
Is it just to carry out God's will, in all situations?
Is it morally ok to kill those who do not believe?

It is a very slippery slope my friends...

Yes, it is a very slippery slope. Those are all questions that are addressed specifically in the Bible, and without waiver or contradiction. And very firm and forthright, as well. I think we have been, so i won't beat that horse here. No point in being reduntant since you are aware of our debate. I have not said my way was "the way" or the only way. I do throw caution at altering the words of God to make another religion. If it says baptize, so be it. If it says to eat this bread and drink this cup on the first day when you come together until I come again, so be it. "where the scripture binds,do not loose, and where it looses, do not bind." " Do not add to nor take away."

I appreciate the fact that you try to encourage others. Hopefully you don't accuse them of being terrorists as well. That is not a loveing approach to letting people see christ in your life. Other than being an educated antagonist, if i were lost and searching and reading this thread, you would have scared me off. You did not show me christ in your life. You have attempted to discredit my belief in the Word of God istelf. I feel sorry for your wife if she treads any of these waters around you. does that make her a terrorist as well. Baptists are pretty forthcoming, and except for a few technicalities, not too far removed from the beliefs of the CoC. Your married to alot of what i believe, unless she is not practicing now because of your ways here if you use them at home.
The only way I have stated to get into heaven is through Christ. With that comes certain scriptural teachings on how to do so. If a person has become a new testament christian as taught how to do so in the bible, then who am I. That is for the Lord. I am happy for them. And, not once did i ever say I was a better person than you or anyone else. I challenge you to find that. I am very humble to others in that respect. Maybe to a fault sometimes.

 

[therealUT]

Yes, it is a very slippery slope. Those are all questions that are addressed specifically in the Bible, and without waiver or contradiction. And very firm and forthright, as well. I think we have been, so i won't beat that horse here. No point in being reduntant since you are aware of our debate. I have not said my way was "the way" or the only way. I do throw caution at altering the words of God to make another religion. If it says baptize, so be it. If it says to eat this bread and drink this cup on the first day when you come together until I come again, so be it. "where the scripture binds,do not loose, and where it looses, do not bind." " Do not add to nor take away."

I appreciate the fact that you try to encourage others. Hopefully you don't accuse them of being terrorists as well. That is not a loveing approach to letting people see christ in your life. Other than being an educated antagonist, if i were lost and searching and reading this thread, you would have scared me off. You did not show me christ in your life. You have attempted to discredit my belief in the Word of God istelf. I feel sorry for your wife if she treads any of these waters around you. does that make her a terrorist as well. Baptists are pretty forthcoming, and except for a few technicalities, not too far removed from the beliefs of the CoC. Your married to alot of what i believe, unless she is not practicing now because of your ways here if you use them at home.
The only way I have stated to get into heaven is through Christ. With that comes certain scriptural teachings on how to do so. If a person has become a new testament christian as taught how to do so in the bible, then who am I. That is for the Lord. I am happy for them. And, not once did i ever say I was a better person than you or anyone else. I challenge you to find that. I am very humble to others in that respect. Maybe to a fault sometimes.

If my wife ever stated that only those people that believe in Christ are going to heaven, it would be a very long night...

 

[GVF]

If my wife ever stated that only those people that believe in Christ are going to heaven, it would be a very long night...

I imagine so. :biggrin2:
Do you know what she really believes though? :angel:

 

[therealUT]

Yes, it is a very slippery slope. Those are all questions that are addressed specifically in the Bible, and without waiver or contradiction. And very firm and forthright, as well. I think we have been, so i won't beat that horse here. No point in being reduntant since you are aware of our debate. I have not said my way was "the way" or the only way. I do throw caution at altering the words of God to make another religion. If it says baptize, so be it. If it says to eat this bread and drink this cup on the first day when you come together until I come again, so be it. "where the scripture binds,do not loose, and where it looses, do not bind." " Do not add to nor take away."

I appreciate the fact that you try to encourage others. Hopefully you don't accuse them of being terrorists as well. That is not a loveing approach to letting people see christ in your life. Other than being an educated antagonist, if i were lost and searching and reading this thread, you would have scared me off. You did not show me christ in your life. You have attempted to discredit my belief in the Word of God istelf. I feel sorry for your wife if she treads any of these waters around you. does that make her a terrorist as well. Baptists are pretty forthcoming, and except for a few technicalities, not too far removed from the beliefs of the CoC. Your married to alot of what i believe, unless she is not practicing now because of your ways here if you use them at home.
The only way I have stated to get into heaven is through Christ. With that comes certain scriptural teachings on how to do so. If a person has become a new testament christian as taught how to do so in the bible, then who am I. That is for the Lord. I am happy for them. And, not once did i ever say I was a better person than you or anyone else. I challenge you to find that. I am very humble to others in that respect. Maybe to a fault sometimes.

Stating that only those who believe in Christ, as you do, are allowed entrance into Heaven, is in fact stating that you are better than those who do not believe in Christ. Whether you are willing to admit that or not, is a completely different subject.

 

[GVF]

If my wife ever stated that only those people that believe in Christ are going to heaven, it would be a very long night...

Who else would you beleive in to get to to heaven? That is where They reside.

 

[therealUT]

Who else would you beleive in to get to to heaven? That is where They reside.

Ok, in your opinion, do Muslims make it to heaven? Hindu's? Buddhists? Taosist? Jews?

 

[GVF]

Stating that only those who believe in Christ, as you do, are allowed entrance into Heaven, is in fact stating that you are better than those who do not believe in Christ. Whether you are willing to admit that or not, is a completely different subject.

Not so. Stating truth's of God and believing in those truths is not arrogance. Again, you are missing my point. I did not say only those who beleive in Christ. HE did. Arrogance would be overlooking them because they are not saved. I don't overlook people nor consider myself superior. I am saved. And if anyone has any interest in it I will share it with them.

 

[therealUT]

Not so. Stating truth's of God and believing in those truths is not arrogance. Again, you are missing my point. I did not say only those who beleive in Christ. HE did. Arrogance would be overlooking them because they are not saved. I don't overlook people nor consider myself superior. I am saved. And if anyone has any interest in it I will share it with them.

Isn't pride the root of all sin? Have fun in heaven, man...

 

[GVF]

Ok, in your opinion, do Muslims make it to heaven? Hindu's? Buddhists? Taosist? Jews?

Now you are tsting my posts. As I stated ealrier I am not able to judge people. The only answer I can give as a Christian to that, is do they have christ, have they come to christ as given in the scripture. God knows them and they will stand together for judgement. I don't have that power. All I can do is "worship in truth and spirit", and take that word into the world as the great commission commanded. "Apollos planted, Paul watered, and God gave the increase." My responsiblility is to plant or water. If one dies in their sin/dies in darkeness/dies outside Christ, I don't think they'll make it heaven.

 

[therealUT]

Now you are tsting my posts. As I stated ealrier I am not able to judge people. The only answer I can give as a Christian to that, is do they have christ, have they come to christ as given in the scripture. God knows them and they will stand together for judgement. I don't have that power. All I can do is "worship in truth and spirit", and take that word into the world as the great commission commanded. "Apollos planted, Paul watered, and God gave the increase." My responsiblility is to plant or water. If one dies in their sin/dies in darkeness/dies outside Christ, I don't think they'll make it heaven.

They were 'yes/no' questions. However, let me rephrase them for you:

If a devout Hindu, who does not believe in Jesus Christ, dies, does he go to Heaven?

If a devout Muslim, who does not believe in Jesus Christ, dies, does he go to Heaven?

If a devout Buddhist, who does not believe in Jesus Christ, dies, does he go to Heaven?

If a devout Jew, who does not believe in Jesus Christ, dies, does he go to Heaven?

 

[GVF]

Further...If someone does ask me about salvation and wants to change their life, I will study with them these things, as the scripture presents it, not me.

 

[therealUT]

Further...If someone does ask me about salvation and wants to change their life, I will study with them these things, as the scripture presents it, not me.

Again, you are dodging the questions. Of course, I knew you would, because you do not want to state outright that these people are going to hell...even though that is what you firmly believe. Again, you try to rationalize when I tell you that you are arrogant and believe yourself to be better than these people. If you have the favor of God, then why not come out and say, "YES, I AM A BETTER PERSON THAN THE INFIDEL." You might lose favor among non believers, however, wouldn't you gain even more favor with God? Please, step out from behind the curtain, and state that you are better than 80% of the people on the earth right now. If you are going to talk religion, you might as well be honest with yourself.

 

[GVF]

They were 'yes/no' questions. However, let me rephrase them for you:

If a devout Hindu, who does not believe in Jesus Christ, dies, does he go to Heaven?

If a devout Muslim, who does not believe in Jesus Christ, dies, does he go to Heaven?

If a devout Buddhist, who does not believe in Jesus Christ, dies, does he go to Heaven?

If a devout Jew, who does not believe in Jesus Christ, dies, does he go to Heaven?

Again, I could only let the scripture answer that to them. An individual can only answer that to themselves. "When they heard these things, they were pricked in their heart...". If a person truly opens themselves to the truth after they hear it or read, they will know that answer. You have been in and out of several faiths, or studied them, or questioned yours or whatever. But, if you can say without a doubt, by the scripture as you know it that you have been saved according to the scripture in your knowledge and understanding of it, then how can I refute that. The scriptures speak to those that will hear. I will not ever, and have not ever, given a yes/no answer to those questions. I do not know that person, nor has God allowed me to pass judgement on anyone but myself. I only carry the bible. I can only bear the truth as I know it, and each has to go from there in their own right.

 

[allvol123]

Again, you are dodging the questions. Of course, I knew you would, because you do not want to state outright that these people are going to hell...even though that is what you firmly believe. Again, you try to rationalize when I tell you that you are arrogant and believe yourself to be better than these people. If you have the favor of God, then why not come out and say, "YES, I AM A BETTER PERSON THAN THE INFIDEL." You might lose favor among non believers, however, wouldn't you gain even more favor with God? Please, step out from behind the curtain, and state that you are better than 80% of the people on the earth right now. If you are going to talk religion, you might as well be honest with yourself.

what exactly are you trying to prove here? you sound as if you are 100% positive that you know the route to heaven.

 

[therealUT]

what exactly are you trying to prove here? you sound as if you are 100% positive that you know the route to heaven.

The exact opposite. I have no idea. However, I am not arrogant enough to state that over 80% of God's created people are just destined to eternal damnation, not because of the way they conducted their lives, but because they never believed in Jesus Christ.

 

[GVF]

Again, you are dodging the questions. Of course, I knew you would, because you do not want to state outright that these people are going to hell...even though that is what you firmly believe. Again, you try to rationalize when I tell you that you are arrogant and believe yourself to be better than these people. If you have the favor of God, then why not come out and say, "YES, I AM A BETTER PERSON THAN THE INFIDEL." You might lose favor among non believers, however, wouldn't you gain even more favor with God? Please, step out from behind the curtain, and state that you are better than 80% of the people on the earth right now. If you are going to talk religion, you might as well be honest with yourself.

Did Christ himself ever say, imply, or carry the behavior that He was better than anyone else. nd He was THE MAN that all this is based on. He dined with the siiners and avoided the Pharisees. If being saved means you are superior, why did he go to the sinners and not the elite of the day. Why then would I be arrogant because I bleieve I am going to heaven based on God's teachings.

 

[GVF]

The exact opposite. I have no idea. However, I am not arrogant enough to state that over 80% of God's created people are just destined to eternal damnation, not because of the way they conducted their lives, but because they never believed in Jesus Christ.

That's the beauty of it. You don't have do. God already did. Accept, or not. that is our choice. Read the scriptures. He clearly condemns the unbelieving, all the way back to Adam. WE don't have to judge. WE can't. We can only preach the truth, and that is as far as God commanded us to take it. It is His word we are to preach. HE gave it to us. We tweak it around for some reason.

 

[GVF]

what exactly are you trying to prove here? you sound as if you are 100% positive that you know the route to heaven.

Actually, Christ knows that route. I am sure he is 100% positive. I'm still human by all means.

 

[therealUT]

That's the beauty of it. You don't have do. God already did. Accept, or not. that is our choice. Read the scriptures. He clearly condemns the unbelieving, all the way back to Adam. WE don't have to judge. WE can't. We can only preach the truth, and that is as far as God commanded us to take it. It is His word we are to preach. HE gave it to us. We tweak it around for some reason.

Since you won't answer any of my questions, regarding generic believers of other faiths, I will specify...

Do you believe that Mahatma Ghandi is in hell?

 

[GVF]

Since you won't answer any of my questions, regarding generic believers of other faiths, I will specify...

Do you believe that Mahatma Ghandi is in hell?

Never spoke to him. Don't know the condition of his soul when he died. Don't personally know about his salvation. I would think a person of his stature would be knowledgeable in the truth, and also be knowledgeable to act on it. I personally, don't know if he did or didn't.


Different thought...You are okay with carving all the warnings of god to the unrighteous and unbeleiving out of the scripture and only handing out the feel good stuff? Have kids? You give them a rule. You warn them. They break it. You give them the punishement they were warned of. Whose the ogre? Why would God be any different to his children. If he gives us rules, and we disobey, why is he the unjust one? Were we not the ones at fault. He just did what he said he would do if we insisted on being in the darkeness.

 

[allvol123]

Since you won't answer any of my questions, regarding generic believers of other faiths, I will specify...

Do you believe that Mahatma Ghandi is in hell?

I will answer, somewhat. I am not sure where Ghandi is, as I am only human. But I believe you are trying to convey that since he was a good man, that he is surely in heaven. I do not know if this is true or not. Do you think he is in heaven? I understand alot of your points, but I would say in relation to the eternal resting place of my soul, I would prefer to error on the side of caution. That is definitely not my reason for believing, but it makes me wonder why, people who are on the "fence", would not believe in Jesus Christ.