Rob Neyer Article Comparing Pence and Bourn

#76
#76
govols120 said:
Or maybe - just maybe - the Braves got a good deal, certainly better than having to give up a top prospect.
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The Braves got a good deal because no one offered Houston anything of substance for him. That is pretty telling of his perceived value.
 
#77
#77
GahLee said:
In limited at-bats, I never said that he was going to be great but then again niether is Bourn.

That's my point, you guys are giving him too much love, he is an average baseball player.
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I never said he was an MVP candidate. I'm just responding to the argument you are making that a guy hitting .300 and leading the NL in SB is comparable to a guy on the DL that hasn't topped .240 in his brief career.
 
#78
#78
MaehlMan said:
This times a million.

We haven't exactly been trotting out Rickey Henderson or Tim Raines in our leadoff spot since Furcal's departure. More like Gregor Blanco, Melky Cabrera, and Jordan Schafer. We're entitled to be excited about acquiring a guy that will actually do a decent job, in all likelihood.
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Getting Melky Cabrera back would have been a better deal.
 
#80
#80
MaehlMan said:
This times a million.

We haven't exactly been trotting out Rickey Henderson or Tim Raines in our leadoff spot since Furcal's departure. More like Gregor Blanco, Melky Cabrera, and Jordan Schafer. We're entitled to be excited about acquiring a guy that will actually do a decent job, in all likelihood.
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But will decent output from Bourn really make a difference?
 
#81
#81
hatvol96 said:
You've obviously deluded yourself into thinking I care what some snotnosed kid who worships a stadium he's never set foot in thinks.
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Snotnosed kid? I'm actually a pretty nice person who just dislikes people who are as rude as you are sometimes.

I understand that you're a knowledgeable poster, and I do agree with much of what you have to say, but is the rudeness really necessary? You can disagree without being so...mean about it.
 
#82
#82
hatvol96 said:
Nah, the Braves obviously outwitted the rest of baseball by getting Houston to take their package.
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Even if they traded a can of Coke and some dirty socks for him, I don't see how he is going to suddenly be better than what he has been his whole career, which is an average lead-off hitter.
 
#84
#84
MaehlMan said:
Snotnosed kid? I'm actually a pretty nice person who just dislikes people who are as rude as you are sometimes.

I understand that you're a knowledgeable poster, and I do agree with much of what you have to say, but is the rudeness really necessary? You can disagree without being so...mean about it.
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Good. If someone of your ilk did like me, I'd be terribly concerned.
 
#85
#85
GahLee said:
Even if they traded a can of Coke and some dirty socks for him, I don't see how he is going to suddenly be better than what he has been his whole career, which is an average lead-off hitter.
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How many times do we have to keep posting this? "Average leadoff hitter" is a marked improvement over what the Braves have been trotting out there.
 
#86
#86
MaehlMan said:
Snotnosed kid? I'm actually a pretty nice person who just dislikes people who are as rude as you are sometimes.

I understand that you're a knowledgeable poster, and I do agree with much of what you have to say, but is the rudeness really necessary? You can disagree without being so...mean about it.
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Change snotnosed, to uber sensitive.
 
#88
#88
GAVol said:
How many times do we have to keep posting this? "Average leadoff hitter" is a marked improvement over what the Braves have been trotting out there.
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How big of a difference can an average lead-off possibly have for your team?
 
#90
#90
govols120 said:
Yes, getting a guy who's sucked his entire career outside of 2011 rather than a consistently above-average (if I must) Bourn would be better.
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Melky Cabrera's career numbers are much better than Bourn's and he is having a breakout year.
 
#91
#91
GahLee said:
Even if they traded a can of Coke and some dirty socks for him, I don't see how he is going to suddenly be better than what he has been his whole career, which is an average lead-off hitter.
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Wait til he's playing in games that matter and not getting two presssure free at bats a night when his team is down 5 runs. Let's see what those numbers look like then.
 
#94
#94
vols kick balls said:
Melky Cabrera's career numbers are much better than Bourn's
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Bourn is far superior to Cabrera in the field and while Melky brings power into the equation at times, Bourn's OBP is better and the advanced stats/metrics/whatever side with Bourn as well. Bourn simply creates more run opportunities with his great speed and solid OBP.
 
#95
#95
GAVol said:
How many times do we have to keep posting this? "Average leadoff hitter" is a marked improvement over what the Braves have been trotting out there.
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That's all I've been trying to say. Maybe his "value" to the Braves is higher than it is to the rest of the teams in baseball...whatever. I don't really care if Brian Cashman or any other GM thinks we got a good deal or not. If he's productive in the leadoff spot and continues to swipe bags at will, it's a marked upgrade.
 
#98
#98
hatvol96 said:
That would be the Ed Wade who assembled the core of players in Philadelphia that has been kicking the NL East's teeth in for a few years now, right?
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Or the one who has the Astros in free fall mode.

EDIT: When someone has the resources the Phils gave him it is easy to assemble one of the best teams in baseball. We will see how great he is now that he runs the show in Houston. So far, not impressed.
 
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#99
#99
govols120 said:
Bourn is far superior to Cabrera in the field and while Melky brings power into the equation at times, Bourn's OBP is better and the advanced stats/metrics/whatever side with Bourn as well. Bourn simply creates more run opportunities with his great speed and solid OBP.
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Melky's career OBP is 7 points lower than Bourn's. Neither are good OBP guys. I'll sacrifice those 7 points for the difference in slugging.

Bourn is better defensively. No argument there.
 
#100
#100
hatvol96 said:
That would be the Ed Wade who assembled the core of players in Philadelphia that has been kicking the NL East's teeth in for a few years now, right?
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It's about time someone gives that guy a little respect. Howard, Utley, and Hamels are key cogs that Wade -- and Ruben Amaro, Jr. -- brought into the majors the right way.

I can't say the same for how he handled the Placido Palanco trade or moving Vincente Padilla too soon, or the underwhelming Gavin Floyd... but for the key pieces of the Phils you have to give some credit to Wade.

(And then, major kudos to Pat Gillick and Charlie Manuel for solidifying the whole thing).
 
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