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#1,926
#1,926
PKT_VOL said:
Trump was the most polarizing political figure in modern American history.

No one voted for Biden. They were simply votes against Trump. I know many people who normal abstain from voting who voted in 2020 to cast their referendum on Trump (for and against). People forget that Trump received more than 11.2 million more votes in 2020 than 2016.
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Wrong .. Hillary was . She had it gifted , wrapped , signed , sealed , and tied up with a bow on top . She was so polarizing that Trump beat her out for POTUS .
 
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#1,928
#1,928
0nelilreb said:
Wrong .. Hillary was . She had it gifted , wrapped , signed , sealed , and tied up with a bow on top . She was so polarizing that Trump beat her out for POTUS .
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That is not what polarizing means.

Plenty of people voted for Trump or for Hillary in 2016. The difference in votes between the 2012 election and 2016 election was negligible.

Nobody voted for Biden in 2020. There were staggering record votes for and against Trump.
 
#1,929
#1,929
PKT_VOL said:
That is not what polarizing means.

Plenty of people voted for Trump or for Hillary in 2016. The difference in votes between the 2012 election and 2016 election was negligible.

Nobody voted for Biden in 2020. There were staggering record votes for and against Trump.
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You have been pretty spot on until this. There were a few million that did vote for Biden.
 
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#1,930
#1,930
PKT_VOL said:
Trump was the most polarizing political figure in modern American history.

No one voted for Biden. They were simply votes against Trump. I know many people who normal abstain from voting who voted in 2020 to cast their referendum on Trump (for and against). People forget that Trump received more than 11.2 million more votes in 2020 than 2016.
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I haven't, but I still don't believe 81 million people voted for that potato either.
 
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#1,931
#1,931
PKT_VOL said:
That is not what polarizing means.

Plenty of people voted for Trump or for Hillary in 2016. The difference in votes between the 2012 election and 2016 election was negligible.

Nobody voted for Biden in 2020. There were staggering record votes for and against Trump.
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She the definition of a politically polarizing person . She’s so polarizing that she had to had bill go with her a lot of times just to try and soften the edges so people could tolerate her .
 
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#1,934
#1,934
kiddiedoc said:
View attachment 451308
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That is the whole point that I think. LG, Luther, and several others totally miss. They are (understandibly) devoted to a party that unfortunately no longer exists The progressive myth that it i somehow the political right that has went all extreme when it really hasn’t budged. The perceived distance is almost entirely crazed Sprint further and further left by the Dems
 
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#1,935
#1,935
OrangeTsar said:
That is the whole point that I think. LG, Luther, and several others totally miss. They are (understandibly) devoted to a party that unfortunately no longer exists The progressive myth that it i somehow the political right that has went all extreme when it really hasn’t budged. The perceived distance is almost entirely crazed Sprint further and further left by the Dems
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And they're shifting the public "window" day by day. The latest Disney BS is the easiest example.

I used to be somewhat left-sympathetic, I'll say. But the older I've gotten and the more I have watched liberal policies literally destroy the livelihoods of people around me (locally) the more I realize that leftism is a moral failure, a political failure, and a fiscal failure. I haven't moved too much rightward, but I'm basically an alt-right neo-nazi to these people now.
 
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#1,937
#1,937
ButchPlz said:
And they're shifting the public "window" day by day. The latest Disney BS is the easiest example.

I used to be somewhat left-sympathetic, I'll say. But the older I've gotten and the more I have watched liberal policies literally destroy the livelihoods of people around me (locally) the more I realize that leftism is a moral failure, a political failure, and a fiscal failure. I haven't moved too much rightward, but I'm basically an alt-right neo-nazi to these people now.
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Same.
 
#1,938
#1,938
kiddiedoc said:
View attachment 451308
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Conservatives have changed a great deal in the last 13 years, in my view. They went way further right on immigration. They went further right on the police state. They barely even pretend to be for limited government anymore. They're not willing to swallow any and every war (which is good) anymore. I mean, look at gay rights. It went from a big issue to something that isn't really even discussed anymore. The expressed attitudes have completely changed. These are dramatic changes.
 
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#1,939
#1,939
ButchPlz said:
And they're shifting the public "window" day by day. The latest Disney BS is the easiest example.

I used to be somewhat left-sympathetic, I'll say. But the older I've gotten and the more I have watched liberal policies literally destroy the livelihoods of people around me (locally) the more I realize that leftism is a moral failure, a political failure, and a fiscal failure. I haven't moved too much rightward, but I'm basically an alt-right neo-nazi to these people now.
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Many of us have moved slightly further right as we have aged. In our younger days we felt totally justified loathing and anger at the injustice and unfairness of Life and our natural response was that „someone ought to do something“. In our naivety that someone was obviously „government“. Age and bitter experience brought disillusionment and the Cold realization that government is ran by people just as fallible and corrupt as all the other people already making life unkind unfair. And with people like that in charge of government, it becomes impossible to escape or undo their corruption because they only get replaced by similar creatures. In the words of the Great political philosopher Roger Daltry „Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss“. Power always corrupts. It makes no difference of that power is held by a corporate tycoon or a Government minister. But t least with business you can sometimes go elsewhere. CS Lewis Said it best
382C226F-FF35-4D07-BC62-46EAEFED8EF9.jpeg
 
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#1,940
#1,940
n_huffhines said:
Conservatives have changed a great deal in the last 13 years, in my view. For example, they barely even pretend to be for limited government (bad) anymore. They're not willing to swallow any and every war (good) anymore. I mean, these are dramatic changes.
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Conservatives in DC were NEVER for limited government no matter what they Said. Control of the government coffers is a temptation too strong for any denizen of government
 
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#1,942
#1,942
OrangeTsar said:
Conservatives in DC were NEVER for limited government no matter what they Said. Control of the government coffers is a temptation too strong for any denizen of government
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OK, but we're talking about the median/average conservative, like in the graphic. We're not talking about politicians.
 
#1,943
#1,943
OrangeTsar said:
Many of us have moved slightly further right as we have aged. In our younger days we felt totally justified loathing and anger at the injustice and unfairness of Life and our natural response was that „someone ought to do something“. In our naivety that someone was obviously „government“. Age and bitter experience brought disillusionment and the Cold realization that government is ran by people just as fallible and corrupt as all the other people already making life unkind unfair. And with people like that in charge of government, it becomes impossible to escape or undo their corruption because they only get replaced by similar creatures. In the words of the Great political philosopher Roger Daltry „Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss“. Power always corrupts. It makes no difference of that power is held by a corporate tycoon or a Government minister. But t least with business you can sometimes go elsewhere. CS Lewis Said it best
View attachment 451343
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My turning point came when I realized just how much power I actually have over myself. It doesn't even take "guts" to be successful, just the motivation to 1) do the dang job, and 2) step into the endless voids the terrified people leave open.
 
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#1,944
#1,944
n_huffhines said:
Conservatives have changed a great deal in the last 13 years, in my view. They went way further right on immigration. They went further right on the police state. They barely even pretend to be for limited government anymore. They're not willing to swallow any and every war (which is good) anymore. I mean, look at gay rights. It went from a big issue to something that isn't really even discussed anymore. The expressed attitudes have completely changed. These are dramatic changes.
Click to expand...

Agree with a lot here and in some cases there’s no real discernible difference between, I’ll say R’s (not necessarily Conservatives) and D’s. Wrt to immigration, I think conservatives were seeing the simple disregard for our immigration laws and the Left comes across as even encouraging it. The resulting move to the right on the issue was as much a response to those disregarding the laws already in place, so it looks like a lurch to the right using blunt force (Wall) policy. The chaos on our Southern border should not be taking place and no party should want that. The selective ignorance by our govt of any particular law, or set of laws and the enforcement of those laws, is a slippery slope.

Police State, agree especially when we see how the Patriot Act has morphed into seemingly unbridled power for three letter agencies. It ended up being the springboard to use all the latest and greatest technology against its citizens. I doubt there’s any will to ever roll this back.

Agree that the very few Republicans (in congress anyway) are committed to limited govt. I do still think there are Conservatives that are committed, but they are outnumbered by RINOs. The average conservative citizens is very much opposed to the unabated growth in govt. and it’s involvement in our lives. However, The Nanny state, and all that entails, is a powerful thing. Take away or cut back someone’s govt cheese, and they vote you out and replace you with the guy/gal that promises to give it back. Govt keeps on growing. We are our own worst enemy by doing so. Just my observation.
 
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