Ron Paul Can't Win

#676
#676
MG1968 said:
right, as a veteran, I hate the Constitution. You just provided the perfect example of why I don't like many RP supporters, because if you're not on board with Ron Paul, then you're a freedom hating douchebag.

get over yourselves
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Just curious, but what does being a veteran have to do with loving/hating the constitution? George Washington was a commissioned officer in the British army and he led the colonial army.

Some Ron Paul supporters are blind to his flaws. I happen to agree with about 80% of his policy views, which is a lot more than most candidates. However, there are a few things about him that give me pause.

I think what brings on some of the comments from RPS (ron paul supporters) is that many of the issues that the typical GOPer attack him on are his stands against unconstitutional actions/laws/wars/depts, etc. Consider, if RP takes the constitutional stance on an issue, and if someone attacks his stance, then that person must be disagreeing with the constitution. I think for a lot of us, or at least me, we are not so much huge RPS as we are believers in small, constitutional government. I am for any candidate that stands for that.
 
#677
#677
RespectTradition said:
Just curious, but what does being a veteran have to do with loving/hating the constitution? George Washington was a commissioned officer in the British army and he led the colonial army.

Some Ron Paul supporters are blind to his flaws. I happen to agree with about 80% of his policy views, which is a lot more than most candidates. However, there are a few things about him that give me pause.

I think what brings on some of the comments from RPS (ron paul supporters) is that many of the issues that the typical GOPer attack him on are his stands against unconstitutional actions/laws/wars/depts, etc. Consider, if RP takes the constitutional stance on an issue, and if someone attacks his stance, then that person must be disagreeing with the constitution. I think for a lot of us, or at least me, we are not so much huge RPS as we are believers in small, constitutional government. I am for any candidate that stands for that.
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^^^This^^^
 
#678
#678
RespectTradition said:
Just curious, but what does being a veteran have to do with loving/hating the constitution?
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many of us who are veterans/currently enlisted take our vow to protect and defend the Constitution seriously

my issues with RP have nothing to do with his standing on Constitutional grounds to reject legislation or speak out against military intervention.
 
#679
#679
MG1968 said:
many of us who are veterans/currently enlisted take our vow to protect and defend the Constitution seriously

my issues with RP have nothing to do with his standing on Constitutional grounds to reject legislation or speak out against military intervention.
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I'm gonna start a new thread to explore some of these ideas rather than derail this one.
 
#680
#680
RespectTradition said:
Just curious, but what does being a veteran have to do with loving/hating the constitution? George Washington was a commissioned officer in the British army and he led the colonial army.

Some Ron Paul supporters are blind to his flaws. I happen to agree with about 80% of his policy views, which is a lot more than most candidates. However, there are a few things about him that give me pause.

I think what brings on some of the comments from RPS (ron paul supporters) is that many of the issues that the typical GOPer attack him on are his stands against unconstitutional actions/laws/wars/depts, etc. Consider, if RP takes the constitutional stance on an issue, and if someone attacks his stance, then that person must be disagreeing with the constitution. I think for a lot of us, or at least me, we are not so much huge RPS as we are believers in small, constitutional government. I am for any candidate that stands for that.
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Is there anyone that doesn't think the constitution is on their side?
 
#682
#682
MG1968 said:
right, as a veteran, I hate the Constitution. You just provided the perfect example of why I don't like many RP supporters, because if you're not on board with Ron Paul, then you're a freedom hating douchebag.

get over yourselves
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The weird thing about RP supporters is that like all political constituents, they don't like to be insulted. Maybe he attacked you because you said this:

The problem with RP is his sycophantic supporters. Thin-skinned as Obama fans and as obnoxious as OWS protesters defecating on police cars. They act as if RP is the second coming of Christ and will not tolerate any criticism of their messiah.
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#683
#683
nbakerld said:
The weird thing about RP supporters is that like all political constituents, they don't like to be insulted. Maybe he attacked you because you said this:
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Yeah, but you hear that criticism all the time. Maybe it's because Paul has an inordinate amount of support from younger voters, but there's no doubt that there's a segment of his support that tends to not play well with others. I know a lot of people that actually like some elements of RP but are completely turned off by some of his supporters.
 
#684
#684
GAVol said:


Yeah, but you hear that criticism all the time. Maybe it's because Paul has an inordinate amount of support from younger voters, but there's no doubt that there's a segment of his support that tends to not play well with others. I know a lot of people that actually like some elements of RP but are completely turned off by some of his supporters.
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I would say we come across as know-it-alls, and that's the crux of the issue. There are very few Ron Paul supporters that don't know their stuff....you'll find a lot of Romney supporters that don't know crap about crap. We RP supporters scoff at that and that is where the perceived arrogance comes from.

Romney has constituents who do know their stuff, but it's just not as common. As you can imagine, we are frustrated by being labeled "crazy" by the same people we consider to be politically illiterate. We sometimes lash out.
 
#685
#685
nbakerld said:
I would say we come across as know-it-alls, and that's the crux of the issue. There are very few Ron Paul supporters that don't know their stuff....you'll find a lot of Romney supporters that don't know crap about crap. We RP supporters scoff at that and that is where the perceived arrogance comes from.

Romney has constituents who do know their stuff, but it's just not as common. As you can imagine, we are frustrated by being labeled "crazy" by the same people we consider to be politically illiterate. We sometimes lash out.
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You just inadvertently proved my point.

You seem to be a very intelligent guy, but I hate to break it to you . . . Ron Paul supporters as a whole aren't any smarter than anyone.

People are fine with a differing point of view. Being lectured to and talked down to . . . Not so much.
 
#686
#686
GAVol said:


Yeah, but you hear that criticism all the time. Maybe it's because Paul has an inordinate amount of support from younger voters, but there's no doubt that there's a segment of his support that tends to not play well with others. I know a lot of people that actually like some elements of RP but are completely turned off by some of his supporters.
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So there are people out there that would allow their political decision to driven by their feelings about a candidates supporters and not based on what the candidate actually stands for? :unsure:

Could it be that maybe RP supporters are just excited for the first time in ages (or ever) about voting for a candidate?
 
#687
#687
Rasputin_Vol said:
So there are people out there that would allow their political decision to driven by their feelings about a candidates supporters and not based on what the candidate actually stands for? :unsure:
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for those that agree with most of his views, probably not. But for those on the fence, you bet.
 
#688
#688
GAVol said:
People are fine with a differing point of view. Being lectured to and talked down to . . . Not so much.
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This a probably a reaction to the mainstream media and others telling RP supporters that RP can't win and they should vote for someone because they are throwing their votes away. The constant pounding of that condescending rhetoric has to be countered by RP supporters.


Personally, I can't imagine making a decision about a candidate based on how I feel about that candidates supporters... unless they were engaged in violence and mayhem. I have yet to see any RP supporters defecating on police cars, destroying private property, or camping out in squalor.

Most are just passionate individuals from all walks of life (not just college students) that actually have a candidate they want to vote FOR as opposed to being satisfied with having someone to vote AGAINST.

But let me stop, because I don't want my comments to be taken as brow beating or pontificating.
 
#689
#689
GAVol said:
You just inadvertently proved my point.

You seem to be a very intelligent guy, but I hate to break it to you . . . Ron Paul supporters as a whole aren't any smarter than anyone.

People are fine with a differing point of view. Being lectured to and talked down to . . . Not so much.
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I never said they were smarter, I was saying they are better informed. And I'm willing to bet my life (not that we can put this to the test) that on average they are more informed. It's the nature of the beast. It's very rare for a libertarian to become a libertarian without hours and hours of careful study.
 
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#690
#690
GAVol said:
for those that agree with most of his views, probably not. But for those on the fence, you bet.
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I would argue that they aren't people Paul would have been able to count on anyways. Even if they were able to be flipped for the primaries, they would have possibly flipped by November.
 
#691
#691
nbakerld said:
I never said they were smarter, I was saying they are better informed. And I'm willing to bet my life (not that we can put this to the test) that on average they are more informed.
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I can't say more informed. There are some pretty smart Romney/Newt voters out there. I would just say that they are more open to not just settling on the lesser of 2 evils or settling for whoever the GOP big wigs tells us is the best option.

Not more informed... just more desperate for change and breaking up the status quo.
 
#692
#692
Rasputin_Vol said:
I can't say more informed. There are some pretty smart Romney/Newt voters out there. I would just say that they are more open to not just settling on the lesser of 2 evils or settling for whoever the GOP big wigs tells us is the best option.

Not more informed... just more desperate for change and breaking up the status quo.
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Definitely more informed. There is no question in my mind, because of the sampling bias presented by the characteristics of libertarianism.

Like you said there are some smart Romney supporters. Maybe the smartest people in the world are Romney supporters. I don't know. But on average, I'm saying that isn't the case. With so many people choosing Republicanism simply because it agrees more with their faith, or because their parents were Republicans you are going to have a lot that aren't informed at all. You don't see a lot of 2nd generation libertarians. Also, it's a contrarian viewpoint. In the face of so much opposition, we are forced to know our stuff. Think about being an activist Republican in San Francisco....it forces you to step up your game. People largely arrive at libertarianism through study.
 
#694
#694
nbakerld said:
I would say we come across as know-it-alls, and that's the crux of the issue. There are very few Ron Paul supporters that don't know their stuff....you'll find a lot of Romney supporters that don't know crap about crap. We RP supporters scoff at that and that is where the perceived arrogance comes from.

Romney has constituents who do know their stuff, but it's just not as common. As you can imagine, we are frustrated by being labeled "crazy" by the same people we consider to be politically illiterate. We sometimes lash out.
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RP supporters come off as uneducated, racists spambots who just found the internet at the local library.

Romney supporters are upper middle class, college grad, suburbanites. Sorry if they arent on the internet 24/7 bashing other candidates because they are too busy working and raising a family.

The 2012 POTUS election will be determined by that demographic. If Romney wins N. VA and the suburbs of Philly/Pittsburgh, he wins the overall election in a landslide
 
#695
#695
nbakerld said:
Definitely more informed. There is no question in my mind, because of the sampling bias presented by the characteristics of libertarianism.

Like you said there are some smart Romney supporters. Maybe the smartest people in the world are Romney supporters. I don't know. But on average, I'm saying that isn't the case. With so many people choosing Republicanism simply because it agrees more with their faith, or because their parents were Republicans you are going to have a lot that aren't informed at all. You don't see a lot of 2nd generation libertarians. Also, it's a contrarian viewpoint. In the face of so much opposition, we are forced to know our stuff. Think about being an activist Republican in San Francisco....it forces you to step up your game. People largely arrive at libertarianism through study.
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Please, tons are college kids are Paul supporters because he wants to legalize weed and stick it to the man (government). Libertarianism appeals to every adolescent who doesn't like being told what to do.
 
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#697
#697
Racist? That's the greatest post of 2012, so far. Congrats.

Romney supporters are for banning cell phones while driving. They also love government mandated health care. They love out of touch rich guys. They love cosmetic politicians with no substance. They love wishy-washy flip-floppers. Also, they hate being on the internet 24/7 bashing other candidates, but at least they are apologetic about it.
 
#699
#699
The pollsters who use robo-calling are not allowed, by law, to call cell phones. Many people, myself included, have abandoned land lines because there is no need for the expense and just use a cell as my home number. Generally speaking, the pundits believe that the polls therefore understate the younger voters, and overstate the older voters, who still might tend to have a land line.

A pollster who manually dials can call a cell phone. Example of pollster who uses robo-caller is Rasmussen. One that does not is Marist.

Comment yesterday was that this may mean that Paul has more support than is reflected in atleast some of the polls because he appeals so much to young people.

I suspect this is true, but also think that it would be more true if the first voting was in a more metropolitan-based environment, like a New York or something along those lines.

Another interesting point is that recent polls show 41 percent of the Iowa voters still hadn't made up their minds as of this past weekend.

I find that remarkable given the extraordinary amount of money and time the candidates have spent there this election cycle. I think that is also disturbing news for Romney, who just cannot seem to break above 25 percent, no matter who rises and falls next to him. There is a major enthusiasm gap for him.

Last comment is that the traditional notion is that there are three tickets out of Iowa. And this year that would apparently mean Paul, Romney, and Santorum, in no particular order. But comment over the weekend is that Gingrich and Bachmann will definitely continue and try to make a stand in South Carolina. Huntsman has just faded to nothingness, unfortunately.

So at least five will march on.
 
#700
#700
nbakerld said:
Racist? That's the greatest post of 2012, so far. Congrats.

Romney supporters are for banning cell phones while driving. They also love government mandated health care. They love out of touch rich guys. They love cosmetic politicians with no substance. They love wishy-washy flip-floppers. Also, they hate being on the internet 24/7 bashing other candidates, but at least they are apologetic about it.
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Go pull up Romney Facebook page. Its full of racist RP rants. Its really sad
 
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