Richmond is taking down Confederate statues: Is this the end for other Confederate memorials?

[Weezer]

Remind me when did George Washington led an armed rebellion against the nation he help found in order to preserve the institution of slavery???? Oh wait......he didn’t.

And he didn't have to fight to preserve slavery, he practiced it.

 

[Weezer]

You’ll never get it and you’ll never understand.

That works both ways. When neither side seeks to understand, we all lose. You see anyone who opposes your opinion on this as "racist" rather than trying to understand their opinion, as you want them to understand yours. And before you say you don't care if they agree, then why are you arguing? We all want people to agree with us to some degree.

 

[k-town_king]

Do states have the right to secede? It's a valid question. The southern states felt they did have that right. Hell, there are people in California today that support California seceding. I haven't heard anyone call them traitors.

The South were not terrorists. It was not a terrorist rebellion. No more than the Revolution was a terrorist rebellion against England.

And yes, I can concede they were white supremacists. The majority of white Americans were, including Abraham Lincoln.

It wasn't "American" land. It was their land. Their states. States belong to the people, not the government. The power of the people is the cornerstone of our nation.

And they weren't "torturing citizens". Slavery was abhorrent, but I would think you would know they were not considered "citizens". Not even close.

The truth is, our actual views on slavery and racism are probably extremely similar. But you should read more of actual history than romanticized history. Lincoln, the Great Emancipator himself, thought blacks were an inferior race.

I don't care what Lincoln thought.

The land wasn't theirs. It was also not cut and dry even within states that people wanted to illegally secede. Middle and West TN invaded East TN that was staunchly Pro Union. Terrorists invaded East TN who wanted to stay. We almost voted to become our own state like West Virginia did breaking from Va.

Sure that is just like a small amount of Californians who talk about it and have a few committees to discuss it.

Attacking and killing American troops to secede to continue your genocide while also invading areas that did not want to secede is pretty much what they are doing in Cali. Great comparison . lmao

 

[Weezer]

I don't care what Lincoln thought.

The land wasn't theirs. It was also not cut and dry even within states that people wanted to illegally secede. Middle and West TN invaded East TN that was staunchly Pro Union. Terrorists invaded East TN who wanted to stay. We almost voted to become our own state like West Virginia did breaking from Va.

Sure that is just like a small amount of Californians who talk about it and have a few committees to discuss it.

Attacking and killing American troops to secede to continue your genocide while also invading areas that did not want to secede is pretty much what they are doing in Cali. Great comparison . lmao

So you don't care that Lincoln was a racist, but you do care if anyone else was a racist?

The land was theirs. States do not belong to the federal government. States belong to the people. And I know the history of East TN.

So are those Californians preaching secession traitors?

Arguments abound over who actually fired the first shots. We know the North invaded first. And the South did not practice genocide. They practiced slavery. Genocide and slavery are two very different things.

If you want to make convincing arguments, stay with facts.

 

[Purple Tiger]

Absolutely, people dont understand that the saul alinsky type groups are controlling this. They'll do away with every monument that recognizes the greatness of this once free country.

Can you specifically name the Alinsky groups that are controlling the movement to do away with statues? To be honest, removing statues would have absolutely no appeal to Saul Alinsky. He preferred to take on corrupt landlords and companies that oppressed poor people.

 

[1972 Grad]

Can you specifically name the Alinsky groups that are controlling the movement to do away with statues? To be honest, removing statues would have absolutely no appeal to Saul Alinsky. He preferred to take on corrupt landlords and companies that oppressed poor people.

He was apparently quite the good Samaritan.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

So I guess Marine Corps commandant Gen. David Berger his entire staff, senior NCO’s and division commanders all have a progressive mindset???

If they are letting a statue get to then then yes. Its pretty simple. Stop worrying about a statue and start worrying about more important things. Slavery is long, long gone. Blacks can succeed in this country and many, many, many have. Stop with the victim crap. Stop wth the everything is racist crap. Stop worrying about a Confederate generals statue. Honest question, does that statue really bother you that much? If so, when did it start really getting to you and why?

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Pretty interesting

 

[Jravol78]

The Confederacy believed Blacks were inferior people. They enslaved them and killed them without recourse. Thankfully, the Confederacy lost the war. What if after the war ended, (Confederate) Americans erected monuments in honor of their wartime leaders (Lee, etc.)? How would you feel about those statues if they were still standing today in your American hometown and you were black?

There is no difference.

There is no moral equivalency to claim these statues of rebel leaders are justifiable.

Slavery is a stain on this country to this day, and those who led the fight to *retain* slavery should never have had monuments built in their honor in the first place.

Raze them all.

This is a very complicated and explosive topic, probably more so today than ever . It is also discussion with well defined black and white areas (no pun intended ), there is a great deal of gray area (again no pun intended ).

Washington and Jefferson both owned vast plantations powered by slave labor . Jefferson , in what today would be classified as a sexual assault due to his position of authority over Sally Hemmings , fathered a child with a slave .

Lincoln openly stated that he felt that blacks were an inferior race . He gave serious consideration to establishing a settlement in Liberia in which to send all the freed slaves.

FDR sent countless Japanese men, women & children to “re-settlement camps “ that were not much more than glorified concentration camps .

Washington led men in battle with the clear objective of achieving victory . This objective was met. The establishment of this country did not afford the same rights to blacks and whites . Those who were enslaved remained enslaved . Jefferson was a colonel in the VA militia . Draw your own conclusions on whether or not you believe that members of The Virginia militia in the late 1700’s believed in the abolishment of slavery and the concept that ALL men are created equal.

After WW2 the returning black soldiers who exhibited the same bravery as their white counterparts came home to “business as usual” and continued to be discriminated against in ALL 50 states , not just the southern states operating under Jim Crowe laws .

You emphatically state to “raze them all”. Where do you draw the line though? Men in different times believed & participated in things that were wrong. In light of this what would be your opinion on the Washington monument , Jefferson, Lincoln & Roosevelt memorials ? The WW2 monument? The likenesses on the aforementioned on various forms of currency ? By your statement Washington & Jefferson literally fought to “retain slavery “ your words . Lincoln made openly racist statements . FDR imprisoned Americans for the color of their skin and WW2 allowed this country to become the worlds premiere superpower @ the expense of black lives that came home to continue to be suffer the same harassment and discrimination that their families had suffered for generations .

I know that was a long post but I never seem to see an open and honest discussion on these matters. My simple question to you or anyone else who cares to address our very complicated & controversial history is where do you draw the line ? Once you start removing monuments where do you stop ?

 

[1972 Grad]

delete

 

[Jravol78]

.

 

[1972 Grad]

You take down all monuments that don't meet the woke purity tests of the left.

i mean that certainly appears to be to MO but when these clinched pearled / knee jerked reactions of “tear em all down!” are reached there conveniently is never a discussion of anything other than the most popular cultural and celebrity causes. The flip side is what happens 20 years down the road when somebody once revered becomes controversial and all the sudden their statue needs to be “razed” .

I admire JFK and think that many elements of his leadership would greatly benefit us today. We all know he was no choir boy but so far that aspect has remained separate from his political accomplishments. Let’s say hypothetically that the influence of the #metoomovement continues to grow and they start demanding that all references , monuments , etc... to JFK be removed due to his obvious disregard & disrespect to women. Will those on the left side of the aisle agree in harmony when by some sort of national declaration the JFK library is turned into the worlds largest Walgreens ?[/QUOTE]Something is wrong. Your prior posts are being attributed to me.

 

[Jravol78]

?[/QUOTE]Something is wrong. Your prior posts are being attributed to me.[/QUOTE]i know! Not sure what’s up with that . I will report . It may be some vast conspiracy though

 

[Rickyvol77]

Remind me when did George Washington led an armed rebellion against the nation he help found in order to preserve the institution of slavery???? Oh wait......he didn’t.

So confederate soldiers, 95% whom didn’t own slaves are evil but Founding Fathers who many did have slaves are still good? It’s so hard to keep up with the moving goalposts

 

[Rickyvol77]

This is a very complicated and explosive topic, probably more so today than ever . It is also discussion with well defined black and white areas (no pun intended ), there is a great deal of gray area (again no pun intended ).

Washington and Jefferson both owned vast plantations powered by slave labor . Jefferson , in what today would be classified as a sexual assault due to his position of authority over Sally Hemmings , fathered a child with a slave .

Lincoln openly stated that he felt that blacks were an inferior race . He gave serious consideration to establishing a settlement in Liberia in which to send all the freed slaves.

FDR sent countless Japanese men, women & children to “re-settlement camps “ that were not much more than glorified concentration camps .

Washington led men in battle with the clear objective of achieving victory . This objective was met. The establishment of this country did not afford the same rights to blacks and whites . Those who were enslaved remained enslaved . Jefferson was a colonel in the VA militia . Draw your own conclusions on whether or not you believe that members of The Virginia militia in the late 1700’s believed in the abolishment of slavery and the concept that ALL men are created equal.

After WW2 the returning black soldiers who exhibited the same bravery as their white counterparts came home to “business as usual” and continued to be discriminated against in ALL 50 states , not just the southern states operating under Jim Crowe laws .

You emphatically state to “raze them all”. Where do you draw the line though? Men in different times believed & participated in things that were wrong. In light of this what would be your opinion on the Washington monument , Jefferson, Lincoln & Roosevelt memorials ? The WW2 monument? The likenesses on the aforementioned on various forms of currency ? By your statement Washington & Jefferson literally fought to “retain slavery “ your words . Lincoln made openly racist statements . FDR imprisoned Americans for the color of their skin and WW2 allowed this country to become the worlds premiere superpower @ the expense of black lives that came home to continue to be suffer the same harassment and discrimination that their families had suffered for generations .

I know that was a long post but I never seem to see an open and honest discussion on these matters. My simple question to you or anyone else who cares to address our very complicated & controversial history is where do you draw the line ? Once you start removing monuments where do you stop ?

Exactly

 

[lukeneyland]

The virtue signalling left is only getting started. Soon they'll move to abolish private property. George Floyd is just a tool in these people's game

 

[1972 Grad]

The virtue signalling left is only getting started. Soon they'll move to abolish private property. George Floyd is just a tool in these people's game

Mongo merely pawn.....in game of life.

 

[Tyler Durden]

Protesters pull down Confederate statue in Richmond

 

[Tyler Durden]

Confederate Monuments Are Coming Down, Are Streets And Highways Next?

 

[KB5252]

No survivors made the statues.

We should be "hating" on traitors that killed real American patriots in the name of kidnapping, murder, and torture.

Who did they kidnap?

 

[KB5252]

I'm fine with this or with moving them to some place where they can be seen as historic artifacts rather than celebrating them as a indication of beliefs.

I brought up the Pyramids earlier since no one (well almost no one) would suggest they be torn down because of the horrors of how they were built or the atrocities committed by the Pharohs.

Any ancient monument for that matter.

 

[KB5252]

I don’t disagree but let’s not pretend every tribe was the same and just peaceful people hanging out either. Several were bloodthirsty savages and killed Americans from the beginning

Savages is a lazy and incomplete understanding of their culture. They were savage in battle but much different in regular life.

I'm sure they viewed us as the savages.

 

[KB5252]

Difference is that many other countries acknowledge their shortcomings, whereas here it's "I DON'T CARE DON'T MESS WITH OUR NATIONAL SONG"

Also, no, not every country enslaved an entire race of people.

If we're talking European, African, Middle Eastern or Central American countries/cultures yes they absolutely did. That isn't debatable.

 

[KB5252]

Has Germany really acknowledged their history? Until the late '80's, Germany wasn't even a united country. And even now, talking about Nazi Germany is a bit of a taboo subject in Germany.

Very true, it is not discussed at all. It's the elephant in the room for tourists expecting to be shown so the cool WW2 historical sites.

 

[KB5252]

I had to think through this situation alot to arrive at an opinion which is in the form of an analogy...

Nazi Germany believed Jews were inferior people. They enslaved them and killed them without recourse. Thankfully, Germany lost the war. What if after the war ended, Germans erected monuments in honor of their wartime leaders (Hitler, etc.)? How would you feel about those statues if they were still standing today in your German hometown and you were Jewish?

The Confederacy believed Blacks were inferior people. They enslaved them and killed them without recourse. Thankfully, the Confederacy lost the war. What if after the war ended, (Confederate) Americans erected monuments in honor of their wartime leaders (Lee, etc.)? How would you feel about those statues if they were still standing today in your American hometown and you were black?

There is no difference.

There is no moral equivalency to claim these statues of rebel leaders are justifiable.

Slavery is a stain on this country to this day, and those who led the fight to *retain* slavery should never have had monuments built in their honor in the first place.

Raze them all.

And BTW... you will find exactly zero public monuments of Hitler in Germany.

To be fair the North viewed them every bit as inferior.