Rick Barnes discussion (merged)

[SeanJean]

Also, the Elite 8 was great for us and this school, but ultimately nobody remembers Elite 8 teams or cares. It's Final Four or higher. Otherwise it's like Butch Celebrating winning the TaxSlayer bowl. Champion of Life energy.

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

Also, the Elite 8 was great for us and this school, but ultimately nobody remembers Elite 8 teams or cares. It's Final Four or higher. Otherwise it's like Butch Celebrating winning the TaxSlayer bowl. Champion of Life energy.

Casual, know-nothing fans. It's not remotely comparable to playing in a bowl game.

 

[ColinS]

Casual, know-nothing fans. It's not remotely comparable to playing in a bowl game.

Agree, with the modern football playoff it would be the equivalent of winning a first round playoff and then losing to the number 2 team in the country in the next round.

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

Agree, with the modern football playoff it would be the equivalent of winning a first round playoff and then losing to the number 2 team in the country in the next round.

Ok. Run along now. I get it. You clearly don't know any better

 

[Stoked]

Also, the Elite 8 was great for us and this school, but ultimately nobody remembers Elite 8 teams or cares. It's Final Four or higher. Otherwise it's like Butch Celebrating winning the TaxSlayer bowl. Champion of Life energy.

Lol a TaxSlayer Bowl win is not comparable to an Elite 8 win. This is insane logic. Winning 3 post season games in a row is insanely more impressive than winning just 1 game.

68 teams make it to the postseason and only one team wins it.

There are over 40 bowl games with 20 winners.

 

[VolFreakJosh]

Also, the Elite 8 was great for us and this school, but ultimately nobody remembers Elite 8 teams or cares. It's Final Four or higher. Otherwise it's like Butch Celebrating winning the TaxSlayer bowl. Champion of Life energy.

Your line of thinking is dumb af.

 

[cardvolfan]

Also, the Elite 8 was great for us and this school, but ultimately nobody remembers Elite 8 teams or cares. It's Final Four or higher. Otherwise it's like Butch Celebrating winning the TaxSlayer bowl. Champion of Life energy.

That’s kind of funny because I still remember our Elite 8 run in 2010. We also finished #5 in the final AP poll last year. Ultimately, most fans remember the national championship winners. Pretty amazing how triggered people get and the comments made about our basketball program. Comparing last year’s team to a Butch bowl team is laughable.

 

[SeanJean]

That’s kind of funny because I still remember our Elite 8 run in 2010. We also finished #5 in the final AP poll last year. Ultimately, most fans remember the national championship winners. Pretty amazing how triggered people get and the comments made about our basketball program. Comparing last year’s team to a Butch bowl team is laughable.

Fair enough, comparing it to the Tax Slayer bowl is a bit harsh, but it isn't that far off. No one outside of our fans care about an Elite 8. It's just a sad reflection of our team's post season history that we do. We have had too many good players and teams to only have two Elite 8s to show for it. Truth hurts sometimes.

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

Fair enough, comparing it to the Tax Slayer bowl is a bit harsh, but it isn't that far off. No one outside of our fans care about an Elite 8. It's just a sad reflection of our team's post season history that we do. We have had too many good players and teams to only have two Elite 8s to show for it. Truth hurts sometimes.

Your opinion is truth?

 

[SGMVols]

Also, the Elite 8 was great for us and this school, but ultimately nobody remembers Elite 8 teams or cares. It's Final Four or higher. Otherwise it's like Butch Celebrating winning the TaxSlayer bowl. Champion of Life energy.

Honestly who gives AF if Bama lost one round later than we did

In the long run only the team that wins it all really gets remembered, and 67 of 68 teams don’t get to be that team

 

[Stoked]

Fair enough, comparing it to the Tax Slayer bowl is a bit harsh, but it isn't that far off. No one outside of our fans care about an Elite 8. It's just a sad reflection of our team's post season history that we do. We have had too many good players and teams to only have two Elite 8s to show for it. Truth hurts sometimes.

Well it's extremely hard to win 4-6 games straight.

Let me give you a comparison...

Tennessee won a Natty in baseball this year... yet they lost their 2nd game to Evansville in the Super Regional. In basketball they're headed home and their season is over. Nope. They get to play again and advance.

Then they lose the very first game in the CWS to Texas A&M. In basketball they go home and their season is over. Nope. They get a chance to play again, they win, play again, and win a Natty.

Basketball you cannot have a bad game and lose or you are out.

 

[SeanJean]

I understand how it works.

It is not my opinion that we only have two Elite 8's in the history of our basketball program.

 

[SeanJean]

We have the fifth highest paid basketball coach in America and have a handful of Sweet 16s and an Elite 8 to show for it. I think he is a very good coach who has built a great program here and made us relevant, but his style of play doesn't work in March, and also happens to be really hard to watch a large part of the time. It just is what it is.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

We have the fifth highest paid basketball coach in America and have a handful of Sweet 16s and an Elite 8 to show for it. I think he is a very good coach who has built a great program here and made us relevant, but his style of play doesn't work in March, and also happens to be really hard to watch a large part of the time. It just is what it is.

The 5th highest paid coach that won TN’s 2nd SEC Tournament championship in over 4 decades? That happened in March.

If Barnes makes the NCAAT in 2025 he will have been 7 times. That’s the most of any UT coach in history.

 

[Stoerner Fumbles]

We have the fifth highest paid basketball coach in America and have a handful of Sweet 16s and an Elite 8 to show for it. I think he is a very good coach who has built a great program here and made us relevant, but his style of play doesn't work in March, and also happens to be really hard to watch a large part of the time. It just is what it is.

”His style of play doesn’t work in March” was the big knock on Tony Bennett. Then he won it all. It’s a dumb observation. There is no style of coaching that works eleven months out of the year, but not in March.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

I understand how it works.

It is not my opinion that we only have two Elite 8's in the history of our basketball program.

Our basketball history went into hibernation as the NCAAT grew into its current form. That was several decades of neglect. Houston. O’Neill, Buzz. Donnie. All failed to even get into the tournament. Cuonzo barely got in once. Don’t take it for granted that TN doesn’t live on the bubble any more.

If Barnes coaches into his 70s he could retire with half of UT’s NCAAT appearances.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

”His style of play doesn’t work in March” was the big knock on Tony Bennett. Then he won it all. It’s a dumb observation. There is no style of coaching that works eleven months out of the year, but not in March.

His style of play also evolves. Defense is a constant and defense wins tons of games.

Grant was a scorer. Bone was up tempo. Knecht had a green light. Schofield. Springer. Chandler. Johnson. Barnes adapts to what works. NIL as well. And he hasn’t thrown in the towel signing low character kids that can play at a high level.

 

[Stoked]

Our basketball history went into hibernation as the NCAAT grew into its current form. That was several decades of neglect. Houston. O’Neill, Buzz. Donnie. All failed to even get into the tournament. Cuonzo barely got in once. Don’t take it for granted that TN doesn’t live on the bubble any more.

If Barnes coaches into his 70s he could retire with half of UT’s NCAAT appearances.

This. Coach Barnes is a victim of his own success, sadly. He's the best coach we have ever had and the reason our program will be an attractive place to come to once he retires. One that was a dumpster fire when he took it over.

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

We have the fifth highest paid basketball coach in America and have a handful of Sweet 16s and an Elite 8 to show for it. I think he is a very good coach who has built a great program here and made us relevant, but his style of play doesn't work in March, and also happens to be really hard to watch a large part of the time. It just is what it is.

You mean a one and done tournament that takes some luck to win? You certainly spew the narrative of the casual fan

 

[chuckiepoo]

You mean a one and done tournament that takes some luck to win? You certainly spew the narrative of the casual fan

… and the season long challenge begins. I hate the ignore button. I have yet to leave anyone one on perpetual ignore, I just scroll.

 

[SeanJean]

”His style of play doesn’t work in March” was the big knock on Tony Bennett. Then he won it all. It’s a dumb observation. There is no style of coaching that works eleven months out of the year, but not in March.

Was being the operative word. Winning a title changes that. Rick hasn't come close. I'm just dealing in facts here.

 

[SeanJean]

Our basketball history went into hibernation as the NCAAT grew into its current form. That was several decades of neglect. Houston. O’Neill, Buzz. Donnie. All failed to even get into the tournament. Cuonzo barely got in once. Don’t take it for granted that TN doesn’t live on the bubble any more.

If Barnes coaches into his 70s he could retire with half of UT’s NCAAT appearances.

This. Coach Barnes is a victim of his own success, sadly. He's the best coach we have ever had and the reason our program will be an attractive place to come to once he retires. One that was a dumpster fire when he took it over.

Both very fair points that I agree with. I know he's a good coach. He's not a coach that is going to get you deep into March though. We have years and years of evidence of this at this point. His teams run out of gas late in the season and usually go home earlier than expected. It's not an anomaly.

 

[SeanJean]

His style of play also evolves. Defense is a constant and defense wins tons of games.

Grant was a scorer. Bone was up tempo. Knecht had a green light. Schofield. Springer. Chandler. Johnson. Barnes adapts to what works. NIL as well. And he hasn’t thrown in the towel signing low character kids that can play at a high level.

I don't agree with this. I don't think his style of play has evolved much at all. He is a balls to wall, all out defensive coach. If you don't give that level of effort on defense, you don't see the floor. He prioritizes this over offense, clearly. And it'll win you a lot of games.

But the team still runs this goofy motion offense that usually wastes the first 15 seconds of the shot clock just aimlessly passing the ball around the perimeter with no plan or intent to attack the basket or put pressure on the defense. They did it with Grant, they did it with DK, they did it with Kevin Punter Jr., and they are doing it now. If they are hitting perimeter shots, it looks great. But therein lies the rub: You aren't going to consistently hit perimeter shots away from home against good teams in March, especially playing that hard on defense, so you need a backup plan like drawing fouls, feeding the post, etc. DK was that backup plan last year, but you rarely have an offensive player that talented who can play 1 on 5 and get you a tough basket like that.

Of course that is all my opinion, but I have traveled to see this team play a lot of basketball over the last 10 years and it is often very frustrating given the talent this guy recruits. I wish it wasn't that way, because Rick is an absolute class act and a great dude by all accounts. I so want to see him get to the top. I just don't have much faith.

 

[SeanJean]

I think that’s exactly what we saw Barnes do yesterday and was exactly what he wanted to accomplish. The team is still finding its identity and Barnes is putting in different looks to see what he has.

I watched it last night and we certainly didn’t look great, but if you noticed the rotations (which were fairly random), I’m certain it wasn’t designed to put the balls to the wall and win. Think it was more “let’s try this and see what we get” and more “here’s the plan, let’s see if this group can execute” approach - which is exactly what these exhibitions are made for, particularly against a good opponent like Indiana.

Think we’ve got some really good pieces in place and I’m excited to see this team come together. Defensively, I think we will be better than last year, offensively probably a step back. You can’t just replace Knecht and Santi/James in an instant. These guys have to play together and get some experience before we start seeing what they can do.

All very fair points. I hope so.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Both very fair points that I agree with. I know he's a good coach. He's not a coach that is going to get you deep into March though. We have years and years of evidence of this at this point. His teams run out of gas late in the season and usually go home earlier than expected. It's not an anomaly.

UT isn’t a blue blood either. Barnes is a great coach for this program. He isn’t stale either. I thought that he would struggle with NIL but he’s adjusted quite well. And he hasn’t sacrificed character for wins. He has been signing outstanding young men instead of compromising just to get high level performers on the court.

Being the 5th highest paid is well deserved. And at this stage he’s locked down.