Rick Barnes discussion [merged]

[mr.checkerboards]

He could also do worse for less money.

Could but very doubtful

 

[VolsSportsFan]

Could but very doubtful

Based on what other than your conjecture?

 

[SGMVols]

Barnes tied with a reg season title.
So then what he did at ETSU should just be ignored? ETSU was terrible when Forbes got there and he turned them into a solid team. I dont expect him to do much at Wake because that program more than sucks, it is in a much worse spot then TN was when Barnes got here.

Yes I think it should be ignored. As I said before, the coaching graveyard is full of names who won big at the mid major level but flopped in the big leagues.

I also disagree that Forbes inherited a much worse situation at Wake than Barnes at UT. Barnes would’ve killed to inherit a big man like Olivier Sarr. It was a recruiting failure by Forbes that he couldn’t talk him out of leaving.

 

[mr.checkerboards]

Based on what other than your conjecture?

And what do you have to base that he would fail on.
But based on 2 30 win season and conference titles at a school that had been under the graveyard before he got there.

 

[mr.checkerboards]

Yes I think it should be ignored. As I said before, the coaching graveyard is full of names who won big at the mid major level but flopped in the big leagues.

I also disagree that Forbes inherited a much worse situation at Wake than Barnes at UT. Barnes would’ve killed to inherit a big man like Olivier Sarr. It was a recruiting failure by Forbes that he couldn’t talk him out of leaving.

And for every flop there is a success. On Sarr, its a failure sure but at the same time if Cal is offering me $$$ to come play at UK its hard to turn that down.

 

[SGMVols]

And for every flop there is a success. On Sarr, its a failure sure but at the same time if Cal is offering me $$$ to come play at UK its hard to turn that down.

The ratio of flops to successes is a lot more than 1:1

 

[VolsSportsFan]

And what do you have to base that he would fail on.
But based on 2 30 win season and conference titles at a school that had been under the graveyard before he got there.

I never said he would fail, I said in response to you saying he could do just as well as Barnes that he could do worse. And what I base it on is on the same thing you base your thought on.....fantasy. Because there's no way to prove it.

We've already addressed that good mid-major coaches fail at Power Conference teams all the time. And under the graveyard? Exaggerate much?

 

[VolsSportsFan]

And for every flop there is a success. On Sarr, its a failure sure but at the same time if Cal is offering me $$$ to come play at UK its hard to turn that down.

ROFL....no....there is not. The flops outweigh the successes by a large margin. You're starting to sound like D4H talking about quaterbacks.

 

[VOLnVANDYland]

Yes I think it should be ignored. As I said before, the coaching graveyard is full of names who won big at the mid major level but flopped in the big leagues.

I also disagree that Forbes inherited a much worse situation at Wake than Barnes at UT. Barnes would’ve killed to inherit a big man like Olivier Sarr. It was a recruiting failure by Forbes that he couldn’t talk him out of leaving.

Lol just stop. And maybe if Barnes could have talked Jalen Johnson into staying we wouldn’t be rolling with Gaines in crunch time vs a top 10 program in the SEC tournament...seems like a big recruiting failure for a team that has only real 7 man rotation ...

 

[VOLnVANDYland]

He could also do worse for less money.

It’s all hypothetical but I would think there’s more than a few coaches that could come to Tennessee and get to 1 sweet sixteen in 5 about to be 6 seasons. For less money. It’s really not that high of a bar. And yes Forbes could be one of them... hypothetically

 

[cardvolfan]

Once again Tennessee has over paid for a mediocre coach. NO championships here. He is regular season Rick same as always. Patrick Ewing has a conference tournament championship before regular season Rick could get one here. They should have let him go to UCLA.

One coach wins a conference championship in each league every year. 10, 11, 12 or more are losers, right? Some of you just cant conceive the nature of basketball.

 

[VOLnVANDYland]

One coach wins a conference championship in each league every year. 10, 11, 12 or more are losers, right? Some of you just cant conceive the nature of basketball.

Nah. I think the argument has been that 1 shared regular season conf title and 1 sweet sixteen in 6 seasons is a bit of an underachievement for a program that is willing to seriously invest and pay top 5 in the country salary for a head ball coach. And if you don’t like the criticism or think it’s unfair maybe you don’t conceive the nature of big boy athletics.

 

[GBO18]

Once again Tennessee has over paid for a mediocre coach. NO championships here. He is regular season Rick same as always. Patrick Ewing has a conference tournament championship before regular season Rick could get one here. They should have let him go to UCLA.

Does @1985Vols have multiple accounts on here?

 

[VOLnVANDYland]

Does @1985Vols have multiple accounts on here?

Does JoshFreak?

 

[VOLnVANDYland]

Bout to hear Porter Moser’s (shudder) name blow up again this off season. If he ever decides to leave Chicago, some program would get an excellent coach

 

[USAFgolferVol]

Nah. I think the argument has been that 1 shared regular season conf title and 1 sweet sixteen in 6 seasons is a bit of an underachievement for a program that is willing to seriously invest and pay top 5 in the country salary for a head ball coach. And if you don’t like the criticism or think it’s unfair maybe you don’t conceive the nature of big boy athletics.

Criticism is fair to a point. Certainly Barnes deserves some. It' s unfair though, to blame him for every loss and for everything that goes wrong during a game.

 

[SGMVols]

Criticism is fair to a point. Certainly Barnes deserves some. It' s unfair though, to blame him for every loss and for everything that goes wrong during a game.

It really does get tiring listening to this fanbase turn every single loss into an existential crisis.

 

[VOLnVANDYland]

Criticism is fair to a point. Certainly Barnes deserves some. It' s unfair though, to blame him for every loss and for everything that goes wrong during a game.

Where did I do that? You’re projecting

 

[VolsSportsFan]

It really does get tiring listening to this fanbase turn every single loss into an existential crisis.

I just get sick of hearing about the salary; like we're supposed to believe many of these same people wouldn't be complaining just as much if he made $2 million a year.

 

[VOLnVANDYland]

I just get sick of hearing about the salary; like we're supposed to believe many of these same people wouldn't be complaining just as much if he made $2 million a year.

I don’t care what he was able to get. More power to him, UCLA had an infatuation with him for some reason, and he got what the market bore(it would not nearly be the same in 2021). But what I am frustrated with is that over the past years the administration has finally showed a propensity to value and invest in the program, top 5 nationally in terms of head coach salary, nice upgrade in facilities, and budgets in general, yet the expectations have not changed. It doesn’t happen over night, but our goals need to be higher.

 

[USAFgolferVol]

Where did I do that? You’re projecting

No, I'm not projecting. I wasn't specifically pointing at you

 

[USAFgolferVol]

I don’t care what he was able to get. More power to him, UCLA had an infatuation with him for some reason, and he got what the market bore(it would not nearly be the same in 2021). But what I am frustrated with is that over the past years the administration has finally showed a propensity to value and invest in the program, top 5 nationally in terms of head coach salary, nice upgrade in facilities, and budgets in general, yet the expectations have not changed. It doesn’t happen over night, but our goals need to be higher.

I disagree. I think expectations are as high as ever

 

[SGMVols]

I don’t care what he was able to get. More power to him, UCLA had an infatuation with him for some reason, and he got what the market bore(it would not nearly be the same in 2021). But what I am frustrated with is that over the past years the administration has finally showed a propensity to value and invest in the program, top 5 nationally in terms of head coach salary, nice upgrade in facilities, and budgets in general, yet the expectations have not changed. It doesn’t happen over night, but our goals need to be higher.

There are only two ways that you get fired at UT if you are making the tournament fairly regularly.

1) You publicly insult the administration and dare them to fire you.

2) You commit violations that necessitate firing you for cause.

AFAIK, Barnes has done neither of these.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

I would buy this but look at Barnes history. Hes been around the game for a long time, he was at Texas for ever and a day. He won the conference outright once, and tied for it twice. Never won the B12 toruney and only has one FF. An average to slightly below average coach could do more than that at some point. Its not like he is some new hot shot on the block who is still growing into the job hes been around long enough and had enough talent he should be able to luck into something and he cant even do that. Next, you say recruiting but recruiting is what Barnes and others have blamed on his failures at TX, but you want him to do the same thing here? Barnes is not good at all on game-day. Give me someone who adjusts and strategies over but doesn't recruit as well over Barnes any day of the week.

Failures at Texas?

Texas was in the Southwest Conference before Barnes became their head coach. He was in the Big 12 with one of the bluest of blue bloods. Plus Oklahoma. Plus KSU. Plus ISU. It’s not like winning any basketball championship at Texas is going to be easy.

The Final Four by Barnes was the first in half a century by Texas and the first two were with very few teams invited. The 2nd weekend WAS the FF.

Barnes more than doubled the number of conference championships in the history of Texas BB.

CRB nearly doubled the total number of Elite Eights by Texas in their history.

CRB doubled the number of Sweet 16s in their history.

CRB doubled the total number of NCAAT appearances by Texas in their history of playing NCAA basketball.

 

[mr.checkerboards]

Failures at Texas?

Texas was in the Southwest Conference before Barnes became their head coach. He was in the Big 12 with one of the bluest of blue bloods. Plus Oklahoma. Plus KSU. Plus ISU. It’s not like winning any basketball championship at Texas is going to be easy.

The Final Four by Barnes was the first in half a century by Texas and the first two were with very few teams invited. The 2nd weekend WAS the FF.

Barnes more than doubled the number of conference championships in the history of Texas BB.

CRB nearly doubled the total number of Elite Eights by Texas in their history.

CRB doubled the number of Sweet 16s in their history.

CRB doubled the total number of NCAAT appearances by Texas in their history of playing NCAA basketball.

So hes still there coaching and they love him? He has been in the game since 1987 and has a grand total of 1 reg season titles and a couple of ties. Hes nothing special. Are our goals to make the tourney? Or are they to win the tourney? Hell a tourney? Barnes is fine when he has several days to gameplan, but when the game doesnt go how he thinks it will, and the other team adjusts he is terrible.