Rick Barnes: Year One

#76
#76
Serious question: what attainable outcome for this team would have merited an A grade? Or, what do you think someone like Izzo or Krzyzewski would have done with this year's roster and a season-ending injury to Punter?
 
#77
#77
goodnight_vol said:
Serious question: what attainable outcome for this team would have merited an A grade? Or, what do you think someone like Izzo or Krzyzewski would have done with this year's roster and a season-ending injury to Punter?
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Finishing the season 16-16 after a last minute loss to Arkansas as a result of your all-star guard fouling out.
 
#78
#78
Stoked said:
Tyndall a C+, yet CCM who finished 2nd in the SEC after his first year here gets a C and goes to the sweet 16 in year 3 and gets a C? Damn do you give Tyndall a curve bro? Makes no sense you'd give a coach that went to the sweet 16 a better grade than a coach that didn't even make the nit.

CCM underachieved the whole regular season that year, but still ended up in the sweet 16 where almost everyone predicted we'd be. Tyndall and Barnes deserve the same grade at the very least. Barnes should get a slight curve just because of how much roster turnover there was with having 3 coaches in 3 years, plus a player quitting on the team in the middle of the year.
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And that kids, is why you don't do drugs, how Tyndall gets a C+ and Barnes a D is only a theory Bruin/Buzz/SD/Dallas can understand, which shows just how insane it truly is.

Barnes roster < Tyndall's roster, and yet a 2 win difference is that big of a difference?

What makes it even more comical is the criteria for grading changes, Martin gets a low grade because he assembled a talented roster and didn't meet the regular season expectations of many, yet Tyndall has a short handed roster and a .500 season and he is excused for the record because of the roster make up, but then Barnes is criticized for not assembling a talented enough roster for him to win 2 more...can't even make this stuff up lol.

Assembling a roster is part of the coaches job, that goes for Martin/Tyndall/Barnes, if you're gonna hold it against one you have to hold it against the others too...my overall grades for Martin's last season and year one for Tyndall and Barnes would be:

Martin: B+
Tyndall: C
Barnes: C-
 
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#79
#79
Everyone's grades are subjective. You can guess each poster's grades before they even list them based on their known feelings about a coach.

I agree that based on some of these, it would have been virtually impossible for certain people to give Barnes a B or above. The talent he inherited was the worst I have seen in the 20 years that I have really been following the basketball team. Time to move on.
 
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#82
#82
bleedingTNorange said:
And that kids, is why you don't do drugs, how Tyndall gets a C+ and Barnes a D is only a theory Bruin/Buzz/SD/Dallas can understand, which shows just how insane it truly is.

Barnes roster < Tyndall's roster, and yet a 2 win difference is that big of a difference?

What makes it even more comical is the criteria for grading changes, Martin gets a low grade because he assembled a talented roster and didn't meet the regular season expectations of many, yet Tyndall has a short handed roster and a .500 season and he is excused for the record because of the roster make up, but then Barnes is criticized for not assembling a talented enough roster for him to win 2 more...can't even make this stuff up lol.

Assembling a roster is part of the coaches job, that goes for Martin/Tyndall/Barnes, if you're gonna hold it against one you have to hold it against the others too...my overall grades for Martin's last season and year one for Tyndall and Barnes would be:

Martin: B+
Tyndall: C
Barnes: C-
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I defended Martin most of the time until 2/3 of the way into his last season. He frustrated me. But, the NCAAT run was fun. I told a friend last night that if UT that year had Vandy's resume this year, they would not have made the NCAAT.

I thought Tyndall was a good coach, and I think Barnes is as well. I will say one thing that can't be denied: If Martin or Tyndall had at least recruited a PG, Rick Barnes would probably have had 2-4 more wins this past year.
 
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#83
#83
zjcvols said:
5. Why did Rick Barnes lie to us?

You all should remember. Rick Barnes told us Tennessee was going to push the pace, shoot three's like crazy, and average 80 something points a game and have an exciting 94 foot offense. If you watched Barnes' teams and saw the stats, you knew this was (to put it bluntly) bull****. Barnes had never done that and while I don't want to assume I know people, most 61 year old coaches that have been around for 25 years don't change their ways.

And he didn't. Barnes promised a bunch of three's and Tennessee only took 36.2% of their shots from 3, which was average in the country (152nd). Barnes promised a fast paced offense. They averaged 69.4 possessions, which is semi deflated because of the good offensive rebounding but their average time of possession was 17 seconds which was 115th in the country. That's not exactly a fast pace.

I understand Tennessee didn't have a lot of horses but Barnes routinely played 9-10 guys a game. With the lack of size on this team you have to think it would make so much sense to push the pace. And in the beginning of the year he did. But he really went away from it once conference play started, as evidenced by taking more time per possession (a .6 decrease).

I don't understand why you would say you are going to change your ways and not do it. I said I would believe it when I see it. He didn't do it. And assuming he doesn't bring a big time big man or grad transfer, he's going to still have a very small team. He needs to embrace a fast pace, shooting team.
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Honest question, is it possible Barnes thought that strategy was their best bet preseason, and eventually realized it wasn't? Tennessee was 1-8 in games that they attempted 25+ 3 pointers, so I'm not sure that jacking up more 3's is the key to success for this past season. They thought Turner would get eligible, they expected McGhee to stick out the season, and they probably thought they were gonna get a little more from Kasongo. Add in injuries to Moore/Hubbs/Punter during the season, and you went from having 12 scholarship guys to by seasons end sometimes only having 9.

Just a thought.
 
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#84
#84
Dallasbowlin said:
One hit .500, the other did. Tyndall c, Barnes d.
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I'll ask you too, was 15-15 the consensus expectation? Bruin likes to hold the boards predictions against Barnes, I'm curious what the average prediction was for Tyndall last year on this board, I bet better than 15-15, which would mean less than a C as he didn't meet expectations.
 
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#85
#85
bleedingTNorange said:
I'll ask you too, was 15-15 the consensus expectation? Bruin likes to hold the boards predictions against Barnes, I'm curious what the average prediction was for Tyndall last year on this board, I bet better than 15-15, which would mean less than a C as he didn't meet expectations.
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I wasn't on the board when he first accepted the job that much.
 
#86
#86
VolGee4 said:
I defended Martin most of the time until 2/3 of the way into his last season. He frustrated me. But, the NCAAT run was fun. I told a friend last night that if UT that year had Vandy's resume this year, they would not have made the NCAAT.

I thought Tyndall was a good coach, and I think Barnes is as well. I will say one thing that can't be denied: If Martin or Tyndall had at least recruited a PG, Rick Barnes would probably have had 2-4 more wins this past year.
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It's possible, but I'll actually go to bat against Barnes on this one, Tyndall did have Rob Gray lined up and ready to be a Vol. Barnes and staff passed, for Turner, and hindsight is obviously 20/20, but if they'd have known Turner would sit out would they have snagged Gray? Impossible to know.

It's why you have to give coaches 3 years before really making a final judgment IMO, they look to build their own depth with their own guys most of the time. I think it's pretty clear that year 3 looks optimistic for the Baller Vols, the question is can they add the pieces for year 2 to look better.
 
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#90
#90
VolGee4 said:
Everyone's grades are subjective. You can guess each poster's grades before they even list them based on their known feelings about a coach.

I agree that based on some of these, it would have been virtually impossible for certain people to give Barnes a B or above. The talent he inherited was the worst I have seen in the 20 years that I have really been following the basketball team. Time to move on.
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The previous coach had to recruit many of his players bc 4 signees didn't show up. He left Barnes 2 very good recruits, who will pay dividends in years to come.
 
#91
#91
buzz4tennessee said:
The previous coach had to recruit many of his players bc 4 signees didn't show up. He left Barnes 2 very good recruits, who will pay dividends in years to come.
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You got your story a bit mixed up, the 4 signees wanted to be Vols, Tyndall was only interested in 1 of them. He also allowed 2 guys on the roster to leave, so in short he allowed 6 players who were set to be Vols, not be Vols, so I don't give much sympathy for him having to take a bunch of guys.
 
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#92
#92
bleedingTNorange said:
You got your story a bit mixed up, the 4 signees wanted to be Vols, Tyndall was only interested in 1 of them. He also allowed 2 guys on the roster to leave, so in short he allowed 6 players who were set to be Vols, not be Vols, so I don't give much sympathy for him having to take a bunch of guys.
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He must've had a good reason for not wanting the players, thereby creating a need to recruit most of those who matriculated here after receiving an offer. Carmichael came bc he wanted to follow Tyndall here, after buying into playing for Donnie at USM.

It will be interesting to see how the guys, who Barnes did not want, fair at their new schools starting next year.
 
#93
#93
buzz4tennessee said:
The previous coach had to recruit many of his players bc 4 signees didn't show up. He left Barnes 2 very good recruits, who will pay dividends in years to come.
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I wasn't necessarily directing the problem at any single person. Tyndall was a good coach, but the jury was still out a little with his recruiting.
 
#95
#95
buzz4tennessee said:
He must've had a good reason for not wanting the players, thereby creating a need to recruit most of those who matriculated here after receiving an offer. Carmichael came bc he wanted to follow Tyndall here, after buying into playing for Donnie at USM.

It will be interesting to see how the guys, who Barnes did not want, fair at their new schools starting next year.
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Most coaches typically want their own guys, I don't blame Tyndall for wanting that, I was simply pointing out that your "4 signees didn't show up" comment was pretty incorrect.
 
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#97
#97
bleedingTNorange said:
It's possible, but I'll actually go to bat against Barnes on this one, Tyndall did have Rob Gray lined up and ready to be a Vol. Barnes and staff passed, for Turner, and hindsight is obviously 20/20, but if they'd have known Turner would sit out would they have snagged Gray? Impossible to know.

It's why you have to give coaches 3 years before really making a final judgment IMO, they look to build their own depth with their own guys most of the time. I think it's pretty clear that year 3 looks optimistic for the Baller Vols, the question is can they add the pieces for year 2 to look better.
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Don't recall specifics, but recruiting someone on your way out is not ideal. Just as you say that Tyndall didn't want to retain certain players, Barnes didn't as well. If Tyndall had recruited an average PG when he got to UT, then I still think this past season would have resulted in more wins. Puts Punter off the ball.

Can't believe it's been 5 years since we have had a PG. We have had to play Trae, Barton, JRich, and Punter at PG. None of them are PG. Looking forward to seeing a real PG next year.
 
#98
#98
bleedingTNorange said:
Got a link to the predictions thread for last year, very curious to see how many 12&13 game predictions there were which is what you're claiming.
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You asked my opinion


Last year I expected to be below .500 by a game or 2.

Thus why I gave a c+

This year I expected 16 wins. We got 13 thus why I gave a D.


If you want to find others opinions have it.
 
#99
#99
bleedingTNorange said:
Most coaches typically want their own guys, I don't blame Tyndall for wanting that, I was simply pointing out that your "4 signees didn't show up" comment was pretty incorrect.
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I get the impression that your ego needs propping up when you try to put down someone, rather than sticking to the subject. This is sad!
 
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#100
#100
BruinVol said:
You asked my opinion


Last year I expected to be below .500 by a game or 2.

Thus why I gave a c+

This year I expected 16 wins. We got 13 thus why I gave a D.


If you want to find others opinions have it.
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How funny, you dictated Barnes expectations by providing us with the numbers from the prediction thread, yet when it comes to Tyndall only your opinion counts and not that same thread, I wonder why?

I do also think it's quite funny that with a lesser roster you predicted more wins than you did last season, I'm doubting you predicted 13 wins last year for Tyndall prior to the first game, but I will definitely go look for it when I get some time.
 
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