Richmond is taking down Confederate statues: Is this the end for other Confederate memorials?

[MontyPython]

The More You Know

SMH. Are you really trying to paint Abraham Lincoln as one who was personally not opposed to slavery? This is an insane narrative. What's next... you gonna argue that Trump didn't really say the whole "grab em by the p*ssy" monologue?

Lincoln's POLITICAL objective was clear: Save the Union at ANY cost.

Lincoln's PERSONAL belief that slavery was wrong was immaterial to the concessions required to achieve his political objectives.

If you have any inkling whatsoever how the world (and politics) work, you'll understand these positions make sense, and that Lincoln was without doubt morally opposed to slavery.

 

[Sandman 423]

SMH. Are you really trying to paint Abraham Lincoln as one who was personally not opposed to slavery? This is an insane narrative. What's next... you gonna argue that Trump didn't really say the whole "grab em by the p*ssy" monologue?

Lincoln's POLITICAL objective was clear: Save the Union at ANY cost.

Lincoln's PERSONAL belief that slavery was wrong was immaterial to the concessions required to achieve his political objectives.

If you have any inkling whatsoever how the world (and politics) work, you'll understand these positions make sense, and that Lincoln was without doubt morally opposed to slavery.

You ask a question of why people make that argument and I showed you why.

Personally, I don't think there should be any monuments of individual people paid for and maintained by the american taxpayer.

 

[FLVOL_79]

Why do you qualify your retort by asking to name an elementary school named after Malcom Shabaaz?

Malcom Shabazz City High School
Educate students in grades 9-12.



Malcolm Shabazz City High School is a four-year public alternative high school in Madison, Wisconsin. The school was named in honor of activist Malcolm X, also known as Malcolm Shabazz. It was founded as Malcolm Shabazz High School in 1971, changing its name after merging with City High School in 1979. Wikipedia


View attachment 285511

What a shocker its one of the worst schools in the entire state.

 

[MontyPython]

You ask a question of why people make that argument and I showed you why you tw*t.

Personally, I don't think there should be any monuments of individual people paid for and maintained by the american taxpayer.

Well, your argument is devoid of reason and common sense. So, yeah, I'm gonna call you out when you criticize accepted history.

 

[hog88]

That... is true at UT, at least.

SMH

Not sure I'm following the anti-Lincoln positions here, but to each their own. Probably because they're based on fancy over reason. No worries. I'll stick with my position - based on widely-accepted written history - that Lincoln was staunchly opposed to slavery.

Lincoln opposed slavery, as in slavery in the confederacy. He didn’t oppose it enough to even try to outlaw slavery in the slave holding states that remained in the union.

 

[Sandman 423]

Well, your argument is devoid of reason and common sense. So, yeah, I'm gonna call you out when you criticize accepted history.

Are you trying to beat me up with stupid?

 

[Tyler Durden]

Community reacts to private school removing confederate statue

 

[AirVol]

I’m surprised no one has mentioned exhuming every black military person that’s buried at Arlington (Lee’s former home) and put them elsewhere.
Be damn a black man be buried on a Confederate’s land.

 

[AirVol]

That... is true at UT, at least.

SMH

Not sure I'm following the anti-Lincoln positions here, but to each their own. Probably because they're based on fancy over reason. No worries. I'll stick with my position - based on widely-accepted written history - that Lincoln was staunchly opposed to slavery.

Lincoln wanted to send the free slaves to South America. Wonder why?

 

[Purple Tiger]

The confederate states were a separate country. Did Japan commit treason in 1941?

That is a terrible analogy and an inane response.

"UNIVERSITY PARK, Pa. -- The U.S. Constitution defines treason as levying war against the government and aiding and abetting its enemies. By that definition, every Confederate soldier in the Civil War -- as well as every political leader --was a traitor, according to William A. Blair, College of the Liberal Arts Research Professor of History at Penn State. Yet no one was executed for treason, and Confederate President Jefferson Davis was not even tried for the crime."

Historian explores how Civil War Northerners reconciled treason with leniency | Penn State University

 

[Purple Tiger]

Put that in your pipe and smoke it Mary Surrat, George Atzerodt, David Herald, and Lewis Powell..

I was speaking about the political and military leadership of the Confederacy. Killing the President is a different beast.

 

[hog88]

That is a terrible analogy and an inane response.

"UNIVERSITY PARK, Pa. -- The U.S. Constitution defines treason as levying war against the government and aiding and abetting its enemies. By that definition, every Confederate soldier in the Civil War -- as well as every political leader --was a traitor, according to William A. Blair, College of the Liberal Arts Research Professor of History at Penn State. Yet no one was executed for treason, and Confederate President Jefferson Davis was not even tried for the crime."

Historian explores how Civil War Northerners reconciled treason with leniency | Penn State University

The confederate states were an independent nation that was invaded by an aggressor. So they were not traitors.

 

[Purple Tiger]

The confederate states were an independent nation that was invaded by an aggressor. So they were not traitors.

No historian or legal expert would agree with you. The Confederate States rebelled against the Union and then fought a war against it. Lincoln wanted to try and execute Jefferson Davis and Lee for treason.

 

[GoBigOrangeUT]

No historian or legal expert would agree with you. The Confederate States rebelled against the Union and then fought a war against it. Lincoln wanted to try and execute Jefferson Davis and Lee for treason.

I’m also pretty sure that if the US had lost the Revolutionary War, the Brits would have tried each and every person who participated with treason. But we won. The confederates, by losing, committed treason.

 

[McDad]

I’m also pretty sure that if the US had lost the Revolutionary War, the Brits would have tried each and every person who participated with treason. But we won. The confederates, by losing, committed treason.

That's an interesting take. Never considered it before. Thanks.

 

[hog88]

No historian or legal expert would agree with you. The Confederate States rebelled against the Union and then fought a war against it. Lincoln wanted to try and execute Jefferson Davis and Lee for treason.

The confederate states peacefully seceded from the union. The first shot wasn't fired until the union refused to leave.

A rebellion is an attempt to overthrow a government, the confederacy never attempted to overthrow the US government and if left alone would have never went to war.

 

[hog88]

I’m also pretty sure that if the US had lost the Revolutionary War, the Brits would have tried each and every person who participated with treason. But we won. The confederates, by losing, committed treason.

The victor does write the history, not always correctly but history is a spoil of war.

 

[McDad]

The confederate states peacefully seceded from the union. The first shot wasn't fired until the union refused to leave.

A rebellion is an attempt to overthrow a government, the confederacy never attempted to overthrow the US government and if left alone would have never went to war.

Even though the right to secession isnt in our Constitution, it's your belief states voluntarily joined the union at our founding and therefore can voluntarily leave?

 

[hog88]

Even though the right to secession isnt in our Constitution, it's your belief states voluntarily joined the union at our founding and therefore can voluntarily leave?

Correct. If something voluntarily joined cannot be left is it a "union" or a hostage situation?

 

[McDad]

Correct. If something voluntarily joined cannot be left is it a "union" or a hostage situation?

I got married voluntarily but sometimes feel like a hostage. Maybe Lady Liberty feels the same as McRib?

 

[hog88]

I got married voluntarily but sometimes feel like a hostage. Maybe Lady Liberty feels the same as McRib?

My wife would go to war to keep me in the union too.

 

[Paper_Towel]

I figured since the poster's name was Mounting Python, that he would be into snakes.

 

[Rickyvol77]

That is a terrible analogy and an inane response.

"UNIVERSITY PARK, Pa. -- The U.S. Constitution defines treason as levying war against the government and aiding and abetting its enemies. By that definition, every Confederate soldier in the Civil War -- as well as every political leader --was a traitor, according to William A. Blair, College of the Liberal Arts Research Professor of History at Penn State. Yet no one was executed for treason, and Confederate President Jefferson Davis was not even tried for the crime."

Historian explores how Civil War Northerners reconciled treason with leniency | Penn State University

So the Native Americans obviously DID commit treason against the US, as some leftists in this thread have tried to defend.

 

[Rickyvol77]

The confederate states peacefully seceded from the union. The first shot wasn't fired until the union refused to leave.

A rebellion is an attempt to overthrow a government, the confederacy never attempted to overthrow the US government and if left alone would have never went to war.

I am curious what would've happened if the Confederacy seceded but left the forts alone as sort of "diplomatic land";

 

[hog88]

I am curious what would've happened if the Confederacy seceded but left the forts alone as sort of "diplomatic land";

Lincoln would have found another reason to invade.