Rep. Giffords of Arizona shot

#601
#601
The right wing response to this is sadly and laughably predictable. Absent a literal smoking gun link between the incident and their venomous and irresponsible rhetorical assault on Democrats over the past three years, they claim it therefore has ZERO relationship. That's it: set the bar impossibly high and then dismiss any connection whatsoever.

Absent a picture of the guy at a tea party meeting, or absent a copy of a campaign contribution check by the guy made out to Sarah Palin, the right wing hate machine will disavow any possible connection to the poisonous atmosphere they have created or contributed to and yet another loon taking matters into his own hands.

He was mentally ill. Bought a gun. Went to a town hall meeting of a Democrat in Arizona where white pride/power groups are bashing everyone in sight, and shoots a Democratic congresswoman who had just gotten past a tough contest with a tea party guy. He is anti-government and hates the Treasury.

And yet you are arguing that because he also dislikes Bush or likes the Communist manifesto that absolves the right wing hate machine of all responsibility.

As I say, it does not surprise me one bit that Limbaugh and Beck are on the radio crying foul today at being linked to this in the minds of the majority of Americans. That's right, I said it. There is going to be an outcome to this at the ballot box and in the polls that the tea party doesn't like.

Thinking objective people understand the criticism here and its not made up. Yopu can deny it all you want, but its real and its perceived as real. And if by chance there is a direct link established it will be that much worse. Even without one, Beck Palin and Fox are correctly being criticized for their contribution to the air of suspicion and thinly-camouflaged hate directed at Democrats and Obama.
 
#602
#602
CountVolcula said:
I'm neither

I consider myself an American. With American views and values

Unlike some of the Liberals who look up to Europe more than their own country

They must enlighten us ugly Americans.
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Who are these liberals?

I wasn't calling anyone out specifically, but there is a race to create distance right now. Create distance from the 800lbs gorilla playing Anita Ward.
 
#603
#603
lawgator1 said:
The right wing response to this is sadly and laughably predictable. Absent a literal smoking gun link between the incident and their venomous and irresponsible rhetorical assault on Democrats over the past three years, they claim it therefore has ZERO relationship. That's it: set the bar impossibly high and then dismiss any connection whatsoever.

Absent a picture of the guy at a tea party meeting, or absent a copy of a campaign contribution check by the guy made out to Sarah Palin, the right wing hate machine will disavow any possible connection to the poisonous atmosphere they have created or contributed to and yet another loon taking matters into his own hands.

He was mentally ill. Bought a gun. Went to a town hall meeting of a Democrat in Arizona where white pride/power groups are bashing everyone in sight, and shoots a Democratic congresswoman who had just gotten past a tough contest with a tea party guy. He is anti-government and hates the Treasury.

And yet you are arguing that because he also dislikes Bush or likes the Communist manifesto that absolves the right wing hate machine of all responsibility.

As I say, it does not surprise me one bit that Limbaugh and Beck are on the radio crying foul today at being linked to this in the minds of the majority of Americans. That's right, I said it. There is going to be an outcome to this at the ballot box and in the polls that the tea party doesn't like.

Thinking objective people understand the criticism here and its not made up. Yopu can deny it all you want, but its real and its perceived as real. And if by chance there is a direct link established it will be that much worse. Even without one, Beck Palin and Fox are correctly being criticized for their contribution to the air of suspicion and thinly-camouflaged hate directed at Democrats and Obama.
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The Emperor does indeed have no clothes. Well said.
 
#604
#604
lawgator1 said:
The right wing response to this is sadly and laughably predictable. Absent a literal smoking gun link between the incident and their venomous and irresponsible rhetorical assault on Democrats over the past three years, they claim it therefore has ZERO relationship. That's it: set the bar impossibly high and then dismiss any connection whatsoever.

Absent a picture of the guy at a tea party meeting, or absent a copy of a campaign contribution check by the guy made out to Sarah Palin, the right wing hate machine will disavow any possible connection to the poisonous atmosphere they have created or contributed to and yet another loon taking matters into his own hands.

He was mentally ill. Bought a gun. Went to a town hall meeting of a Democrat in Arizona where white pride/power groups are bashing everyone in sight, and shoots a Democratic congresswoman who had just gotten past a tough contest with a tea party guy. He is anti-government and hates the Treasury.

And yet you are arguing that because he also dislikes Bush or likes the Communist manifesto that absolves the right wing hate machine of all responsibility.

As I say, it does not surprise me one bit that Limbaugh and Beck are on the radio crying foul today at being linked to this in the minds of the majority of Americans. That's right, I said it. There is going to be an outcome to this at the ballot box and in the polls that the tea party doesn't like.

Thinking objective people understand the criticism here and its not made up. Yopu can deny it all you want, but its real and its perceived as real. And if by chance there is a direct link established it will be that much worse. Even without one, Beck Palin and Fox are correctly being criticized for their contribution to the air of suspicion and thinly-camouflaged hate directed at Democrats and Obama.
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Uhhhh.......

Jared Loughner, Alleged Shooter in Gabrielle Giffords Attack, Described by Classmate as "Left-Wing Pothead" - Phoenix News - Valley Fever

Can you please provide a link to his right-wing fringe connection other than he didn't like the Treasury?

I realize it's a lot easier to just generalize or use this to further a personal agenda, but I would like to see some established proof to back your belief. So far every piece of information that has come out about the guy (that I have seen) has shown if anything he had was pretty liberal with no political affiliation at best.
 
#605
#605
lawgator1 said:
The right wing response to this is sadly and laughably predictable. Absent a literal smoking gun link between the incident and their venomous and irresponsible rhetorical assault on Democrats over the past three years, they claim it therefore has ZERO relationship. That's it: set the bar impossibly high and then dismiss any connection whatsoever.

Absent a picture of the guy at a tea party meeting, or absent a copy of a campaign contribution check by the guy made out to Sarah Palin, the right wing hate machine will disavow any possible connection to the poisonous atmosphere they have created or contributed to and yet another loon taking matters into his own hands.

He was mentally ill. Bought a gun. Went to a town hall meeting of a Democrat in Arizona where white pride/power groups are bashing everyone in sight, and shoots a Democratic congresswoman who had just gotten past a tough contest with a tea party guy. He is anti-government and hates the Treasury.

And yet you are arguing that because he also dislikes Bush or likes the Communist manifesto that absolves the right wing hate machine of all responsibility.

As I say, it does not surprise me one bit that Limbaugh and Beck are on the radio crying foul today at being linked to this in the minds of the majority of Americans. That's right, I said it. There is going to be an outcome to this at the ballot box and in the polls that the tea party doesn't like.

Thinking objective people understand the criticism here and its not made up. Yopu can deny it all you want, but its real and its perceived as real. And if by chance there is a direct link established it will be that much worse. Even without one, the left will stir the political pot with prejudice and bigotry in an attempt to gain political ground no matter the truth or tragedy Beck Palin and Fox are correctly being criticized for their contribution to the air of suspicion and thinly-camouflaged hate directed at Democrats and Obama.
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fyp
 
#606
#606
utgibbs said:
Who are these liberals?

I wasn't calling anyone out specifically, but there is a race to create distance right now. Create distance from the 800lbs gorilla playing Anita Ward.
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You keep saying this and I don't get it. There is not a halfway sane Republican/Right Wing/Conservative/whatever that doesn't already have a couple light years of distance between themselves and this nutcase. For that matter as long as you keep the "halfway sane" criteria in force you can be a Democrat/Left Wing/Liberal/whatever and have the same distance built in.
 
#607
#607
tigervol9802 said:
Uhhhh.......

Jared Loughner, Alleged Shooter in Gabrielle Giffords Attack, Described by Classmate as "Left-Wing Pothead" - Phoenix News - Valley Fever

Can you please provide a link to his right-wing fringe connection other than he didn't like the Treasury?

I realize it's a lot easier to just generalize or use this to further a personal agenda, but I would like to see some established proof to back your belief. So far every piece of information that has come out about the guy (that I have seen) has shown if anything he had was pretty liberal with no political affiliation at best.
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Its not his personal politics that are the issue. As many on here said yesterday (me included) he's apparently all over the map.

Its the fact that the TP and the right wing hate machine openly endorse revolution if you have to, and maybe even gunplay if you really need to, in order to reform government because you don't like who won a particular race.
 
#608
#608
lawgator1 said:
Its not his personal politics that are the issue. As many on here said yesterday (me included) he's apparently all over the map.

Its the fact that the TP and the right wing hate machine openly endorse revolution if you have to, and maybe even gunplay if you really need to, in order to reform government because you don't like who won a particular race.
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Wow.

Just wow.

Apparently I am just not smart enough to see how the guy was somehow influenced more that being a crazed loon. If anything, given his videos, he probably hated the tea party because of the vicious mind control they exerted over their base, in his warped world.

The guy was a loon. It's been documented for several years he was a loon. He needed help. He didn't get it. He snapped. End of story.
 
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#610
#610
lawgator1 said:
The right wing response to this is sadly and laughably predictable. ....
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Funny since what drew me to the political forum in this instance is because as soon as I heard about the incident I knew exactly what your response would be.
 
#611
#611
mugshot... wow:
t1main.jared.loughner.mug.usm.jpg
 
#612
#612
lawgator1 said:
Its the fact that the TP and the right wing hate machine openly endorse revolution if you have to, and maybe even gunplay if you really need to, in order to reform government because you don't like who won a particular race.
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Thankfully, we've got you to elevate the discussion with high minded, civil debate like above.
 
#613
#613
VolDad said:
Funny since what drew me to the political forum in this instance is because as soon as I heard about the incident I knew exactly what your response would be.
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If you saw what I said yesterday, I stand behind it. I do not "blame" Palin, Beck, or the Tea Party for causing this guy to do this in the sense that I don't think he was politically motivated. I don't at this point have any reason to believe he did this to make a political statement (in the traditional way we view politics).

But I do think that they, and we, should take this as an example of how there are some people out there who already are so on the fringe that anything done to make it acceptable to speak in terms of Second Amendment remedies (greeted by hoots and cheers of support) should be reconsidered.
 
#615
#615
GAVol said:
Thankfully, we've got you to elevate the discussion with high minded, civil debate like above.
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You referring to the fact that I won't sugar coat my disdain for people who run on, make money off of, or try to lead people by saying that its okay to shoot an elected person if you don't like him?

Okay.
 
#617
#617
lawgator1 said:
You referring to the fact that I won't sugar coat my disdain for people who run on, make money off of, or try to lead people by saying that its okay to shoot an elected person if you don't like him?

Okay.
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You do realize there are idiots on both sides that approve of violence and any means necessary to prove their point, right?
 
#618
#618
lawgator1 said:
You referring to the fact that I won't sugar coat my disdain for people who run on, make money off of, or try to lead people by saying that its okay to shoot an elected person if you don't like him?

Okay.
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You know as well as I do that it's the height of intellectual dishonesty to insinuate that anybody remotely in the neighboring zip code of the mainstream does that . . . yet you throw that out to stir the pot.

That's exactly the kind of garbage that yields the "vitriol" from the other side. One side says something outlandish. The other side yells a little louder. It's exactly the style of debate that you claim to have disdain for.
 
#619
#619
This has shocked everybody in the US. Sadly it happens almost every day in Mexico.
 
#620
#620
GAVol said:
You know as well as I do that it's the height of intellectual dishonesty to insinuate that anybody remotely in the neighboring zip code of the mainstream does that . . . yet you throw that out to stir the pot.

That's exactly the kind of garbage that yields the "vitriol" from the other side. One side says something outlandish. The other side yells a little louder. It's exactly the style of debate that you claim to have disdain for.
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Sharron Angle was heavily financed and supported by the Tea Party and the GOP. She said:

"I hope that's not where we're going, but you know if this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies and saying my goodness what can we do to turn this country around? I'll tell you the first thing we need to do is take Harry Reid out."

Would have been nice to have the Tea Party and the GOP at the time say they disavowed that.

But they didn't.
 
#622
#622
Are you left leaning guys really prepared to suppress free speech over this? The suggestion that the "vitriol" has been worse from the right since Obama took office than it was from the left when Bush was in office is pure delusion. What Obama is getting is tame compared to "Bush lied and people died" and various other "vitriol" coming from the left. I think Bush deserved criticism. I think even the over the top stuff was protected by our 1st Amendment rights.

But now that the shoe is on the other foot... I can't help but protest the hypocrisy being displayed on the left from leaders down to posters on this board.
 
#623
#623
lawgator1 said:
Sharron Angle was heavily financed and supported by the Tea Party and the GOP. She said:

"I hope that's not where we're going, but you know if this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies and saying my goodness what can we do to turn this country around? I'll tell you the first thing we need to do is take Harry Reid out."

Would have been nice to have the Tea Party and the GOP at the time say they disavowed that.

But they didn't.
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There was no reason to. Removing Harry Reid from office would have been significant progress toward fixing the country.

If the left keeps pushing to take away our fundamental constitutional rights then it will eventually come to either an amicable separation or violence. The problem is that you don't see YOUR provocation of such comments and feelings. Progressives are the ones trying to change things and deny people their rights... then you want to complain when people stand up and say no?

Why don't you apply the left wing approach to Muslim anger toward the US... and consider the reasons behind why so many of us are "ANGRY" at the left and Big Gov't?
 
#624
#624
lawgator1 said:
But I do think that they, and we, should take this as an example of how there are some people out there who already are so on the fringe that anything done to make it acceptable to speak in terms of Second Amendment remedies (greeted by hoots and cheers of support) should be reconsidered.
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I'll agree if you will do the same about using big gov't as a means of forcing us to accept the ideals of the left and behave as liberals want us to...
 
#625
#625
sjt18 said:
There was no reason to. Removing Harry Reid from office would have been significant progress toward fixing the country
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By shooting him? What else could she have possibly been alluding to?
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