Rick Barnes discussion [merged]

#1,352
#1,352
VOLnVANDYland said:
Let me be clear that I am not clamoring for Forbes to be here.
But, the fact that you are judging a guy’s coaching acumen and potential by his first year with WF after taking over a moribund program in historically the toughest league in the country, in the middle of a pandemic with restrictions on team meetings and practices is beyond ridiculous.
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Hey, you guys are judging him as THE upgrade to Barnes....
 
#1,353
#1,353
mr.checkerboards said:
Not at all the school can continue making as many bad choices as it wants. My point is if you are getting paid with the best you need to beat the best. Does Cal get paid what he does for seasons like this year? How about coach K? Looking at Barnes overall body of work not just TN he is not a good enough coach to get what he is being paid. He misses expectations and does not bring championships.
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If he's getting paid for championships then based on what he's getting paid, the recruits he gets yearly, and the fact he coaches at one of the biggest historical blue bloods in college basketball, then he is getting crazy overpaid. He hasn't produced a National Championship in almost a decade (and the same number that Tubby Smith produced) nor been to a Final Four in 6 years. And again given where he coaches and who he recruits, any year he doesn't even make the NCAAT is pathetic and this year makes 2 of his 12 seasons not counting the canceled season he didn't.
 
#1,354
#1,354
EZE said:
Hey, you guys are judging him as THE upgrade to Barnes....
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The best part about all this is, if we had let Barnes walk and replaced him with Forbes and Forbes didn't work out they would complain about how we never go for a big name and settle for the "Forbes" of the world rofl.
 
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#1,356
#1,356
VOLnVANDYland said:
I did not. But I see you trashing him based on one year
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The ACC was garbage this year and he finished 14th out of 15 teams. That’s just a fact. He inherited a first team all ACC big but couldn’t talk him out of transferring. He also hasn’t done much in recruiting so I doubt they’ll be much better next year. I bet Wake gets rid of him in 2-3 years.
 
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#1,357
#1,357
SGMVols said:
The ACC was garbage this year and he finished 14th out of 15 teams. That’s just a fact. He inherited a first team all ACC big but couldn’t talk him out of transferring. He also hasn’t done much in recruiting so I doubt they’ll be much better next year. I bet Wake gets rid of him in 2-3 years.
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He didn’t have much of an opportunity to institute his culture and hardly any face time with his players. He was a good coach at ETSU, that’s just the facts. I’d bet he is there a lot longer than “ 2-3 years” don’t be ridiculous
 
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#1,358
#1,358
VOLnVANDYland said:
He didn’t have much of an opportunity to institute his culture and hardly any face time with his players. He was a good coach at ETSU, that’s just the facts. I’d bet he is there a lot longer than “ 2-3 years” don’t be ridiculous
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Buzz Peterson won a lot of games at App State and Tulsa. Didn’t help him here. Some guys are just better suited for the mid majors.
 
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#1,360
#1,360
SGMVols said:
Buzz Peterson won a lot of games at App State and Tulsa. Didn’t help him here. Some guys are just better suited for the mid majors.
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Well yes of course. But on the other hand we have coaches like Nate Oates, Brad Stevens, and yes even Bruce Pearl that just needed to get their opportunities to showcase their abilities. All of them would need more than a year at WF under these circumstances to show what they truly got.
 
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#1,361
#1,361
SGMVols said:
Buzz Peterson won a lot of games at App State and Tulsa. Didn’t help him here. Some guys are just better suited for the mid majors.
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People always pull out the guys that won at mid-majors and then won at a Power Conference team, but the reality is most of them don't and a decent number of them end up back at mid-majors where they once again do pretty well.

For example, remember Anthony Grant? He did well at VCU and was considered a home run hire at Alabama and could only get 1 1 and done in the NCAAT and 3 NIT appearances in 6 years. And now he's back at Dayton and last year was 29-2 and ended the year ranked #3 and then Covid canceled the postseason. That story is far more reality than "mid major guy kills it in the big time".
 
#1,362
#1,362
VolFreakJosh said:
Anti Barnes crowd wants an upgrade over Barnes then brings up Forbes as being a better potential replacement?

This is such a silly discussion.

What’s worse is they’re actually serious.
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And they'd also be the first to run Forbes out and complain how we never go after a name coach. It's a never ending circle for these guys. Barnes deserves criticism but good lord.
 
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#1,363
#1,363
VOLnVANDYland said:
Well yes of course. But on the other hand we have coaches like Nate Oates, Brad Stevens, and yes even Bruce Pearl that just needed to get their opportunities to showcase their abilities. All of them would need more than a year at WF under these circumstances to show what they truly got.
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Oates stepped into a really nice situation with a talented roster of veterans.
 
#1,366
#1,366
VolsSportsFan said:
And they'd also be the first to run Forbes out and complain how we never go after a name coach. It's a never ending circle for these guys. Barnes deserves criticism but good lord.
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It’s really pretty simple. If you don’t win in March you’re gonna eventually get run out at some point. I don’t care who it is. It is the nature of the business and it’s not unique to Tennessee. Some think 1 sweet sixteen in 5 seasons (I fear it’s about to be 6 season) is good enough because of our history and others think we should be doing better than that. I’m not asking for Barnes to be fired, I just want to see better in game management in close games, and some better development of front court players, and cut down on some total misses on recruited players.
 
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#1,367
#1,367
If we’re throwing around Steve Forbes, why not consider Kermit Davis?

I think we could sway him from Ole Miss.

He coaches his players hard and almost got them to the tournament this year. He’d be a much better choice than Forbes.
 
#1,370
#1,370
I actually think with Danny White in charge and the fact we have now previously committed a large amount of money to a head basketball coach we could pull a decent P5 type coach. I’m not going to pretend to know names but in basketball it’s more common than in football. This isn’t Doug Dickey in charge. Hell you take out Dickey’s AD tenure and since Mears we’ve been pretty good at hiring coaches. Mears was awesome, Devoe was solid. Pearl was a home run, Martin was fine. Tyndall was bad because of the show cause. But I think UT could find a solid coach if Barnes left for some reason. Hell we hired Barnes and people were excited about that and we were in a much worse spot than now.
 
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#1,371
#1,371
mr.checkerboards said:
I would just like to point out, I never said Forbes was an upgrade, I said he could do what Barnes is doing for less money.
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And I disagree with that. I’ve seen nothing out of Forbes that leads me to believe that at UT he could:

- make the sweet 16
- beat UK 8 times in 6 years
- get UT to #1 in the polls
- get top 5 recruiting classes
- win an SEC regular season title
 
#1,372
#1,372
EZE said:
When the he!! has Tennessee ever had a championship men’s basketball program? Now, yes, we’d all like to see it get there, but it never has been that in any way, shape or form. In fact, it has been downright abysmal more than it has been even “good.”

The way you win championships is through recruiting. And that has to be, and is being, built. All you have to do is RATIONALLY look at the progression to date:

1. Barnes comes into an embarrassing, raging dumpster fire six seasons ago. 5-star recruits? Bwahahaha! Wouldn’t even give UT a sniff.

2. So he recruits some diamonds in the rough, develops them and wins a regular season championship, which doesn’t happen very often at UT. Look at our history.

3. He is now starting to reel in the 4 and 5-star recruits. Another thing that hasn’t happened very often at UT.

I would be very disappointed to not be able to see where this uptick in recruiting can take this program.

Plus, we’ve seen how well changing coaches has helped “elevate” various programs at UT. A change would much more likely end with basketball descending in the SEC standings as opposed to ascending. And your suggestion that a 6-16 coach at Wake Forrest is the answer makes you lose all credibility.

Tennessee fans really are a miserable “glass is half empty” bunch. It is maddening.
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I would buy this but look at Barnes history. Hes been around the game for a long time, he was at Texas for ever and a day. He won the conference outright once, and tied for it twice. Never won the B12 toruney and only has one FF. An average to slightly below average coach could do more than that at some point. Its not like he is some new hot shot on the block who is still growing into the job hes been around long enough and had enough talent he should be able to luck into something and he cant even do that. Next, you say recruiting but recruiting is what Barnes and others have blamed on his failures at TX, but you want him to do the same thing here? Barnes is not good at all on game-day. Give me someone who adjusts and strategies over but doesn't recruit as well over Barnes any day of the week.
 
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#1,373
#1,373
Hell South Carolina, Missouri and Texas A&M both hired guys from P5 schools and they aren’t great basketball guys by any means. Probably all worse jobs than us.
 
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#1,374
#1,374
SGMVols said:
And I disagree with that. I’ve seen nothing out of Forbes that leads me to believe that at UT he could:

- make the sweet 16
- beat UK 8 times in 6 years
- get UT to #1 in the polls
- get top 5 recruiting classes
- win an SEC regular season title
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Barnes tied with a reg season title.
So then what he did at ETSU should just be ignored? ETSU was terrible when Forbes got there and he turned them into a solid team. I dont expect him to do much at Wake because that program more than sucks, it is in a much worse spot then TN was when Barnes got here.
 
#1,375
#1,375
orangemadam said:
Let's throw an inflation factor into this equation.

If UT opened the door next month and offered $6.5 M for a new basketball coach, would we get some high caliber coaches interested?

I think we could get some high level interest at 6.5-7M that would get us similar if not better results for the program.
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Im sure some coaches might listen, but most would stay put.
 
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