Rick Barnes discussion [merged]

[SGMVols]

Not once have I ever mentioned “ firing” CRB. Just like Bison said, I think he is a good coach, maybe one of the top 2-3 we have ever had. At the same time, we have never had the 4 th highest paid coach in the country until CRB So I just expect superior results. So far he has underperformed, that’s all.

We paid Pearl a pretty good amount of money to lose 15 games with a player who now starts on a team that could make the NBA finals this year.

 

[SGMVols]

Another blowout. Barnes needs to get it together next year or he needs to be fired.

That aged well.

 

[ColinS]

I find it more enjoyable to have discussions about the pros & cons of this team with level headed posters instead of the same dumb arguments with the doom & gloom crowd.

Me too. The ones that can't handle an ounce of criticism or can't discuss obvious weaknesses are just as annoying. I can actually understand where the doom and gloom guy is coming from. He is pissed because his team lost and he is overeacting.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Not once have I ever mentioned “ firing” CRB. Just like Bison said, I think he is a good coach, maybe one of the top 2-3 we have ever had. At the same time, we have never had the 4 th highest paid coach in the country until CRB So I just expect superior results. So far he has underperformed, that’s all.

You’ve definitely mentioned that he should retire, hoping he retires, or hoping we would move on...might have well of said fire.

You continue to use this as a driving force, clearly you don’t understand how salaries work or are decided. Expectations aren’t lower for lower paid coaches, when CCM was 13th paid coach in the league nobody was saying all he had to do was finish better than 13th...you seem to only want to use this argument in one direction.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

This is a reasonable take. Of course, many won't see it that way.

What's wrong with expecting better results? Nothing

Literally expecting results never before seen in program history, yea probably something wrong with those expectations.

 

[vols 30]

Literally expecting results never before seen in program history, yea probably something wrong with those expectations.

Yep, for the people that settle. I agree

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Yep, for the people that settle. I agree

Hope/wishing/optimistic is different than expecting...of course you’re the one who wanted us to can Barnes after Year 2 so not shocking.

 

[vols 30]

Hope/wishing/optimistic is different than expecting...of course you’re the one who wanted us to can Barnes after Year 2 so not shocking.

And you have a loser mentality. Don't expect much is your moto. Go cheer for Missouri

 

[VolsAgainstTheWorld15]

And you have a loser mentality. Don't expect much is your moto. Go cheer for Missouri

What are your expectations for this program? Not trying to be smart or anything. Just curious.

 

[cardvolfan]

Most of us don’t obsess over Barnes salary.

It’s one thing to be disappointed in our team but bringing up the same old argument again & again is going to get annoying over time.

Why so surprised?

Again and again and again. The obsession is unrelenting. The whole Rick Barnes obsession is unrelenting, from salary to antiquated offense.....and so on.

 

[DocVol]

Green's teams were awesome in regular season but folded like wet tissue at tournament time.

Jerry Green would average 100 pts per game with this roster.

 

[cardvolfan]

Jerry Green would average 100 pts per game with this roster.

I hope you’re not serious? They would AVERAGE 100 points per game? You’re either living on another planet or you just don’t have enough rocks upstairs to be considered for such deep discussions. The last resort is that you’re purposefully trying to get a rise out of people. Whatever the reason, I’m not buying your crap. It stinks.

 

[vols 30]

What are your expectations for this program? Not trying to be smart or anything. Just curious.

Tourney every year, and when you pay a coach like UT is RB, it's reasonable to expect deep runs some years. Not every year

 

[cardvolfan]

Tourney every year, and when you pay a coach like UT is RB, it's reasonable to expect deep runs some years. Not every year

You have no clue. Sorry, but as long as Barnes wants to be at UT, he will be at UT. Might as well relax, look at the postseason resumes of nearly every NCAA coach, regardless of salary, and save yourself the cost of Tums. Getting so worked up in your attempts to accentuate the negative is bad for your health.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

And you have a loser mentality. Don't expect much is your moto. Go cheer for Missouri

I expect to be a NCAAT team pretty much every year, we seem to be on track to do that...but sure, let’s fire Barnes and try another MM name, give him 2 years and do the same, seems like a great strategy.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Tourney every year, and when you pay a coach like UT is RB, it's reasonable to expect deep runs some years. Not every year

You didn’t have lesser expectations for CCM when he was paid 13th in the league, why does that mindset only go 1 way? And right now we appear to be a program that is likely to be NCAA bound on a consistent basis, so...

 

[Vols8086]

I'm pretty much on board with the expectation of making it to the tourney every year, but I'll take it a step further since we do have a coach that I believe is the 4th highest paid coach in college bball.

If you are paying that much for a coach he should make it to the 2nd weekend in March at least twice a decade and if that holds true then he should make it to the Elite 8 at least 1 out of every 4 trips to the second weekend in March. So once every 20 years a trip to the Elite 8.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

I'm pretty much on board with the expectation of making it to the tourney every year, but I'll take it a step further since we do have a coach that I believe is the 4th highest paid coach in college bball.

If you are paying that much for a coach he should make it to the 2nd weekend in March at least twice a decade and if that holds true then he should make it to the Elite 8 at least 1 out of every 4 trips to the second weekend in March. So once every 20 years a trip to the Elite 8.

While I don’t think that’s a crazy expectation let me ask this...if this off-season 10 coaches got raises and Barnes was now the 14th highest paid coach would your expectations change?

 

[Vols8086]

While I don’t think that’s a crazy expectation let me ask this...if this off-season 10 coaches got raises and Barnes was now the 14th highest paid coach would your expectations change?

Yes expectations would change for me if he was 14th vs 4th. Higher pay (in comparison to your peers) lends itself to higher expectations as far as I'm concerned.

Just to expound on that, our AD has long gone bargain bin shopping for coaches in all sports, which lends itself to a ton of turnover every few years when that hire doesn't work out. Pay Big Lots prices and get Big Lots quality as far as I'm concerned. You're essentially hoping to catch lightning in a bottle (ala Bruce Pearl) but you're more than likely getting Tyndall, Buzz, Green, O'Neil, Butch, Pruitt, Dooley, Warlick, the multiple baseball coaches before Vitello, etc.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

While I don’t think that’s a crazy expectation let me ask this...if this off-season 10 coaches got raises and Barnes was now the 14th highest paid coach would your expectations change?

Barnes would probably already be 14th right now had the pandemic pretty much put a freeze on throwing more money at coaches. Plus there was no NCAAT a year ago for the Elite 8 coaches to leverage their existing deals.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Yes expectations would change for me if he was 14th vs 4th. Higher pay (in comparison to your peers) lends itself to higher expectations as far as I'm concerned.

Just to expound on that, our AD has long gone bargain bin shopping for coaches in all sports, which lends itself to a ton of turnover every few years when that hire doesn't work out. Pay Big Lots prices and get Big Lots quality as far as I'm concerned. You're essentially hoping to catch lightning in a bottle (ala Bruce Pearl) but you're more than likely getting Tyndall, Buzz, Green, O'Neil, Butch, Pruitt, Dooley, Warlick, the multiple baseball coaches before Vitello, etc.

Would seem hard to just randomly lower expectations with nothing to do with results, I know most posters wouldn’t, maybe you’re different. Guessing you were a big fan of Cuonzo Martin? He really out performed his salary ranking compared to peers.

 

[zjcvols]

Barnes would probably already be 14th right now had the pandemic pretty much put a freeze on throwing more money at coaches. Plus there was no NCAAT a year ago for the Elite 8 coaches to leverage their existing deals.

I highly doubt that. There’s like 9 coaches that even make $4M

 

[VolArmy74]

The goal should be the NC every season for the team and I'm sure it is. The expectation should be the tourney 5 of every 6 years, Sweet 16 every 3-4 years. For the amount of money UT spends on recruiting, facilities and coaches it gets the least return in the SEC as far as tournament success over it's history. Georgia sucks too but for years they virtually ignored BB compared to our commitment to it.

We should get to the elite 8 much more frequently than every 20 years as well. We have a big recruiting base and budget and facilities that are second to none. It's ridiculous that for whatever reason that coaches besides Pearl couldn't or can't get to the elite 8. There's no excuse not to win at the highest level, at least no good one. If Florida can come out of the relative basketball cellar and win multiple national titles, we should be able to make the elite 8 more frequently than every 20 years. Florida hadn't made the NCAA tournament before 1987 and have been to the EE 9 times in the last 25 years over a span of multiple coaches. LSU has averaged an EE every 8 years since 1980. We shouldn't be so much worse than LSU and Florida in the post season but we have basically only played to our seeding a few times ever in our tournament history.

 

[PEPPERJAX]

BTO

Why are you bringing up CCM? What does he have to do with our current coach and the expectations right now?

 

[Vols8086]

Would seem hard to just randomly lower expectations with nothing to do with results, I know most posters wouldn’t, maybe you’re different. Guessing you were a big fan of Cuonzo Martin? He really out performed his salary ranking compared to peers.

You're ignoring the nature of the business though when it comes to contracts for coaches. If Barnes continued to meet/exceed expecations he would receive raises and extensions. So if he were to have some massive drop in where he ranked in terms of coaching salary it would most likely mean his teams have struggled and this would most likely take place over a 5 year span.

Barnes makes 27% more than the 14th highest paid coach in the league so this idea he is suddenly going to drop far down the list in an offseason or 2 is ludicrous to begin with.

Wasn't a fan of Zo. I thought he played an extremely boring brand of ball and wasn't going to take the program any further than we already had been. Read my post again about bargain bin shopping.