Rick Barnes discussion (merged)

#1,626
#1,626
Thunder Good-Oil said:
I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make with Vanderbilt. They have a good basketball program.

Vanderbilt won one SEC Tournament in each era and wasn’t in any other SECT championship game. TN has won 4x and was the runner up 8x.
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Vanderbilt is towards the bottom in the SEC all-time. Here were the rankings I put together for SEC Basketball with results counted through 2019.

SEC Basketball All-Time Rankings (Updated to include everything to 2019)

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#1,627
#1,627
volbound1700 said:
Vanderbilt is towards the bottom in the SEC all-time. Here were the rankings I put together for SEC Basketball with results counted through 2019.

SEC Basketball All-Time Rankings (Updated to include everything to 2019)

View attachment 431934
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Vanderbilt has 2 SECT championships. The 3rd wasn’t the SEC.

Vanderbilt has won over 59% of their SEC games. That doesn’t put them towards the bottom.
 
#1,628
#1,628
volbound1700 said:
No one cares about regular season wins with the exception of whether they get you in the dance or not.
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I’m somebody and I care about regular season wins? They’re apx 30 nights of entertainment to me and they are more entertaining when we compete hard and win. I also enjoy watching them playing in the NCAA’s.
 
#1,629
#1,629
volbound1700 said:
I don't think Tennessee is a very strong Basketball program overall. If you want a great football comparison to Tennessee Basketball, I would put us on the level of a Missouri, NC State, or Purdue in football.
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I don't quite understand the mentality, though. There's no denying that Tennessee is one of the programs (along with Missouri, incidentally) with the most NCAAT appearances/wins without a Final Four appearance, but how do you get to the point where you think, "Well, we don't have the hardware, so we just have to take what we can get"? I don't think resigning yourself to mediocrity is rational.

We're paying the guy a lot of money with few returns. If Auburn can make the Final Four despite their unimpressive history, I think it's okay for Tennessee fans to want more and think it's entirely possible to achieve more. With the right coach, we have the fans, facilities, and resources to sustain a winning program. I'm just afraid Rick has plateaued again.
 
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#1,630
#1,630
ThatVolGuy said:
I don't quite understand the mentality, though. There's no denying that Tennessee is one of the programs (along with Missouri, incidentally) with the most NCAAT appearances/wins without a Final Four appearance, but how do you get to the point where you think, "Well, we don't have the hardware, so we just have to take what we can get"? I don't think resigning yourself to mediocrity is rational.

We're paying the guy a lot of money with few returns. If Auburn can make the Final Four despite their unimpressive history, I think it's okay for Tennessee fans to want more and think it's entirely possible to achieve more. With the right coach, we have the fans, facilities, and resources to sustain a winning program. I'm just afraid Rick has plateaued again.
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Do you want to sell out all integrity to get that Final Four? It's quite clear Auburn did, and LSU is trying to. No, you're not wrong for striving for that, but you also have to ask yourself what you're willing to give up and/or do for it.
 
#1,631
#1,631
ThatVolGuy said:
I don't quite understand the mentality, though. There's no denying that Tennessee is one of the programs (along with Missouri, incidentally) with the most NCAAT appearances/wins without a Final Four appearance, but how do you get to the point where you think, "Well, we don't have the hardware, so we just have to take what we can get"? I don't think resigning yourself to mediocrity is rational.

We're paying the guy a lot of money with few returns. If Auburn can make the Final Four despite their unimpressive history, I think it's okay for Tennessee fans to want more and think it's entirely possible to achieve more. With the right coach, we have the fans, facilities, and resources to sustain a winning program. I'm just afraid Rick has plateaued again.
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Because in sports, you play for Championships and not good records.
 
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#1,632
#1,632
Thunder Good-Oil said:
I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make with Vanderbilt. They have a good basketball program.

Vanderbilt won one SEC Tournament in each era and wasn’t in any other SECT championship game. TN has won 4x and was the runner up 8x.
Click to expand...

Compared to most of the nation and the rest of the SEC, Vanderbilt is a VERY MEDIOCRE BASKETBALL program.

Look at the Big East, Big12, ACC, Pac12, or Big10 for comparison: You see most of their programs have made FFs, competing for titles, and have a far better history than Tennessee or Vanderbilt.

I will just go through a list of Big East teams for example. Would you put Tennessee or Vandy ahead of any of these teams?

Connecticut
Georgetown
Seton Hall
Villanova
St. Johns
Butler
Marquette
Providence

I could do the same thing with most of the rest of the leagues. Neither Tennessee or Vanderbilt are great basketball programs. Memphis would qualify as a great basketball program because they have actually made it to FFs and E8s.
 
#1,633
#1,633
ThatVolGuy said:
I don't quite understand the mentality, though. There's no denying that Tennessee is one of the programs (along with Missouri, incidentally) with the most NCAAT appearances/wins without a Final Four appearance, but how do you get to the point where you think, "Well, we don't have the hardware, so we just have to take what we can get"? I don't think resigning yourself to mediocrity is rational.

We're paying the guy a lot of money with few returns. If Auburn can make the Final Four despite their unimpressive history, I think it's okay for Tennessee fans to want more and think it's entirely possible to achieve more. With the right coach, we have the fans, facilities, and resources to sustain a winning program. I'm just afraid Rick has plateaued again.
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Because in Basketball, you are measured based on Tournament Performance similar to how in Football you are graded by Bowl Game Appearances, Playoff Appearances, and AP top 25 appearances.

I see what you are saying with Auburn in basketball and it kind of sums up why some blue bloods in football are failing while programs like Oklahoma State or Ole Miss are having far better results. (Both Ole Miss and Oklahoma State have been far better than Miami, Nebraska, Tennessee, Texas, or USC the last 10 years). Auburn, however, struck lighting in the bottle with Pearl. Pearl was meh at Tennessee. Sure he jump started the program but he didn't win any Championships. He has done an even better job at Auburn and let's be honest, everyone was surprised by his success there. Sure, it was a good hire at the time but people were expecting results similar to what we are getting with Barnes.

Also, if I remember correctly, Auburn wallowed at the bottom of the SEC for 3 years and it took almost 5-6 years before Pearl made the FF run. Using the logic of this thread for Barnes, we would have fired Pearl if he produced the results he did his first 3 years at Auburn.
 
#1,634
#1,634
volbound1700 said:
Vanderbilt is towards the bottom in the SEC all-time. Here were the rankings I put together for SEC Basketball with results counted through 2019.

SEC Basketball All-Time Rankings (Updated to include everything to 2019)

View attachment 431934
Click to expand...
I don’t see how ppl can look at our history and think man “Barnes sucks and is overrated”
 
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#1,636
#1,636
ThatVolGuy said:
I don't quite understand the mentality, though. There's no denying that Tennessee is one of the programs (along with Missouri, incidentally) with the most NCAAT appearances/wins without a Final Four appearance, but how do you get to the point where you think, "Well, we don't have the hardware, so we just have to take what we can get"? I don't think resigning yourself to mediocrity is rational.

We're paying the guy a lot of money with few returns. If Auburn can make the Final Four despite their unimpressive history, I think it's okay for Tennessee fans to want more and think it's entirely possible to achieve more. With the right coach, we have the fans, facilities, and resources to sustain a winning program. I'm just afraid Rick has plateaued again.
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Tennessee is paying him extra because it's very difficult at Tennessee to maintain mediocrity. Just imagine how far Tennessee would have slid back in the pack if he were paid like an average coach with a history of disappointment at important times.
 
#1,637
#1,637
volbound1700 said:
Compared to most of the nation and the rest of the SEC, Vanderbilt is a VERY MEDIOCRE BASKETBALL program.

Look at the Big East, Big12, ACC, Pac12, or Big10 for comparison: You see most of their programs have made FFs, competing for titles, and have a far better history than Tennessee or Vanderbilt.

I will just go through a list of Big East teams for example. Would you put Tennessee or Vandy ahead of any of these teams?

Connecticut
Georgetown
Seton Hall
Villanova
St. Johns
Butler
Marquette
Providence

I could do the same thing with most of the rest of the leagues. Neither Tennessee or Vanderbilt are great basketball programs. Memphis would qualify as a great basketball program because they have actually made it to FFs and E8s.
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I’d put TN and Vandy only behind about three of those programs. The SEC is brutal and always has been. PAC12 is full of garbage. Big 12/8 /SWC have always had easy games at some point.
 
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#1,638
#1,638
Thunder Good-Oil said:
I’d put TN and Vandy only behind about three of those programs. The SEC is brutal and always has been. PAC12 is full of garbage. Big 12/8 /SWC have always had easy games at some point.
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Only in your mind. Half those programs have at least one National Title and all of them have Final Fours. Most of them have more NCAA Tournament Appearances than Tennessee and Vanderbilt combined.

You want to go Pac12:

Arizona
Utah
UCLA
Stanford
USC
Oregon
Oregon State

I would up all of them ahead of Tennessee and Vanderbilt.

Keep in mind that a large contingent of fans do not even watch Men's Basketball until March Madness.
 
#1,639
#1,639
volbound1700 said:
Only in your mind. Half those programs have at least one National Title and all of them have Final Fours. Most of them have more NCAA Tournament Appearances than Tennessee and Vanderbilt combined.

You want to go Pac12:

Arizona
Utah
UCLA
Stanford
USC
Oregon
Oregon State

I would up all of them ahead of Tennessee and Vanderbilt.

Keep in mind that a large contingent of fans do not even watch Men's Basketball until March Madness.
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How many of those have 75 wins versus one of the Blue Bloods?
 
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#1,640
#1,640
Thunder Good-Oil said:
How many of those have 75 wins versus one of the Blue Bloods?
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Not sure, that would take hours of research. However, I am sure they also don't have 157 losses to a Blue Blood as well.

Feel free to go through that list of Big East teams and try to justify how Tennessee is better than any of them.
 
#1,641
#1,641
volbound1700 said:
Not sure, that would take hours of research. However, I am sure they also don't have 157 losses to a Blue Blood as well.

Feel free to go through that list of Big East teams and try to justify how Tennessee is better than any of them.
Click to expand...

The Big East barely has a 40 year history. You probably aren’t even aware that the NIT was once more prestigious than the NCAAT. Seeding, fortunate matchups, and the single elimination nature of the NCAAT very much discredits it as a single measure of the best programs. Mid-majors don’t get beat all to hell twice a week for 2+ months leading up to the made for TV finale. It’s much easier for those MM invitees to be ready to put together a couple of end of season wins.

A recent single, short end of season run doesn’t trump 100 years of regular seasons in high level conferences.
 
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#1,642
#1,642
volbound1700 said:
Only in your mind. Half those programs have at least one National Title and all of them have Final Fours. Most of them have more NCAA Tournament Appearances than Tennessee and Vanderbilt combined.

You want to go Pac12:

Arizona
Utah
UCLA
Stanford
USC
Oregon
Oregon State

I would up all of them ahead of Tennessee and Vanderbilt.

Keep in mind that a large contingent of fans do not even watch Men's Basketball until March Madness.
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Wyoming, La Salle, and San Francisco have championships too. Don't think that's the best way to measure the best programs today.
 
#1,644
#1,644
volbound1700 said:
Not sure, that would take hours of research. However, I am sure they also don't have 157 losses to a Blue Blood as well.

Feel free to go through that list of Big East teams and try to justify how Tennessee is better than any of them.
Click to expand...
You’re a TROLL. Get off our board and follow whoever your team is.
 
#1,645
#1,645
volbound1700 said:
Compared to most of the nation and the rest of the SEC, Vanderbilt is a VERY MEDIOCRE BASKETBALL program.

Look at the Big East, Big12, ACC, Pac12, or Big10 for comparison: You see most of their programs have made FFs, competing for titles, and have a far better history than Tennessee or Vanderbilt.

I will just go through a list of Big East teams for example. Would you put Tennessee or Vandy ahead of any of these teams?

Connecticut
Georgetown
Seton Hall
Villanova
St. Johns
Butler
Marquette
Providence

I could do the same thing with most of the rest of the leagues. Neither Tennessee or Vanderbilt are great basketball programs. Memphis would qualify as a great basketball program because they have actually made it to FFs and E8s.
Click to expand...
Another one about to hit the Ignore List.
 
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#1,646
#1,646
cardvolfan said:
You’re a TROLL. Get off our board and follow whoever your team is.
Click to expand...

You guys are the trolls trying to fire Rick Barnes who is one of the better coaches in Tennessee Basketball.

If you are talking Football or Women's Basketball, heck even Softball, sure we are a top job but I don't consider Tennessee to be a high level men's basketball program.
 
#1,649
#1,649
MinisterofDef#92 said:
Crickets on how we are playing now from all the "fans" in here "who only want TN to play better"...not surprised...lol

#exposed

Some are trolls while others are posters whose pride is greater than their fandom
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It really is bizarre, do some of these folks legitimately prefer losing?
 
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