Richmond is taking down Confederate statues: Is this the end for other Confederate memorials?

[KB5252]

If taking down racist/slaveowner statues makes you concerned for ALL statues, that should tell you something about who we’ve chosen to honor

I see someone hasn't been paying attention.

 

[Weezer]

“Time and place”, “work within the system” blah blah

I don't think MLK would support the violence that has erupted in the wake of George Floyd. I don't think he would support the killing of innocents, or the burning of businesses. That was not his way.

 

[Weezer]

She broke the law and got arrested. That’s not “within the system” and never will be

She didn't kick and scream and resist arrest. I consider peaceful protest within the system. Maybe you do not. I'm all for marches, or bringing attention to injustice through nonviolent means. I'm not about the erupting chaos that has left people dead. I'm not about mob rule. I want change, but not at the expense of one's soul.

 

[NashVol11]

I don't think MLK would support the violence that has erupted in the wake of George Floyd. I don't think he would support the killing of innocents, or the burning of businesses. That was not his way.

Think again

I need not remind you that poverty, the gaps in our society, the gulfs between inordinate superfluous wealth and abject deadening poverty have brought about a great deal of despair, a great deal of tension, a great deal of bitterness. We’ve seen this bitterness expressed over the last few summers in the violent explosions in our cities.

And the great tragedy is that the nation continues in its national policy to ignore the conditions that brought the riots or the rebellions into being. For in the final analysis, the riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it that America’s failed to hear? It’s failed to hear that the plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years. It has failed to hear that the promises of justice and freedom have not been met. It has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice, humanity, and equality, and it is still true. It is still true that these things are being ignored.

“Urban riots must now be recognized as durable social phenomena,” he told the assembled crowd of mostly white doctors and academics. “They may be deplored, but they are there and should be understood. Urban riots are a special form of violence. They are not insurrections. The rioters are not seeking to seize territory or to attain control of institutions. They are mainly intended to shock the white community. They are a distorted form of social protest. The looting which is their principal feature serves many functions. It enables the most enraged and deprived Negro to take hold of consumer goods with the ease the white man does by using his purse. Often the Negro does not even want what he takes; he wants the experience of taking.”

By the end of his life, Martin Luther King realized the validity of violence

 

[KB5252]

She broke the law and got arrested. That’s not “within the system” and never will be

But it is, she refused to give up her seat knowing the consequences and accepted them to bring attention to her cause.

 

[Weezer]

Think again





By the end of his life, Martin Luther King realized the validity of violence

Then I disagree with him on that. I believe in justice and equality for all. Killing innocent people is not the way to make change. Looting and unfettered chaos is not the way to win support. I agree that too many white people are complacent, and don't do enough. I 100% agree with MLK on that. But there has to be a better way. Where are the true message carriers? Where are the leaders of the movement? There is so much more to strive for that goes unnoticed to satisfy primal urges. We are meant to be better than this. We are meant to rise above violence and hate.

 

[RollinVol]

How will we remember our history???

You must have forgotten that parts of those walls are here in the US, right?

 

[DynaLo]

Put up an abolitionist instead of a Confederate and no one except Confederate flag wavers would be offended

Ummmmm...yea, ok, about that....this is a current example.... they already went after a abolitionist statue in Philly as well

 

[Purple Tiger]

I don't think MLK would support the violence that has erupted in the wake of George Floyd. I don't think he would support the killing of innocents, or the burning of businesses. That was not his way.

No $hit, Sherlock. Had he lived, Malcolm X would have advocated violence. By the time King was assassinated, peaceful protest was losing ground to those who believed in violent protest.

 

[vol445]

No $hit, Sherlock. Had he lived, Malcolm X would have advocated violence. By the time King was assassinated, peaceful protest was losing ground to those who believed in violent protest.

Curious why you say peaceful protest were losing ground and what stopped them violent protest?

 

[Weezer]

No $hit, Sherlock. Had he lived, Malcolm X would have advocated violence. By the time King was assassinated, peaceful protest was losing ground to those who believed in violent protest.

Malcolm X started to change his views after his pilgrimage to Mecca. Maybe he would have supported violence, maybe not. But he was killed by the very group he was once part of, so what did the violence ultimately get him, Sherlock?

 

[Purple Tiger]

Curious why you say peaceful protest were losing ground and what stopped them violent protest?

I had the great fortune to take a class on American Religious History from an AA scholar who had worked for SCLC and knew King well. He said that black people were tired of waiting on society to change under non-violent protest and wanted to be taken more seriously. There was a shift in the Black Power (SNCC) movement towards violent protest, which we saw break out after MLK's assasination.

I found a good article on King's thoughts on violence shortly before his death.
https://www.history.com/news/for-martin-luther-king-jr-nonviolent-protest-never-meant-wait-and-see

 

[Rickyvol77]

No $hit, Sherlock. Had he lived, Malcolm X would have advocated violence. By the time King was assassinated, peaceful protest was losing ground to those who believed in violent protest.

actually Malcolm X in his later years, stated that his call for violence in the name of Islam and Black Militancy was wrong, and that Islam was a terrible cult. He was not the same person at his death as he was during his misguided years

 

[Purple Tiger]

actually Malcolm X in his later years, stated that his call for violence in the name of Islam and Black Militancy was wrong, and that Islam was a terrible cult. He was not the same person at his death as he was during his misguided years

He said Black Islam was a terrible cult, not Islam. Big difference there.

 

[MemphisVol77]

How will we remember our history???

I'm gonna spray paint shards of concrete and sell it to liberals on e-bay with commemorative plaques of authenticity to celebrate statues coming down.

They used the home shopping channel in the 90's after the Berlin Wall came down.

 

[DynaLo]

I'm gonna spray paint shards of concrete and sell it to liberals on e-bay with commemorative plaques of authenticity to celebrate statues coming down.

They used the home shopping channel in the 90's after the Berlin Wall came down.

Bloody freaking brilliant, because it will sell. Just make sure you check out each toppled statue photo for visible proof of actual shards being present there and spray paint the concrete to match the original before sledgehammering it

 

[Mick]

I'm gonna spray paint shards of concrete and sell it to liberals on e-bay with commemorative plaques of authenticity to celebrate statues coming down.

They used the home shopping channel in the 90's after the Berlin Wall came down.

I guess you feel like you have a good idea but it's only the Republicans that need such things to commemorate their loses.

 

[LouderVol]

Awesome dude. Tell me the correct answer then.

Again, here's the question:

We've actually been having an ongoing debate at work for like the past 6 months (pre-CV19) about whether one can separate the product/services of a person and their beliefs/actions. Example: HP Lovecraft. One dude at work thinks his art is the bomb, and has collected prints and books about the guy for years. Now he's come to understand that the man was a unrepentant white supremacist. Can we separate and accept his art (great) for what it is, despite the fact that the man was fundamentally flawed (racist)? Where do you draw the line on this sort of thing? Say you had a beautiful original painting by Hitler. Do you burn it as a statement against everything the man stood for, or do you hide the fact that it was by him, or do you openly just accept the art for what it is - regardless of the artist?

Most people with rational thinking should be able to process the complex idea of a work of art being different or even separate than the worst of the authors past.

Especially after they are dead. And especially if the work doesn't represent the racism.

 

[tntar heel]

Looks like Andrew Jackson is going to be gone in Lafayette Square.

Edit: Looks like Andy was is gonna was issued a reprieve when Capitol police showed up.

 

[CagleMtnVol]

Looks like Andrew Jackson is going to be gone in Lafayette Square.

The Battle of New Orleans erased from existence......

 

[NashVol11]

The Battle of New Orleans erased from existence......

The what?

 

[MemphisVol77]

The what?

War 1812.......

 

[Pepe_Silvia]

The what?

Oh lort

 

[Franklin Pierce]

Communist Emblem Spray Painted On North Carolina WWII Memorial

A communist symbol was reportedly spray-painted on a World War II memorial in Charlotte, North Carolina, over the weekend.

A hammer and sickle was emblazoned across the stone monument in red and yellow, as well as the words “Glory to the day of heroism June 19, 1986,” according to Fox News. Both are references to communist ideology.

The 1986 date refers to communist rebels who overthrew three different Peru prisons. The leftist revolutionaries constructed bombs and murdered police officers, according to a 1986 New York Times report.

Communist Emblem Spray Painted On North Carolina WWII Memorial

 

[Orangeburst]

actually Malcolm X in his later years, stated that his call for violence in the name of Islam and Black Militancy was wrong, and that Islam was a terrible cult. He was not the same person at his death as he was during his misguided years

If we resorted to violence for every grievance, we would be in perpetual violence.