Richmond is taking down Confederate statues: Is this the end for other Confederate memorials?

[KB5252]

They seemed to create a huge fuss of black people not being equal for it not being the sole reason, and they added language protecting slavery in their constitution.

Alexander Stephens (CSA VP): “Our new government’s foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man.”

If the statement is that the civil war was only fought because of slavery my response remains that isn't true. Without those tariffs and the pushback the south gave, the events that led up to the war don't happen. In fact the stance against slavery from the north was as much a tool of leverage as much as it was a true moral awakening. The North's leadership, especially Lincoln's own thoughts on the matter of slavery prove as much.

 

[lukeneyland]

They seemed to create a huge fuss of black people not being equal for it not being the sole reason, and they added language protecting slavery in their constitution.

Alexander Stephens (CSA VP): “Our new government’s foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man.”

I wouldn't say that Stephens had much in common with the most of the men that fought aside from maybe an accent.

 

[lukeneyland]

If the statement is that the civil war was only fought because of slavery my response remains that isn't true. Without those tariffs and the pushback the south gave, the events that led up the war don't happen. In fact the stance against slavery from the north was as much a tool of leverage as much as it was a true moral awakening. The North's leadership, especially Lincoln's own thoughts on the matter of slavery prove as much.

And the fact that the majority of the people that were killed and mutilated for the south were far too poor to even consider owning a slave. Slavery was undeniably a motivation for the wealthy but they aren't representative of the entire Confederacy

 

[USMC-TNVOL]

And the fact that the majority of the people that were killed and mutilated for the south were far too poor to even consider owning a slave. Slavery was undeniably a motivation for the wealthy but they aren't representative of the entire Confederacy

The Reasons for Secession

Every state’s secession statement included slavery and the defense of it. Also, they included the fugitive slave act not being enforced and abolitionism. So you could say states rights to keep slaves, which would was a big part of their economy.

https://www.history.com/news/5-myths-about-slavery

3. Myth #3: Only a small percentage of Southerners owned slaves.
Closely related to Myth #2, the idea that the vast majority of Confederate soldiers were men of modest means rather than large plantation owners is usually used to reinforce the contention that the South wouldn’t have gone to war to protect slavery. The 1860 census shows that in the states that would soon secede from the Union, an average of more than 32 percent of white families owned slaves. Some states had far more slave owners (46 percent of families in South Carolina, 49 percent in Mississippi) while some had far less (20 percent of families in Arkansas).

 

[midnight orange]

I wouldn't say that Stephens had much in common with the most of the men that fought aside from maybe an accent.

Exactly. The confederacy had the poor fighting for their ruling oligarchy as did the Union.

 

[midnight orange]

The Reasons for Secession

Every state’s secession statement included slavery and the defense of it. Also, they included the fugitive slave act not being enforced and abolitionism. So you could say states rights to keep slaves, which would was a big part of their economy.

https://www.history.com/news/5-myths-about-slavery

3. Myth #3: Only a small percentage of Southerners owned slaves.
Closely related to Myth #2, the idea that the vast majority of Confederate soldiers were men of modest means rather than large plantation owners is usually used to reinforce the contention that the South wouldn’t have gone to war to protect slavery. The 1860 census shows that in the states that would soon secede from the Union, an average of more than 32 percent of white families owned slaves. Some states had far more slave owners (46 percent of families in South Carolina, 49 percent in Mississippi) while some had far less (20 percent of families in Arkansas).

I think it’s crazy to say the south would have seceded without slavery, just as I think it’s equally crazy to say the Union went to war to free the slaves.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Tear down the Confederate statues? In other words, get rid of the Democrat History evidence?

 

[USMC-TNVOL]

I think it’s crazy to say the south would have seceded without slavery, just as I think it’s equally crazy to say the Union went to war to free the slaves.

Right. Something Lincoln and the Union originally didn’t focus on. It was more to keep the Union together even though he didn’t like slavery. It’s listed as one of the myths on the history link.

 

[lukeneyland]

Exactly. The confederacy had the poor fighting for their ruling oligarchy as did the Union.

As does just about any country in any conflict ever

 

[Velo Vol]

Really makes you think.

 

[carlos86]

He should go read a book by Shelby Foote, Edwin C. Bearss, James "Bud" Robertson among others.

Please stop reading Shelby Foote. He’s not a civil war historian. Ken Burns’ Civil War is a great documentary, but it’s done more to perpetuate the Lost Cause myth anything else. Foote doesn’t tell you that J.E.B. Stuart’s Calvary were MIA on The days leading up to Gettysburg because he was out trying get his name in the papers and chasing tail.

 

[DynaLo]

It's still handwriting, though.

True, and so much is dependent upon the penmanship of the census taker.

 

[midnight orange]

Right. Something Lincoln and the Union originally didn’t focus on. It was more to keep the Union together even though he didn’t like slavery. It’s listed as one of the myths on the history link.

I’m not sure if Lincoln just wasn’t indifferent to slavery. I don’t think he cared one way or the other. He had horrible things to say about black people and generally spoke out of both sides of his mouth. He was against “popular sovereignty” because it was a power play, not because he was some humanitarian offended by the institution of slavery. Neocons have successfully deified a man whom whose contemporaries found morally lacking at best and dangerous at worst.

 

[Franklin Pierce]

SEATTLE, WA - JUNE 10: A volunteer works security at an entrance to the so-called "Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone" on June 10, 2020 in Seattle, Washington. The zone includes the blocks surrounding the Seattle Police Departments East Precinct, which was the site of violent clashes with Black Lives Matter protesters, who have continued to demonstrate in the wake of George Floyds death. (Photo by David Ryder/Getty Images)

The statue of Communist Revolutionary Vladimir Lenin Still Stands in Seattle as heavily armed Communist Revolutionaires now control several blocks in the city.

 

[DynaLo]

Let's have a show of hands of people posting here today that had ancestors that owned slaves.
Mine were poor Irish and just wanted to have food to eat.

mine did in Virginia, N. Carolina and Tennessee. Besides it being a long deceased ancestor, it has not shite to do with me, my parents, grandparents or great-grandparents. Nobody in those 4 generations owned slaves. I have zero guilt about what they did 5+ generations ago in their era of time. I don’t make morality declarations or sit in judgement of them, I can’t, I didn’t live in their world. That doesn’t mean I agree with it either, because I definitely don’t agree, but nothing I do today is going to change that actual history.

Out of sight may make something out of mind but you can’t ever change the facts of what occurred.

 

[DynaLo]

Not part of the United States, right? Ancestors of the Confederacy are more like anchor babies. I'm going to have to see your green card.

Whew...well if that’s the case then I’m covered by my Mom’s Naturalization as a US Citizen

 

[DynaLo]

They seemed to create a huge fuss of black people not being equal for it not being the sole reason, and they added language protecting slavery in their constitution.

Alexander Stephens (CSA VP): “Our new government’s foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man.”

Hmmm.. where have I read those exact sentiments stated before?

Oh, I remember now. In multiple speeches by Abe Lincoln.

 

[K-town Vol Fan]

Out of sight may make something out of mind but you can’t ever change the facts of what occurred.

That's true but why memorialize such negative things? Does Germany have statues of Hitler? No, but I'm pretty sure people arent forgetting him - ever.

That's the thing I dont get about the "Heritage not hate" argument. White heritage IS hate. Native Americans were first and once we took all their land/killed them the black people were next.

 

[Franklin Pierce]

Happy Birthday CONFEDERATE Major General James Lawson Kemper
Born June 11, 1823
37th Governor of Virginia

 

[USMC-TNVOL]

Hmmm.. where have I read those exact sentiments stated before?

Oh, I remember now. In multiple speeches by Abe Lincoln.

Yes, but he eventually changed his attitudes on slavery once he met people like Frederick Douglas. If he didn’t care about slavery, I doubt Frederick Douglas would speak so warmly about him.

 

[DynaLo]

It’s not like any Germans could have put up statues of him even if they had wanted to. Denazification was immediately put into practice by the Allied Forces and the Potsdam Agreement was signed in 1945.

Add in the German Democratic Republic, being the Eastern bloc communists, and the fact that Stalin was essentially in charge and statues weren’t happening there either.

So we really have no idea if any Germans would have put up Hitler statues as they were prohibited from doing so.

 

[C-south]

That's true but why memorialize such negative things? Does Germany have statues of Hitler? No, but I'm pretty sure people arent forgetting him - ever.

That's the thing I dont get about the "Heritage not hate" argument. White heritage IS hate. Native Americans were first and once we took all their land/killed them the black people were next.

Thanks for sharing your black heritage hate.

 

[midnight orange]

Yes, but he eventually changed his attitudes on slavery once he met people like Frederick Douglas. If he didn’t care about slavery, I doubt Frederick Douglas would speak so warmly about him.

He changed his attitude all the time, depending on the audience.

 

[USMC-TNVOL]

He changed his attitude all the time, depending on the audience.

Is there anything to support that? One thing I found was before he was president.

 

[DynaLo]

Anyone think the pen comes out and we get an EO stating that military bases are federal properties and as such, only the federal government can rename them?

If he does it, at the same time I’d want to see an EO invoking the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution and upholding federal constitutional carry. Let SCOTUS have fun with that one.