Richmond is taking down Confederate statues: Is this the end for other Confederate memorials?

[CagleMtnVol]

Pathetic..the people that want this will be ruled by fists of iron. So dystopian.

It further proves Trump was right. He said where will it end first it's Robert E. Lee is Thomas Jefferson and George Washington next?

School districts across the country have had discussions on removing the names of those mentioned above as well as Lincoln.

Then there is this...

 

[Orangeburst]

It further proves Trump was right. He said where will it end first it's Robert E. Lee is Thomas Jefferson and George Washington next?

School districts across the country have had discussions on removing the names of those mentioned above as well as Lincoln.

Then there is this...

I just can't see but such a super small minority agree with these decisions, yet they get away with it. I don't understand.

 

[VFFL@THE BEACH]

I get it now. You are a might makes right person, it’s the right of any powerful nation to invade the less powerful.

The articles of confederation didn’t fail, we won our independence under the articles of confederation.

This statement is like the character Willie Mayes Hayes, from the movie major league. The scene when he slides into second too early and didn't hit the bag.

 

[VFFL@THE BEACH]

I think 'hate' is an overused term that's used as a dismissive. It's an odd term for the secession states' disposition given that they'd stayed with 'America' for the better part of a century despite irreconcilable differences. It starts getting fuzzy when one considers America's flag flew protectively over the ships of the transAtlantic slave trade, and the Constitution used as property rights protection for the trade and ownership of the trafficked. So, does our Constitution and flag 'hate' liberty and by extension the core principle of our founding?

There's a saying in the South; "we'll stop fighting when ya'll stop shooting". I see no sense in sanitizing, nor making invisible or destroying that history so that falsehood can displace it. The AMERICAN descendants of those people wish to honor them no less than AMERICAN soldiers of any other era. By making it acceptable to remove these historical testaments, it has morphed into what I predicted, an open season on vilifying and removing EVERY white, historical figure.

The Constitution is probably as perfect a document that can be crafted by imperfect beings, a form of government devised that even its contemporary framers could not yet live by, but that lit the path we'd come to walk. If we continue to cede the conversations of society to the authoritarian factions that coerce speech, thought, and conduct, the death of the constitutional republic is assured.

You bring up some interesting points and seem like a relatively intelligent person. However, capitalizing words for emphasis actually takes away from your point. Capitalizing words is like yelling and most people that yell don't have anything to say.

The Constitution and flag at inanimate objects and unable to feel, but we will get back to this. The Confederacy was made up of humans that have feelings and made a choice to leave the Union. In fact, we can see in their actions and words that "hate" is an accurate word to describe their feelings. "I'm A Good Ol' Rebel" song and poem actually has a whole stanza and other lines that begin with "I hates". I get it, I too can get caught up in the romanticism of the Civil War. However, its core, is simply people that did not want to be part of America and were willing to risk their life to fight against the U.S. and lost. Had they won then things would be different.

This whole descendants argument is a little twisted. So if American descendants of Hitler, Mussolini or Osama Bin Laden want a statute then that's okay? The only authoritarian factions here was the southern governments after the civil war. They used authoritarian government to erect statues to the enemy of the U.S. We should not be having this conversation because the statues should not have been erected in the first place.

How much Civil War history or any history have you learned from a statue?

I could not agree any more with this statement. The Constitution is probably as perfect a document that can be crafted by imperfect beings, a form of government devised that even its contemporary framers could not yet live by, but that lit the path we'd come to walk. Keep following the lit path of the Constitution.

 

[Carl Pickens]

I just can't see but such a super small minority agree with these decisions, yet they get away with it. I don't understand.

It’s called pussification…. Real men are dying off and being replaced with little snot nosed bitches that can’t even drive a stick shift

 

[NCFisher]

You bring up some interesting points and seem like a relatively intelligent person. However, capitalizing words for emphasis actually takes away from your point. Capitalizing words is like yelling and most people that yell don't have anything to say.

The Constitution and flag at inanimate objects and unable to feel, but we will get back to this. The Confederacy was made up of humans that have feelings and made a choice to leave the Union. In fact, we can see in their actions and words that "hate" is an accurate word to describe their feelings. "I'm A Good Ol' Rebel" song and poem actually has a whole stanza and other lines that begin with "I hates". I get it, I too can get caught up in the romanticism of the Civil War. However, its core, is simply people that did not want to be part of America and were willing to risk their life to fight against the U.S. and lost. Had they won then things would be different.

This whole descendants argument is a little twisted. So if American descendants of Hitler, Mussolini or Osama Bin Laden want a statute then that's okay? The only authoritarian factions here was the southern governments after the civil war. They used authoritarian government to erect statues to the enemy of the U.S. We should not be having this conversation because the statues should not have been erected in the first place.

How much Civil War history or any history have you learned from a statue?

I could not agree any more with this statement. The Constitution is probably as perfect a document that can be crafted by imperfect beings, a form of government devised that even its contemporary framers could not yet live by, but that lit the path we'd come to walk. Keep following the lit path of the Constitution.

It's not yelling but drawing emphasis to head off the argument that I (correctly) thought was coming, making allusions to Nazi monuments, etc. There were no fascist states - Euro or Islamist - on AMERICAN soil; why would there be monuments to them? OTOH, there were eleven states who tried to peacefully leave a union they no longer wished to be part of. I think they "hated" being in that position and subsequently hated being invaded. So yes, once the war was on, I'm sure they hated the Union government. That 'I'm A Good Ol' Rebel' was penned in the 1860s supports that.

I disagree; Lincoln acted as an authoritarian. If eleven states are not to determine their own governance, when are any people anywhere to do so? It is the very principle that fueled the Declaration, and then founded a government constitutionally checked by a 2nd Amendment fail-safe. It's not historical romance from my perspective; one either stands for the proposition in practicality, or really doesn't at all. And stripped down to that essential element, the secession states certainly had the right to leave and other arguments are superfluous avoidance of that fact.

You don't wage scorched earth warfare to subjugate those states, then expect sudden buy-in to North/South brotherhood. As Lee framed it:
"A Union that can only be maintained by swords and bayonets has no charm for me. If the Union is dissolved and government disrupted, I shall return to my native state and share the miseries of my people, and save in defense will draw my sword on none."

I learn from a CW marker as much as I learn from any historical marker; they're jumping off points for further looking into things which pique your interest, not a treatise.

 

[AM64]

It's not yelling but drawing emphasis to head off the argument that I (correctly) thought was coming, making allusions to Nazi monuments, etc. There were no fascist states - Euro or Islamist - on AMERICAN soil; why would there be monuments to them? OTOH, there were eleven states who tried to peacefully leave a union they no longer wished to be part of. I think they "hated" being in that position and subsequently hated being invaded. So yes, once the war was on, I'm sure they hated the Union government. That 'I'm A Good Ol' Rebel' was penned in the 1860s supports that.

I disagree; Lincoln acted as an authoritarian. If eleven states are not to determine their own governance, when are any people anywhere to do so? It is the very principle that fueled the Declaration, and then founded a government constitutionally checked by a 2nd Amendment fail-safe. It's not historical romance from my perspective; one either stands for the proposition in practicality, or really doesn't at all. And stripped down to that essential element, the secession states certainly had the right to leave and other arguments are superfluous avoidance of that fact.

You don't wage scorched earth warfare to subjugate those states, then expect sudden buy-in to North/South brotherhood. As Lee framed it:
"A Union that can only be maintained by swords and bayonets has no charm for me. If the Union is dissolved and government disrupted, I shall return to my native state and share the miseries of my people, and save in defense will draw my sword on none."

I learn from a CW marker as much as I learn from any historical marker; they're jumping off points for further looking into things which pique your interest, not a treatise.

I still love this Lincoln quote ... from before he became president naturally

Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world.

You have to suppose that Washington and the other founding fathers would have been considered traitors rather than heroes and leaders if the Revolution had failed to form a new country. History generally determines traitors and patriots by their W/L record.

 

[VFFL@THE BEACH]

I still love this Lincoln quote ... from before he became president naturally



You have to suppose that Washington and the other founding fathers would have been considered traitors rather than heroes and leaders if the Revolution had failed to form a new country. History generally determines traitors and patriots by their W/L record.

Lincoln made the quote before dealing with the burden of leadership.

Yes, to the victors goes the spoils. The British teach the American Revolution as a rebellion. Which I feel is arrogant but it is the British. Had the Confederacy won the war then things would be different.

 

[Velo Vol]

Twenty years of history erased.

 

[hog88]

^^It was an eyesore.

 

[AshG]

Twenty years of history erased.

I'm sad to see that piece of history go. Now we have to find another example of why you shouldn't cast action shots of historical figures while drunk. Thing looked like a mutant.

 

[NCFisher]

I still love this Lincoln quote ... from before he became president naturally



You have to suppose that Washington and the other founding fathers would have been considered traitors rather than heroes and leaders if the Revolution had failed to form a new country. History generally determines traitors and patriots by their W/L record.

No question, the founders were absolutely traitors.
Their example shows the term carries unnecessary stigma.

 

[luthervol]

Twenty years of history erased.

That may have been the ugliest statue I have ever seen. I'm going to miss laughing at it as I drive by on my visits to Nashville.

 

[1vol8]

Well, if we don’t need the statues of our history because of what they represented in life, then the same should hold true with the George Floyd statue too right? When we hookin up?!

 

[CagleMtnVol]

I'm shaking with anger right now I can barely type this! This wrong it should be put on one of the battle fields. It's a beautiful peace of art and craftsmanship.

 

[1vol8]

I'm shaking with anger right now I can barely type this! This wrong it should be put on one of the battle fields. It's a beautiful peace of art and craftsmanship.

I’m with you. Every time I see any comment or action taken against the statues it infuriates me. Who cares what they represented in their lives? The statues don’t stand as a reminder of that. They stand as a reminder of their stamp on our history and how we came to be today. If they need to come down because of a bunch of bit***s getting their feelings hurt over something they can’t let go, then that POS George Floyd statue needs to come down too.

 

[AshG]

I’m with you. Every time I see any comment or action taken against the statues it infuriates me. Who cares what they represented in their lives? The statues don’t stand as a reminder of that. They stand as a reminder of their stamp on our history and how we came to be today. If they need to come down because of a bunch of bit***s getting their feelings hurt over something they can’t let go, then that POS George Floyd statue needs to come down too.

Knowing when and why the statues were erected makes me more understanding of why they're being moved, but I agree that this is a step too far. Museums and battlefields would be a great place to house them and continue the discussion. Melting them down just seems a waste.

Except for the NBF statue from Nashville. That is thing was a lesson in how not to make statues

 

[1vol8]

Knowing when and why the statues were erected makes me more understanding of why they're being moved, but I agree that this is a step too far. Museums and battlefields would be a great place to house them and continue the discussion. Melting them down just seems a waste.

Except for the NBF statue from Nashville. That is thing was a lesson in how not to make statues

I don’t get it and here’s why.
No matter how dark our past we evolved. No matter how we view “the man”, their place in history is legit. We can’t hold them accountable to our standards of today when that’s the way it was back then. If you want to look at the statues and think of “the man”? Cool. But consider the time he lived in. If you want to look at them and think of the stamp on history (what they were intended for)? Cool. It needs to be a page in history books. What they are doing is setting up for complete removal. Your kids kids will never know of any of them. So they’ll never know how it came to be. Every part of history is a stepping stone and they’re trying (succeeding) in removing the nations foundation. No matter what you’re trying to build, it falls without a foundation and I see the fact that future kids will know nothing of R.E. Lee and everything of George Floyd to be a problem. This country is not racist right now. But in 50 years, headed in the same direction, it will be.

 

[Pepe_Silvia]

I'm shaking with anger right now I can barely type this! This wrong it should be put on one of the battle fields. It's a beautiful peace of art and craftsmanship.

 

[AshG]

I don’t get it and here’s why.
No matter how dark our past we evolved. No matter how we view “the man”, their place in history is legit. We can’t hold them accountable to our standards of today when that’s the way it was back then. If you want to look at the statues and think of “the man”? Cool. But consider the time he lived in. If you want to look at them and think of the stamp on history (what they were intended for)? Cool. It needs to be a page in history books. What they are doing is setting up for complete removal. Your kids kids will never know of any of them. So they’ll never know how it came to be. Every part of history is a stepping stone and they’re trying (succeeding) in removing the nations foundation. No matter what you’re trying to build, it falls without a foundation and I see the fact that future kids will know nothing of R.E. Lee and everything of George Floyd to be a problem. This country is not racist right now. But in 50 years, headed in the same direction, it will be.

So because statues put up in the 1920s to signal that blacks weren't welcome in the town square are being removed, our next generation won't know about them at all.

History isn't the picture from Back to the Future where Marty McConfederate fades out of existence for all time.

 

[1vol8]

So because statues put up in the 1920s to signal that blacks weren't welcome in the town square are being removed, our next generation won't know about them at all.

History isn't the picture from Back to the Future where Marty McConfederate fades out of existence for all time.

It doesn’t matter why they were put up. If you’re so shallow that you can’t look around you and see how far we’ve come since then, you deserve to live a life of unreasonable stress because if it’s not the statues, it’ll be something else. Don’t you get it by now? The left is LOOKING for reasons to claim racism.

 

[AshG]

It doesn’t matter why they were put up. If you’re so shallow that you can’t look around you and see how far we’ve come since then, you deserve to live a life of unreasonable stress because if it’s not the statues, it’ll be something else. Don’t you get it by now? The left is LOOKING for reasons to claim racism.

I understand quite well, thank you. I find the oversensitivity and unwavering adherence I'm both the removal and veneration campus to make me facepalm.

 

[Electric Orange]

Couldn't someone who owns land in a good spot put up any statue they want?

 

[1vol8]

I understand quite well, thank you. I find the oversensitivity and unwavering adherence I'm both the removal and veneration campus to make me facepalm.

All I’m saying is the left are acting like children while pushing to see how far they can go. Until we draw a line, this will never stop. And every time they claim victory over such things so ridiculous, it only makes that line that much higher. I made this comment in a previous post and I’ll say it again. The Statue of Liberty may be on borrowed time because she’s a white woman holding a torch. That’s gotta be racist according to the narrative they’re pushing today.

 

[AshG]

All I’m saying is the left are acting like children while pushing to see how far they can go. Until we draw a line, this will never stop. And every time they claim victory over such things so ridiculous, it only makes that line that much higher. I made this comment in a previous post and I’ll say it again. The Statue of Liberty may be on borrowed time because she’s a white woman holding a torch. That’s gotta be racist according to the narrative they’re pushing today.

Actually, the model for Lady Liberty was an Arab Muslim. Might help her to stick around a little longer. Not that she's going anywhere, anyway.