Rick Barnes discussion [merged]

#1,176
#1,176
Vols8086 said:
I'm pretty much on board with the expectation of making it to the tourney every year, but I'll take it a step further since we do have a coach that I believe is the 4th highest paid coach in college bball.

If you are paying that much for a coach he should make it to the 2nd weekend in March at least twice a decade and if that holds true then he should make it to the Elite 8 at least 1 out of every 4 trips to the second weekend in March. So once every 20 years a trip to the Elite 8.
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You should get a patent on your formula. AD’s everywhere could use it as fact in negotiations when deciding on hiring and firing coaches.
 
#1,178
#1,178
UCLA gave Barnes something to think about.

Fulmer was willing to let Barnes walk until Boyd stepped in and gave him a boost in his salary. It has nothing to do with expectations.

Letting Barnes walk without any kind of back up plan would have been the dumbest thing the AD could have done, business wise.

There wouldn’t be no Kennedy Chandler, Mashack, and certainly wouldn’t be in the mix for Hatfield. Keeping Barnes was a smart decision regardless what the anti Barnes crowd has to say about it.
 
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#1,180
#1,180
PEPPERJAX said:
BTO

Why are you bringing up CCM? What does he have to do with our current coach and the expectations right now?
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Ok let’s use Tyndall as an example then, point is the same...we don’t set 13th place expectations for a coach paid 13th in conference, so why do we say Barnes pay means we should expect Top 5 results?
 
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#1,181
#1,181
VolFreakJosh said:
UCLA gave Barnes something to think about.

Fulmer was willing to let Barnes walk until Boyd stepped in and gave him a boost in his salary. It has nothing to do with expectations.

Letting Barnes walk without any kind of back up plan would have been the dumbest thing the AD could have done, business wise.

There wouldn’t be no Kennedy Chandler, Mashack, and certainly wouldn’t be in the mix for Hatfield. Keeping Barnes was a smart decision regardless what the anti Barnes crowd has to say about it.
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So you have the same expectations for a Honda Accord as you do a Mercedes Benz? Of course you don't. Paying more for something naturally puts higher expectations on the higher priced item than the lower priced item. It doesn't always mean it will work out that way, but you still believe you will get more satisfaction and/or better results from the higher priced item. Otherwise you would just go the cheapest route every single time.

I really don't understand why this is such a difficult concept to grasp. Now if you are arguing that expectations are too high now, well that is worth discussing. However, if the only expectation is to make the tourney every year, well I don't think we need to have the 4th highest coach in the country to be one of the top 68 teams every year.
 
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#1,182
#1,182
Vols8086 said:
You're ignoring the nature of the business though when it comes to contracts for coaches. If Barnes continued to meet/exceed expecations he would receive raises and extensions. So if he were to have some massive drop in where he ranked in terms of coaching salary it would most likely mean his teams have struggled and this would most likely take place over a 5 year span.

Barnes makes 27% more than the 14th highest paid coach in the league so this idea he is suddenly going to drop far down the list in an offseason or 2 is ludicrous to begin with.

Wasn't a fan of Zo. I thought he played an extremely boring brand of ball and wasn't going to take the program any further than we already had been. Read my post again about bargain bin shopping.
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My point being it’s hypocritical to use Barnes salary as a way to set expectations but then not use it the opposite direction too. Barnes makes what he does because UCLA felt he was worth it and Tennessee felt it was worth it to have him continue to be our coach, that simple, he’s already earned that pay. I highly doubt you’ll see him continue to get raises that keep him as the Top 5 paid coach over the next few years.
 
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#1,183
#1,183
bleedingTNorange said:
My point being it’s hypocritical to use Barnes salary as a way to set expectations but then not use it the opposite direction too. Barnes makes what he does because UCLA felt he was worth it and Tennessee felt it was worth it to have him continue to be our coach, that simple, he’s already earned that pay. I highly doubt you’ll see him continue to get raises that keep him as the Top 5 paid coach over the next few years.
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I don't disagree with it being hypocritical and I think you are justified to point out that hypocrisy, but that doesn't have anything to do with me. I've never once said anything about past UT coaches expectations vs their salaries. I am also fully aware as to why Barnes got his raise and I don't have any issue with it either. So if you're going to respond to me, then respond to what I said. Don't just lump me into other people's view points that I don't share and haven't made.

I don't think Barnes will stay in the top 5, but I don't see him dropping out of the top 12 anytime soon either. The top 10 are all the blue bloods, plus Barnes and Chris Beard. Then after that it's Huggins, Buzz Williams, and Pearl. There really isn't a blue blood that is underpaying right now that you can easily expect to pony up and vault into the top 10. Mark Few is grossly underpaid in comparison to his peers, but other than that, there really isn't a bunch of obvious candidates to just shell out 5 million a year for as a coach.

Even if he only remains in the top 12, that probably puts him behind only UK in the SEC and a group of coaches that most have either been to or won a national title. You can't just keep pace with that group and not have any expectations.
 
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#1,184
#1,184
VolArmy74 said:
The goal should be the NC every season for the team and I'm sure it is. The expectation should be the tourney 5 of every 6 years, Sweet 16 every 3-4 years. For the amount of money UT spends on recruiting, facilities and coaches it gets the least return in the SEC as far as tournament success over it's history. Georgia sucks too but for years they virtually ignored BB compared to our commitment to it.

We should get to the elite 8 much more frequently than every 20 years as well. We have a big recruiting base and budget and facilities that are second to none. It's ridiculous that for whatever reason that coaches besides Pearl couldn't or can't get to the elite 8. There's no excuse not to win at the highest level, at least no good one. If Florida can come out of the relative basketball cellar and win multiple national titles, we should be able to make the elite 8 more frequently than every 20 years. Florida hadn't made the NCAA tournament before 1987 and have been to the EE 9 times in the last 25 years over a span of multiple coaches. LSU has averaged an EE every 8 years since 1980. We shouldn't be so much worse than LSU and Florida in the post season but we have basically only played to our seeding a few times ever in our tournament history.
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You’re kind of cherry picking the LSU average. Another way to assess the one EE every 8 years is also that TN has been to as many EEs as LSU has in the last 34 years. The 4 EEs between 1980 and 1987 were when Dale Brown had them rolling. Shaq never even made it out of the 1st weekend in his 3 years.

People discount how much luck is involved with the NCAAT outside of the handful of blue bloods that get special treatment to enhance ratings in the FF. Getting into the tournament every year without getting punished by the NCAA is how to start building a program.
 
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#1,185
#1,185
cardvolfan said:
You have no clue. Sorry, but as long as Barnes wants to be at UT, he will be at UT. Might as well relax, look at the postseason resumes of nearly every NCAA coach, regardless of salary, and save yourself the cost of Tums. Getting so worked up in your attempts to accentuate the negative is bad for your health.
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LoL, I think you have me confused with someone else. I haven't said he should be fired in a few years.

He's doing a good job, but I think it's within reason to expect better
 
#1,186
#1,186
bleedingTNorange said:
You didn’t have lesser expectations for CCM when he was paid 13th in the league, why does that mindset only go 1 way? And right now we appear to be a program that is likely to be NCAA bound on a consistent basis, so...
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He's doing a good job. He's landing talented kids too. I don't want him fired( I did question the hire after the first couple of seasons, but he's proved me wrong)

I think it's within reason to expect deeper runs in the Tourney
 
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#1,187
#1,187
bleedingTNorange said:
I expect to be a NCAAT team pretty much every year, we seem to be on track to do that...but sure, let’s fire Barnes and try another MM name, give him 2 years and do the same, seems like a great strategy.
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I have not said let's fire RB in a few years. If I'm wrong, then post it. There was a lot of posters questioning the hire the first year or two
 
#1,188
#1,188
Thunder Good-Oil said:
You’re kind of cherry picking the LSU average. Another way to assess the one EE every 8 years is also that TN has been to as many EEs as LSU has in the last 34 years. The 4 EEs between 1980 and 1987 were when Dale Brown had them rolling. Shaq never even made it out of the 1st weekend in his 3 years.

People discount how much luck is involved with the NCAAT outside of the handful of blue bloods that get special treatment to enhance ratings in the FF. Getting into the tournament every year without getting punished by the NCAA is how to start building a program.
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I'm just looking back at our long history of being terrible in the post season and it's ridiculous that LSU has been to the EE 4x as much as we have. Memphis has been 4 times since 1992. It's very unfortunate that we're seemingly always unlucky in the post season. We are tied with KSU in wins with 5 fewer seasons and they have 13 EEs to our 1. We have more wins than Virginia in school history but they have 7 EEs to our 1. We have more wins that Missouri and they have 5 EEs to our 1. We have more wins than Iowa with 4 less seasons played and they have 4 EEs to our 1. More wins than Pitt but 3 to 1 on EEs. This list goes on and on. Every team we are within 40 behind and 40 ahead in all time wins has way more EEs than we do. except Alabama.
 
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#1,189
#1,189
PEPPERJAX said:
BTO

Why are you bringing up CCM? What does he have to do with our current coach and the expectations right now?
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It’s relevant because Martin’s salary was in the bottom half of the league yet he was criticized for his coaching. I was frustrated with it too, but his teams ended the regular seasons ranked higher in the conference than his salary rank. The point is that people expect coaches to win if they are making $1 million or $5 million. Coaches who make $1 million still get fired for not winning. The other point that has been made a thousand times is that Barnes’ salary was mostly the result of market, timing, and economics. People who complain it totally don’t care about those concepts.
 
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#1,197
#1,197
Namorto1 said:
Good first half. Tempo slowed and turnovers and fouls killed us. Actually feel a bit better heading to NCAA tournament. #5 or #6 seed. When we run we are a better club....pretty simple, but we don’t always play to our strengths.
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Look at Barnes record in March. He wouldn’t get past the second round if we had Michael Jordan
 
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