Rep Massie posts gun photo

#403
#403
lawgator1 said:
Same criminal penalties should apply to an accidental straw man purchase.
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Straw purchase law is pretty clear about the intent involved in the purchase so there really isn’t any accidental. Ignorance of the law is no excuse since it’s a clear question on the 4473.
 
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#404
#404
C-south said:
He can go buy a gun for his wife from a dealer he just can’t say that’s what it’s for.
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ATF recognizes a bona fide gift purchase but the gift recipient must still meet the legal standards to possess the firearm. These usually occur between immediate family members.
 
#405
#405
Vol8188 said:
The one time I’ve done that I was selling to an individual in another state also. Idk if that changes anything
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I don’t think there’s any law to prevent you from meeting up with someone at an FFL and have them pay the fee for the FFL do the background check if you want to be really safe. I would assume that would be a must when selling across state lines.
 
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#406
#406
McDad said:
Are you saying if a legal buyer was consistently found to have their guns wind up in the hands of undocumented owners, there wouldn't be severe consequences? I am taking you at face value when you say multi sales are a big problem. Big, consistent problems typically don't go unchecked sans consequences.
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I don't know. Let's say Sam has purchased 50 guns over the past year and 2 have been discovered at crime scenes. I do not know what happens at that point. Is he charged with something? Does he lose his right to purchase firearms for awhile? Forever?
If it's nothing more than a little slap on the wrist, then Sam will keep on.
 
#407
#407
luthervol said:
I don't know. Let's say Sam has purchased 50 guns over the past year and 2 have been discovered at crime scenes. I do not know what happens at that point. Is he charged with something? Does he lose his right to purchase firearms for awhile? Forever?
If it's nothing more than a little slap on the wrist, then Sam will keep on.
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Could we apply that rule to Uncle Sam? Seems to me that the ATF is a stellar source for illegal weapons. We also left a couple weapons behind in Afghanistan. Yet the government has the audacity to try to make it difficult for law abiding US citizens to exercise their constitutional rights to purchase firearms.
 
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#410
#410
C-south said:
I don’t think there’s any law to prevent you from meeting up with someone at an FFL and have them pay the fee for the FFL do the background check if you want to be really safe. I would assume that would be a must when selling across state lines.
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Selling across state lines normally requires at least one FFL (buyer’s end) and sometimes two (buyer & seller) depending on the states involved as the firearm may need to be transferred via FFL to FFL.
 
#411
#411
luthervol said:
I don't know. Let's say Sam has purchased 50 guns over the past year and 2 have been discovered at crime scenes. I do not know what happens at that point. Is he charged with something? Does he lose his right to purchase firearms for awhile? Forever?
If it's nothing more than a little slap on the wrist, then Sam will keep on.
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According to the ATF website, bulk purchasers must fill out forms allowing for those weapons to be tracked. Bulk-purchased guns used by prohibited persons or in crimes is evidence of trafficking.

What is the sentence for gun trafficking?
The count of conspiracy to engage in the business of unlicensed firearms dealing carries a maximum potential penalty of five years in prison and a $250,000 fine.
 
#412
#412
luthervol said:
I don't know. Let's say Sam has purchased 50 guns over the past year and 2 have been discovered at crime scenes. I do not know what happens at that point. Is he charged with something? Does he lose his right to purchase firearms for awhile? Forever?
If it's nothing more than a little slap on the wrist, then Sam will keep on.
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Why in the hell would Sam be in any trouble if he sold any of his guns to legal buyer?
 
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#413
#413
DynaLo said:
Selling across state lines normally requires at least one FFL (buyer’s end) and sometimes two (buyer & seller) depending on the states involved as the firearm may need to be transferred via FFL to FFL.
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I’ve bought from another state and had it shipped to my local FFL. I didn’t know how it worked if you sold in person across state lines but assumed it involved at least one FFL in the state you were selling.
 
#414
#414
luthervol said:
I don't know. Let's say Sam has purchased 50 guns over the past year and 2 have been discovered at crime scenes. I do not know what happens at that point. Is he charged with something? Does he lose his right to purchase firearms for awhile? Forever?
If it's nothing more than a little slap on the wrist, then Sam will keep on.
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Did Sam report them as stolen, does he have a Bill of Sale for them or were they a bona fide gift to family? No. Then Sam’s probably going to get strongly looked at for straw purchases by the Feds and that’s a whole kettle of worms getting opened up into every purchase he’s made.

He better know exactly where on the lake that tragic boating incident happened.

There are obvious signs of a straw purchase that most FFL look out for and they will deny the sale. It’s not worth losing that license over.
 
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#417
#417
Vol8188 said:
It tells us there’s an obvious issue with black culture. I can’t say what exactly the issues are but here’s some thoughts. I can say the issue is black culture because even if we adjust for poverty you still see crime rates that are unheard of for any other group in America.

Some of that is likely from a glorification of violence. Some of it is a left wing push to depolice black neighborhoods. Some of it is a lack of stable family structures that is a result of both the welfare state and the sexual revolution.

I can also tell you what it’s not. It’s not a result of poverty. It’s not the result of slavery. It’s not the result of red lining or systemic racism. None of those things makes you kill another person.
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It is indeed an issue of poverty. You seem very vested in believing otherwise. Understandable.
I think you would find an increased murder rate in every impoverished region in the world.
black, white, yellow, brown, blue, or green
I'm sure you saw the same in every European slum 200 years ago.
You would be better off taking the urban/rural angle - but you would still find poverty the leading indicator.
 
#419
#419
McDad said:
According to the ATF website, bulk purchasers must fill out forms allowing for those weapons to be tracked. Bulk-purchased guns used by prohibited persons or in crimes is evidence of trafficking.

What is the sentence for gun trafficking?
The count of conspiracy to engage in the business of unlicensed firearms dealing carries a maximum potential penalty of five years in prison and a $250,000 fine.
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All good and appropriate, but is it true that only the sell of handguns must be reported?
 
#421
#421
hog88 said:
Why in the hell would Sam be in any trouble if he sold any of his guns to legal buyer?
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What? I'm talking about the high probability that he sold at least 2 of the 50 to illegal buyers.
 
#422
#422
McDad said:
The Gun Control Act (GCA) of 1968 requires federal firearms licensees (FFLs) to send a report to ATF when there is a sale of multiple firearms to the same purchaser within a certain time period.
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The same report says this:
Licensees must report the sale of two or more handguns if they occur at the same time or within five consecutive business days of each other.

What constitutes multiple firearms and "within a certain time period" for other types of guns?
 
#424
#424
luthervol said:
It is indeed an issue of poverty. You seem very vested in believing otherwise. Understandable.
I think you would find an increased murder rate in every impoverished region in the world.
black, white, yellow, brown, blue, or green
I'm sure you saw the same in every European slum 200 years ago.
You would be better off taking the urban/rural angle - but you would still find poverty the leading indicator.
Click to expand...

If it’s an issue of poverty then you’d expect to see poverty predict homicide rates. Yet it doesn’t. But what does? Racial makeup.

If your claim were true, white people would not just commit the majority of homicides, black people would only commit 26% of of homicides (the % of black people on food stamps), instead they double that rate.

What do you find when you look at the data? You find the blacker the state, not the more improvised the state, the more likely it is to have high homicide.

Examples: DC, MS, Louisiana are top 3 in homicides per capita and top 3 in black population as a %.

West Virginia is 3rd lowest in GDP per capita, Idaho is 4th lowest, WV is 23rd in homicide rate, Idaho is 49th (out of 51 because I’m counting DC). KY is 7th lowest in GDP yet 19th in homicide, Maine is 8th lowest in GDP yet Maine is 50th in homicide rates, Montana is 9th lowest in GDP yet 31st in homicide rates.

The poverty=crime (especially violent crime) argument does not hold water. The homicide issue in this country is clearly not a problem of poverty.

Edit: that’s 6 of the ten poorest states and the highest any of them rank is 19th, with two of them being in the bottom 3 in terms of lowest homicide

Blackest states (including DC) with their homicide ranking
1. DC 1st
2. Mississippi 4th
3. Louisiana 2nd
4. Georgia 11th
5. Maryland 10th
6. South Carolina 6th
7. Alabama 7th
8: Delaware 17th
9. North Carolina 12th
10. Virginia 25th

The highest indicator for violence is not the poverty of an area (DC is the wealthier than any state, despite having the worst homicide rates).

The clear correlation here is racial not economic
 
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