Rick Barnes discussion (merged)

[SeanJean]

UT isn’t a blue blood either. Barnes is a great coach for this program. He isn’t stale either. I thought that he would struggle with NIL but he’s adjusted quite well. And he hasn’t sacrificed character for wins. He has been signing outstanding young men instead of compromising just to get high level performers on the court.

Being the 5th highest paid is well deserved. And at this stage he’s locked down.

No arguments here. I do think he's overpaid though, but that is splitting hairs a bit. I also don't take for granted we have a competitive team every year. I just don't expect a lot in the big dance.

 

[SeanJean]

My hope is that when he steps aside, which I think is sooner than later, all the great work he has done to build this program allows the next guy to step in and get us over the hump.

 

[SGMVols]

Was being the operative word. Winning a title changes that. Rick hasn't come close. I'm just dealing in facts here.

Ok so tell us who we should hire, and who would actually take the job, who will win us a natty. I’m all ears

 

[SGMVols]

My hope is that when he steps aside, which I think is sooner than later, all the great work he has done to build this program allows the next guy to step in and get us over the hump.

The program is almost certain to go backwards when he leaves. There’s a ton more room to go down than to go up.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

I don't agree with this. I don't think his style of play has evolved much at all. He is a balls to wall, all out defensive coach. If you don't give that level of effort on defense, you don't see the floor. He prioritizes this over offense, clearly. And it'll win you a lot of games.

But the team still runs this goofy motion offense that usually wastes the first 15 seconds of the shot clock just aimlessly passing the ball around the perimeter with no plan or intent to attack the basket or put pressure on the defense. They did it with Grant, they did it with DK, they did it with Kevin Punter Jr., and they are doing it now. If they are hitting perimeter shots, it looks great. But therein lies the rub: You aren't going to consistently hit perimeter shots away from home against good teams in March, especially playing that hard on defense, so you need a backup plan like drawing fouls, feeding the post, etc. DK was that backup plan last year, but you rarely have an offensive player that talented who can play 1 on 5 and get you a tough basket like that.

Of course that is all my opinion, but I have traveled to see this team play a lot of basketball over the last 10 years and it is often very frustrating given the talent this guy recruits. I wish it wasn't that way, because Rick is an absolute class act and a great dude by all accounts. I so want to see him get to the top. I just don't have much faith.

It’s not the NBA. He knows how to manage players at this level and pile up wins and championships.

Barnes demanding that Bone push the ball contradicts the assertion of not adjusting his talent to the offense.

Opponents are going to emphasize taking away the fast break when TN plays the highly disciplined team defense. That’s the price and having a top 10 defense year in and year out wins a lot more games than a comparable offense with little defense. Filling out a roster with the offense first philosophy might have worked for UK, KU, UConn, UNC, and Duke but it won’t for a program like TN.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

No arguments here. I do think he's overpaid though, but that is splitting hairs a bit. I also don't take for granted we have a competitive team every year. I just don't expect a lot in the big dance.

Pay is economics. You can’t simply throw money at a head coaching position and guarantee success.

 

[THEONLYTENISEE]

Both very fair points that I agree with. I know he's a good coach. He's not a coach that is going to get you deep into March though. We have years and years of evidence of this at this point. His teams run out of gas late in the season and usually go home earlier than expected. It's not an anomaly.

What’s a real expectation? Tennessee only has 2 Elite 8 appearances. 1 was with Barnes, the other with Pearl.

 

[SeanJean]

It’s not the NBA. He knows how to manage players at this level and pile up wins and championships.

Barnes demanding that Bone push the ball contradicts the assertion of not adjusting his talent to the offense.

Opponents are going to emphasize taking away the fast break when TN plays the highly disciplined team defense. That’s the price and having a top 10 defense year in and year out wins a lot more games than a comparable offense with little defense. Filling out a roster with the offense first philosophy might have worked for UK, KU, UConn, UNC, and Duke but it won’t for a program like TN.

Piles up championships, lol. That maaaayyy be a stretch don't you think?

Playing up tempo and running a fast break isn't the only offensive option. You can also drive into the paint, look to feed the post, go inside out, draw fouls, etc. Most of our guys hover around the perimeter, are scared to drive inside the three point line or to the basket, and the few big men we have had on the roster, are rarely aggressive on offense and post up and attack the rim either. Awaka was an exception who I was excited to watch this year, but he transferred.

I assume most of them are playing so hard on defense and are so scared to make a mistake that they play tight and tentative on offense. I've seen too many talented offensive guys come here and all of a sudden look lost on the floor and get run off to the transfer portal.

 

[SeanJean]

What’s a real expectation? Tennessee only has 2 Elite 8 appearances. 1 was with Barnes, the other with Pearl.

A final four. At least one. When you spend every season in the top 10, and at the top of the SEC, and you see every other conference rival get there, you'd have to think eventually you get one right?

 

[SGMVols]

Piles up championships, lol. That maaaayyy be a stretch don't you think?

Playing up tempo and running a fast break isn't the only offensive option. You can also drive into the paint, look to feed the post, go inside out, draw fouls, etc. Most of our guys hover around the perimeter, are scared to drive inside the three point line or to the basket, and the few big men we have had on the roster, are rarely aggressive on offense and post up and attack the rim either. Awaka was an exception who I was excited to watch this year, but he transferred.

I assume most of them are playing so hard on defense and are so scared to make a mistake that they play tight and tentative on offense. I've seen too many talented offensive guys come here and all of a sudden look lost on the floor and get run off to the transfer portal.

The vast majority of the guys who transferred out never amounted to jack squat anywhere else

 

[SeanJean]

I'll sum it up like this: We know Barnes teams will play defense. That's a given. The thing that has, and will always, hold his teams back is offense in March. Last year we had a superstar, so it could have been the year. It still wasn't enough. I don't see a superstar on this roster and significantly less scoring ability, but maybe this Lanier guy and Milicic will get it going.

 

[SGMVols]

A final four. At least one. When you spend every season in the top 10, and at the top of the SEC, and you see every other conference rival get there, you'd have to think eventually you get one right?

If we didn’t have to face the literal best player in the country in the E8 we would’ve had one. The draw matters

 

[THEONLYTENISEE]

My hope is that when he steps aside, which I think is sooner than later, all the great work he has done to build this program allows the next guy to step in and get us over the hump.

How sooner are you thinking? Are you referring to his age? There’s active coaches older than Barnes.

 

[Volfan1000]

UT isn’t a blue blood either. Barnes is a great coach for this program. He isn’t stale either. I thought that he would struggle with NIL but he’s adjusted quite well. And he hasn’t sacrificed character for wins. He has been signing outstanding young men instead of compromising just to get high level performers on the court.

Being the 5th highest paid is well deserved. And at this stage he’s locked down.

Barnes's last major hurdle at Tennessee is to get the team into the Final Four before he hangs it up.

 

[SGMVols]

Barnes's last major hurdle at Tennessee is to get the team into the Final Four before he hangs it up.

If it doesn’t happen under him then nobody reading this thread will live to see one, in all likelihood.

 

[VolGee4]

Our basketball history went into hibernation as the NCAAT grew into its current form. That was several decades of neglect. Houston. O’Neill, Buzz. Donnie. All failed to even get into the tournament. Cuonzo barely got in once. Don’t take it for granted that TN doesn’t live on the bubble any more.

If Barnes coaches into his 70s he could retire with half of UT’s NCAAT appearances.

He also has half of Texas’ NCCAT appearances.

 

[SGMVols]

He also has half of Texas’ NCCAT appearances.

Not many coaches out there who can say they were the best coach in school history at two places.

 

[ColinS]

Ok. Run along now. I get it. You clearly don't know any better

I'm agreeing with you and taking your side but ok, whatever

 

[THEONLYTENISEE]

If it doesn’t happen under him then nobody reading this thread will live to see one, in all likelihood.

Look at the LV basketball. DW wants to win. We shouldn’t have to google the name of the next coach.

 

[SGMVols]

Look at the LV basketball. DW wants to win. We shouldn’t have to google the name of the next coach.

Kim Caldwell was coaching d2 ball 18 months ago. She was absolutely a Google Coach. Doesn’t mean she won’t succeed but if he can’t get a bigger name than that to take over the biggest brand in women’s basketball, you should probably temper your expectations for Rick’s successor.

It will almost certainly be a mid major coach unless it’s a promotion from within the staff

 

[VolGee4]

The 5th highest paid coach that won TN’s 2nd SEC Tournament championship in over 4 decades? That happened in March.

If Barnes makes the NCAAT in 2025 he will have been 7 times. That’s the most of any UT coach in history.

He’s not even the 5th highest anymore. His salary was all about the timing of his courtship with UCLA. Hurley and Ed Cooley make more, and Mark Pope is making 5.5. So, a guy who has made 2 NCAAT’s in 9 seasons (and hasn’t gotten out of the first round) is making about as much as Rick Barnes. That’s why the salary discussion is so dumb.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Piles up championships, lol. That maaaayyy be a stretch don't you think?

Playing up tempo and running a fast break isn't the only offensive option. You can also drive into the paint, look to feed the post, go inside out, draw fouls, etc. Most of our guys hover around the perimeter, are scared to drive inside the three point line or to the basket, and the few big men we have had on the roster, are rarely aggressive on offense and post up and attack the rim either. Awaka was an exception who I was excited to watch this year, but he transferred.

I assume most of them are playing so hard on defense and are so scared to make a mistake that they play tight and tentative on offense. I've seen too many talented offensive guys come here and all of a sudden look lost on the floor and get run off to the transfer portal.

Driving into the paint isn’t necessarily a low risk/high reward strategy. And TN hasn’t had huge post players that can camp out near the rim and get easy scores.

Yes. SEC regular season titles had been rare. SEC Tournament championships have been non-existent. Even making the SECT Finals had happened when? One time since Devoe’s first year. Each week of the NCAAT is in effect a championship needed to make a regional/S16. And beating Kansas at the Atlantis holiday tournament was yet another championship.

Enjoy your misery.

 

[THEONLYTENISEE]

Kim Caldwell was coaching d2 ball 18 months ago. She was absolutely a Google Coach. Doesn’t mean she won’t succeed but if he can’t get a bigger name than that to take over the biggest brand in women’s basketball, you should probably temper your expectations for Rick’s successor.

It will almost certainly be a mid major coach unless it’s a promotion from within the staff

Harper would have gotten an extension under previous administration.

 

[VolGee4]

I don't agree with this. I don't think his style of play has evolved much at all. He is a balls to wall, all out defensive coach. If you don't give that level of effort on defense, you don't see the floor. He prioritizes this over offense, clearly. And it'll win you a lot of games.

But the team still runs this goofy motion offense that usually wastes the first 15 seconds of the shot clock just aimlessly passing the ball around the perimeter with no plan or intent to attack the basket or put pressure on the defense. They did it with Grant, they did it with DK, they did it with Kevin Punter Jr., and they are doing it now. If they are hitting perimeter shots, it looks great. But therein lies the rub: You aren't going to consistently hit perimeter shots away from home against good teams in March, especially playing that hard on defense, so you need a backup plan like drawing fouls, feeding the post, etc. DK was that backup plan last year, but you rarely have an offensive player that talented who can play 1 on 5 and get you a tough basket like that.

Of course that is all my opinion, but I have traveled to see this team play a lot of basketball over the last 10 years and it is often very frustrating given the talent this guy recruits. I wish it wasn't that way, because Rick is an absolute class act and a great dude by all accounts. I so want to see him get to the top. I just don't have much faith.

He didn’t do it with Grant at all - just not true. That last Grant team was actually poor defensively and had to outscore teams. All you have to do is a little research, and you will see breakdowns of the offense that year where Bone played uptempo. It’s all out there.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

He also has half of Texas’ NCCAT appearances.

Plus he’s been in conferences with all of the blue bloods EXCEPT UCLA and arguably Indiana.