RIP Phil Valentine

#529
#529
clarksvol00 said:
I was just about to renew my suggestion that a separate "ND40 argues with EL" thread be established.
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Oh no you don’t champ. I’m late to this one she’s been spewing this same stupidity to several others with similar results before I ever piled on. Move along now.
 
#532
#532
It's sad that Valentine died. It's even sadder he died because of hate and ignorance. He's the perfect example of how our great Lord doesn't protect stupidity and ignorance. It wasn't his time to vanish. He was too young
 
#533
#533
Tyler Durden said:
So you don't know from first hand knowledge. You know from second hand knowledge at best, but more than likely an assumption.
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We do know first hand, you just refuse to accept facts. You know what a code silver is and why we have security cameras in our waiting rooms? Visitors do stupid things, they bring guns, they get emotional, they do anything they can to get onto a locked unit and they actually bring alcohol and drugs to pts. They assault nurses. That’s one of the first numbers you learn as a nurse.. It’s why security rounds our units in this area 2-3 times a night.
I know, all that’s highly conspiratorial. I’m sure there are some security people on here to ease your troubled mind that my conspiratorial claims aren’t propaganda.
 
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#535
#535
USAFgolferVol said:
It's sad that Valentine died. It's even sadder he died because of hate and ignorance. He's the perfect example of how our great Lord doesn't protect stupidity and ignorance. It wasn't his time to vanish. He was too young
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It’s just a sad and harsh example that we will each own our own choices in this. That’s it. He apparently regretted his choice and made an appeal to his audience. There’s no reason for the over zealous pro vax crowd to find any satisfaction in this. Just like there’s no reason for the anti vax crowd to find validation in a vaccinated person getting ill or even dying.

It’s just a poignant example of how we each own our decisions in managing our own health thru this crazy ass time. No virus and Valentine is likely alive and talking to his audience today. But that wasn’t the hand the world was dealt.
 
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#536
#536
NurseGoodVol said:
We do know first hand, you just refuse to accept facts. You know what a code silver is and why we have security cameras in our waiting rooms? Visitors do stupid things, they bring guns, they get emotional, they do anything they can to get onto a locked unit and they actually bring alcohol and drugs to pts. They assault nurses. That’s one of the first numbers you learn as a nurse.. It’s why security rounds our units in this area 2-3 times a night.
I know, all that’s highly conspiratorial. I’m sure there are some security people on here to ease your troubled mind that my conspiratorial claims aren’t propaganda.
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You do not have first hand knowledge here, both you and Ricky have said as much in this very thread. I don't think either of you have a clue what first hand means, it's obvious.

I'm glad you know certain security protocols to protect yourself from violent visitors, but that doesn't mean you know more about Phil Valentine's final weeks, days, hours, and seconds than his family that was with him during that time.
 
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#537
#537
bamawriter said:
It depends on the situation. In your Dahmer's parents example you're correct. C (the murders) would not have happened if A (Dahmer being conceived) had not occurred. But C is not the fault of A. But that's because B (Dahmer) is a living, sentient being who was responsible for his own actions. A did not cause B to do C.

But in this case B is not a sentient being with the ability to make its own decisions. And the Chinese bear responsibility not just for the lab leak but for an egregious failure to act when the disease began spreading. The Chinese are not Dahmer's parents having brought this being into the world with no way of knowing the danger it would present decades later. They knew how serious this bug could be and they failed to act when it escaped.

That does not absolve any other government for their subsequent failures, and it doesn't absolve any individual who doesn't take responsibility for his own safety and how his actions might affect others.
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If the lab leaked had not occured, there would be no pandemic. In other words, but for the lab leak, no pandemic. We agree on that. Let me show you why you can't immediately move from "but for" causation to fault.

Suppose patient zero comes home from the Wuhan lab on Friday night. He has not infected anyone else at this time. He's starting to get some body aches and just wants to stay home, especially given the nature of his work. His wife comes home. It's her birthday. She begs and pleads with him to go out that evening. Reluctantly, he consents, but he would not have if she had not insisted so much. He goes out and sets off a string of infections. He comes home feeling even worse and self-isolates until the infection passes.

By hypothesis, if his wife hadn't cajoled him, he would have stayed home, self-isolated, and never set off what became a global pandemic. So his wife's actions are just as much a but-for cause of the pandemic.

If all we're relying on is but-for causation to determine fault, his wife is just as much at fault for the pandemic as his own negligent lab leak is. But most of us, I think, would not say the pandemic is her fault. This means but-for causation is not sufficient for fault.
 
#538
#538
evillawyer said:
If the lab leaked had not occured, there would be no pandemic. In other words, but for the lab leak, no pandemic. We agree on that. Let me show you why you can't immediately move from "but for" causation to fault.

Suppose patient zero comes home from the Wuhan lab on Friday night. He has not infected anyone else at this time. He's starting to get some body aches and just wants to stay home, especially given the nature of his work. His wife comes home. It's her birthday. She begs and pleads with him to go out that evening. Reluctantly, he consents, but he would not have if she had not insisted so much. He goes out and sets off a string of infections. He comes home feeling even worse and self-isolates until the infection passes.

By hypothesis, if his wife hadn't cajoled him, he would have stayed home, self-isolated, and never set off what became a global pandemic. So his wife's actions are just as much a but-for cause of the pandemic.

If all we're relying on is but-for causation to determine fault, his wife is just as much at fault for the pandemic as his own negligent lab leak is. But most of us, I think, would not say the pandemic is her fault. This means but-for causation is not sufficient for fault.
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Nobody cares because the lab leak resulted in the pandemic cat turd 🤡
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#541
#541
clarksvol00 said:
I'm gonna stick my nose in where it doesn't belong. He wasn't literally on his deathbed when his family made these statements. See my earlier post. The family statement was over three weeks ago. At the time he allegedly told his family this, he wasn't on a ventilator. I'm not sure he was even at a hospital at the time. You and @Tyler Durden are arguing over an incorrect assumption.
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I think I may have already addressed what my contention with Tyler was. It wasn’t Phil Valentines changing his stance on the vaccine when he was ill. I believe he did. It was tylers volume on hyperbolic statements that I know aren’t true and then tripling down when I point out the problematic statements.
 
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#542
#542
Tyler Durden said:
You do not have first hand knowledge here, both you and Ricky have said as much in this very thread. I don't think either of you have a clue what first hand means, it's obvious.

I'm glad you know certain security protocols to protect yourself from violent visitors, but that doesn't mean you know more about Phil Valentine's final weeks, days, hours, and seconds than his family that was with him during that time.
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you repeated statements that weren’t fact driven and it bothers you not at all? Check. Wash rinse repeat.
 
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#543
#543
NurseGoodVol said:
I think I may have already addressed what my contention with Tyler was. It wasn’t Phil Valentines changing his stance on the vaccine when he was ill. I believe he did. It was tylers volume on hyperbolic statements that I know aren’t true and then tripling down when I point out the problematic statements.
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The "at his bedside 14 hours a day" could be hyperbolic, but that appears to be plausible if he was at home in bed for a time. Obviously he wasn't on his deathbed when he said this, but otherwise I must have missed the hyperbolic statements. I dont know, i just haven't seen anything that would call into question the family's veracity.
 
#545
#545
Rickyvol77 said:
I can tell you from first hand knowledge that the family wasn’t by his bedside 14 hours a day
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Has your facility gone to the 21 day rule yet for ventilated covid? That’s where it’s trending. They stop testing and remove them from isolation at the 21 day mark regardless of the last test date and positive result if they are ventilated. I’ve seen people test positive for over 60 days throughout this last 17 months.
 
#546
#546
clarksvol00 said:
The "at his bedside 14 hours a day" could be hyperbolic, but that appears to be plausible if he was at home in bed for a time. Obviously he wasn't on his deathbed when he said this, but otherwise I must have missed the hyperbolic statements. I dont know, i just haven't seen anything that would call into question the family's veracity.
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Let me find the article and I’ll post it.
 
#547
#547
NurseGoodVol said:
Let me find the article and I’ll post it.
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I assumed this started with the video and Tyler's comment at post #203. I didn't see much problem with the video. It basically was the brother saying that Valentine had changed his mind about the vaccine. Doesnt say at what point.
 
#548
#548
evillawyer said:
Let's assume it was a lab leak. If the lab leak hadn't occured, there would be no pandemic. That's true. But it does not follow that the lab leak, or even the Chinese, caused the pandemic.

Consider: If Jeffrey Dahmer hadn't been born, his victims wouldn't have been eaten. It doesn't follow that the cause of those people being eaten was Jeffrey Dahmer's parents having sex.
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What type of weed have you been smoking? Must be some dank azz ganja for sure.
 
#549
#549
clarksvol00 said:
I assumed this started with the video and Tyler's comment at post #203. I didn't see much problem with the video. It basically was the brother saying that Valentine had changed his mind about the vaccine. Doesnt say at what point.
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That was never a point of contention for me. See post 203.
 
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