Rep Massie posts gun photo

[KB5252]

I'm sure poverty and murder rates are correlated within all races.

I'm sure the statistics show some correlation, I wonder if the percentages are fairly even among the different races. I'd like to see a number of studies from different sources. Sadly, my issues with attention disorders won't allow me to deep dive.

 

[KB5252]

The reason we don't have harsh enforcement of large scale gun trafficking is simple, the American government with the help of it's agencies is the worlds largest sponsor of gun trafficking. That would be bad for business.

 

[luthervol]

Of course. It’s crime/economic data from the NY Federal Reserve.

https://www.newyorkfed.org/medialibrary/media/research/epr/99v05n3/9909levi.pdf

The table was specific to Chicago. The median household income was by community. The homicide rate was the number of people per 100,000 murdered in that community. The number of white homicides in the 0-10% neighborhoods went down to almost zero (because there were no white people in those neighborhoods) The number of homicides in the 90+ percentile communities were 2.9 for white and 10.0 for black. That is no way saying that black people in the upper 10% are committing murders; only that of the people murdered in the richest communities, about 3 times more are black (the homicide victims did not necessarily live in the communities in which they were killed).

 

[KB5252]

The reason we don't have harsh enforcement of large scale gun trafficking is simple, the American government with the help of it's agencies is the worlds largest sponsor of gun trafficking. That would be bad for business.

And to add to this thought our government has mastered the art of playing both sides. They need the NRA and other lobbyists to push their agenda for pro gun enthusiasm, then they use the anti gun lobby and supporters to keep the population in check so the types of weapons/support needed to keep the government honest and fearful aren't available.

It's a delicate but horrible art. This is just one of the many reasons I hate our politicians. Spineless cowards.

 

[Vol8188]

The table was specific to Chicago. The median household income was by community. The homicide rate was the number of people per 100,000 murdered in that community. The number of white homicides in the 0-10% neighborhoods went down to almost zero (because there were no white people in those neighborhoods) The number of homicides in the 90+ percentile communities were 2.9 for white and 10.0 for black. That is no way saying that black people in the upper 10% are committing murders; only that of the people murdered in the richest communities, about 3 times more are black (the homicide victims did not necessarily live in the communities in which they were killed).

I’m curious. We do agree that race is a higher indicator of violent crime than poverty, correct? The state data I’ve provided you alone proves that, correct?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

If you want to cut down on the use of handguns in crimes, the obvious answer is to arrest and prosecute criminals to the full extent of the law. Of course, Democrats don't want to do that.

I would start further back then that. We need to incentivize traditional nuclear families and get fathers back in the homes.

You start at the origin and you don't need to worry about increasing law enforcement.

 

[hog88]

Just enforce the laws on the books.

Plus repeal most of them.

 

[luthervol]

I’m curious. We do agree that race is a higher indicator of violent crime than poverty, correct? The state data I’ve provided you alone proves that, correct?

I believe poverty is the biggest indicator. If you go back to that study from Chicago you linked, there was a table (Table 1) that listed numerical correlations, race was 4th highest out of 5. Unemployment, poverty, and female headed homes all had a higher correlation than race.
So even the link you posted disproves your hypothesis.
your link:
https://www.newyorkfed.org/medialibrary/media/research/epr/99v05n3/9909levi.pdf

 

[TNVOLNAVY]

 

[Vol8188]

I believe poverty is the biggest indicator. If you go back to that study from Chicago you linked, there was a table (Table 1) that listed numerical correlations, race was 4th highest out of 5. Unemployment, poverty, and female headed homes all had a higher correlation than race.
So even the link you posted disproves your hypothesis.
your link:
https://www.newyorkfed.org/medialibrary/media/research/epr/99v05n3/9909levi.pdf

That’s literally the complete opposite of what it states.

“It is not surprising that many studies that include both poverty and income inequality find one or both of these variables insignificant”

“Interestingly the link between crime and poverty has substantially weakened over the same time period. In fact, for whites, there is not relationship between median family income and homicide rates in the 1990s.”

Let’s add to this data the fact I stated easier. 6/10 of the poorest states are not even in the top half in terms of homicides per capita.

10/10 of the blackest states are on the top half in terms of homicides per capita.

Which one is a stronger correlation?

 

[AshG]

That’s literally the complete opposite of what it states.

“It is not surprising that many studies that include both poverty and income inequality find one or both of these variables insignificant”

“Interestingly the link between crime and poverty has substantially weakened over the same time period. In fact, for whites, there is not relationship between median family income and homicide rates in the 1990s.”

Let’s add to this data the fact I stated easier. 6/10 of the poorest states are not even in the top half in terms of homicides per capita.

10/10 of the blackest states are on the top half in terms of homicides per capita.

Which one is a stronger correlation?

I'm not contesting your data, just asking you to consider another wrinkle. Could population density also be a factor? Protecting territory (real or imagined) and resources might be part of the equation.

Then my mind wanders to what created the situation where AAs ended up and remain in more dense population centers. I'm shutting that thought process down until I finish my coffee.

 

[Vol8188]

I'm not contesting your data, just asking you to consider another wrinkle. Could population density also be a factor? Protecting territory (real or imagined) and resources might be part of the equation.

Sure but one issue is densely populated white areas have low homicide rates. For example Cheyenne Wy and Memphis TN are nearly equal in population density.

 

[AshG]

Sure but one issue is densely populated white areas have low homicide rates. For example Cheyenne Wy and Memphis TN are nearly equal in population density.

Thanks for that data point, I wasn't aware of that.

 

[luthervol]

That’s literally the complete opposite of what it states.

“It is not surprising that many studies that include both poverty and income inequality find one or both of these variables insignificant”

“Interestingly the link between crime and poverty has substantially weakened over the same time period. In fact, for whites, there is not relationship between median family income and homicide rates in the 1990s.”

Let’s add to this data the fact I stated easier. 6/10 of the poorest states are not even in the top half in terms of homicides per capita.

10/10 of the blackest states are on the top half in terms of homicides per capita.

Which one is a stronger correlation?

I would have to consider the other variables. Like in the Chicago study you linked.
Unemployment, female headed households, income disparity, population density, educational attainment.....

 

[luthervol]

Sure but one issue is densely populated white areas have low homicide rates. For example Cheyenne Wy and Memphis TN are nearly equal in population density.

lol...Cheyenne has a population of 67,000

 

[Vol8188]

lol...Cheyenne has a population of 67,000

And a population density of about 2,000 per sq mile. Comparable to Memphis. Since the data is per capita the overall size should not matter if the density is similar

 

[Vol8188]

I would have to consider the other variables. Like in the Chicago study you linked.
Unemployment, female headed households, income disparity, population density, educational attainment.....

10/10 blackest states including DC are upper half in terms of homicide rate.

Only 4/10 of the poorest states are in the top 25 in homicide rate.

How do you explain away that data?

 

[landscapingvol]

Rep. Thomas Massie posts family gun photo for Christmas, asks Santa for ammo days after school shooting in Michigan - CNN


Just incredibly wrong to post that photo. Hope even the gun folks here see his post as utterly tasteless.

Stupid photo? Yes without question. Wrong? In no way is it wrong or tied into school shootings, other than your imagination

 

[AshG]

10/10 blackest states including DC are upper half in terms of homicide rate.

Only 4/10 of the poorest states are in the top 25 in homicide rate.

How do you explain away that data?

If only there were a line of research inquiry that studied the AA experience historically, economically, politically, spiritually, and promoted discussion to address the negative factors affecting the community that promote violence and prevent upward mobility...

(And before anyone gets triggered, I'm not hinting at CRT)

 

[hog88]

If only there were a line of research inquiry that studied the AA experience historically, economically, politically, spiritually, and promoted discussion to address the negative factors affecting the community that promote violence and prevent upward mobility...

(And before anyone gets triggered, I'm not hinting at CRT)

That would be racist and ain't nobody touching that.

 

[Vol8188]

If only there were a line of research inquiry that studied the AA experience historically, economically, politically, spiritually, and promoted discussion to address the negative factors affecting the community that promote violence and prevent upward mobility...

(And before anyone gets triggered, I'm not hinting at CRT)

It’s easier just to say the issue is racism or the issue is poverty than it is to do the type of honest research that would end your career

 

[AshG]

That would be racist and ain't nobody touching that.

I would argue that it isn't racist but essential. How the information is used is where I believe racism can come into the equation.

 

[AshG]

It’s easier just to say the issue is racism or the issue is poverty than it is to do the type of honest research that would end your career

Actually, everything I described already exists.

African American Studies | Open Yale Courses

Courses explore the innovative, complex, and distinctively African American social structures and cultural traditions that Africans in the diaspora have created. Students are exposed to the historical, cultural, political, economic, and social development of people of African descent. Emphasizing a diasporic framework of analysis, the department demands that students acquire both an analytic ability rooted in a traditional discipline and interdisciplinary skills of investigation and research.

 

[hog88]

I would argue that it isn't racist but essential. How the information is used is where I believe racism can come into the equation.

The ones that decide what is racist or not do not want that information so the mere attempt to conduct that research would be decried as racism.

 

[Vol8188]

Actually, everything I described already exists.

African American Studies | Open Yale Courses

Courses explore the innovative, complex, and distinctively African American social structures and cultural traditions that Africans in the diaspora have created. Students are exposed to the historical, cultural, political, economic, and social development of people of African descent. Emphasizing a diasporic framework of analysis, the department demands that students acquire both an analytic ability rooted in a traditional discipline and interdisciplinary skills of investigation and research.

Those courses study CRT. They’re not actually looking at the issues we mentioned in a deep and meaningful way.