Russia Blocks Kerch Strait

#376
#376
Pacer92 said:
This was known and reported on the Russian side from the onset....planes were dispatched during the event..
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Yeah we knew there were flying overhead but there were never any word saying they fired weapons. It was reported at first only the Russian ships fired.
 
#377
#377
05_never_again said:
You're arguing, but agreeing with me. I said there are American oligarchs. They are involved in a corruption campaign to advance American interests, the Russians are involved in a corruption campaign to advance their interests.
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I agree with 90% of it, yes...

The point I’m arguing is that the biggest and most powerful lobby in Russia isn’t AIPAC...a lobby so powerful that it basically calls the shots on our foreign policy in the ME, if not all over the globe...
 
#378
#378
Pacer92 said:
I agree with 90% of it, yes...

The point I’m arguing is that the biggest and most powerful lobby in Russia isn’t AIPAC...a lobby so powerful that it basically calls the shots on our foreign policy in the ME, if not all over the globe...
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AIPAC is a very powerful lobby that has influence. I'd argue that the Saudi lobby has just as much, if not more, influence over our foreign policy in the Middle East.
 
#379
#379
Burhead said:
Yeah we knew there were flying overhead but there were never any word saying they fired weapons. It was reported at first only the Russian ships fired.
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i had heard some helicopters did some of the shooting too.
 
#380
#380
Trump cancels his G20 meeting with Putin because refuses to release Ukrainian ships and sailors. Also the servicemen have been transferred from Crimea to a prison in Moscow.
 
#381
#381
Burhead said:
Trump cancels his G20 meeting with Putin because refuses to release Ukrainian ships and sailors. Also the servicemen have been transferred from Crimea to a prison in Moscow.
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I would love for the Russian apologists defend this.

if it was seriously just a case of not following protocol why such a big deal with the prisoners?
 
#383
#383
On Tuesday, however, a Ukrainian defense spokesman said the number of Russian battalion tactical groups “capable of carrying out combat missions” in Ukrainian territory had risen to 25.

“Since 2013, the Russian Federation has been modernizing its entire airfield network along the Ukrainian border, upgrading the fleet of combat aircraft, and expanding the capabilities of army aviation,” said Vadym Skibitsky, a spokesman for the Main Intelligence Directorate of the Ukrainian Defense Ministry, during a Tuesday press conference in Kyiv.

“About 500 combat aircraft of tactical aviation and up to 340 helicopters of army aviation have currently been deployed along the border with Ukraine,” Skibitsky said.

Moreover, inside the two breakaway territories in the Donbas, there are currently about 3,000 Russian soldiers embedded within a larger force of about 34,000 pro-Russian separatists, and foreign mercenaries.

Ukraine, for its part, has about 60,000 troops deployed to the eastern war zone with tens of thousands more deployed to its southern coastal regions, ready to rapidly defend its coastlines on the Sea of Azov and the Black Sea.
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Ukraine Braces for a Full-On Russian Invasion
 
#384
#384
On Tuesday, however, a Ukrainian defense spokesman said the number of Russian battalion tactical groups “capable of carrying out combat missions” in Ukrainian territory had risen to 25.

“Since 2013, the Russian Federation has been modernizing its entire airfield network along the Ukrainian border, upgrading the fleet of combat aircraft, and expanding the capabilities of army aviation,” said Vadym Skibitsky, a spokesman for the Main Intelligence Directorate of the Ukrainian Defense Ministry, during a Tuesday press conference in Kyiv.

“About 500 combat aircraft of tactical aviation and up to 340 helicopters of army aviation have currently been deployed along the border with Ukraine,” Skibitsky said.

Moreover, inside the two breakaway territories in the Donbas, there are currently about 3,000 Russian soldiers embedded within a larger force of about 34,000 pro-Russian separatists, and foreign mercenaries.

Ukraine, for its part, has about 60,000 troops deployed to the eastern war zone with tens of thousands more deployed to its southern coastal regions, ready to rapidly defend its coastlines on the Sea of Azov and the Black Sea.
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If you scroll through Nolan Peterson media feed he says in April there were 19 battalion-tactical groups on the border in April.

Ukraine Braces for a Full-On Russian Invasion
 
#385
#385
Burhead said:
Trump cancels his G20 meeting with Putin because refuses to release Ukrainian ships and sailors. Also the servicemen have been transferred from Crimea to a prison in Moscow.
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Where are you seeing that servicemen were transferred to a prison in Moscow?

Makes Trump look nutless if he thinks Russia is in the wrong...
 
#386
#386
 
#390
#390
Matt2496 said:
How could anyone defend Russia with a straight face?
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Try taking into consideration that there are two sides to every story....

It’s more complex than the simple-minded response of “Russia bad”, EVERY time....

The real truth usually lies in the middle somewhere...
 
#392
#392
Matt2496 said:
Two wrongs don't make it right.
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I never suggested it did. I'm just saying that the actions of other nations make sense when you put yourself in their shoes and try and see something from their perspective.

If the United States lost the Cold War and after the Cold War the Soviets continued adding nations closer and closer to the United States into a military alliance with them, we'd feel threatened too.
 
#393
#393
05_never_again said:
I never suggested it did. I'm just saying that the actions of other nations make sense when you put yourself in their shoes and try and see something from their perspective.

If the United States lost the Cold War and after the Cold War the Soviets continued adding nations closer and closer to the United States into a military alliance with them, we'd feel threatened too.
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russia.jpg
 
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#395
#395
05_never_again said:
NATO expanding to Russia's borders is not akin to Alaska and Russia being separated by the Bering Strait.

What if the Dominican Republic, then Nicaragua, then Guatemala, then Mexico, then Canada were added into an alliance with the Soviets?
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I'd say it sucks we lost. losing has consequences. Nations have the right to freely associate as they want. Its not like there aren't anti-US alliances out there. Russia/China being king amongst those, and I would say far more threatening than Mexico/Canada. then you have other non military alliances, BRICS and the such. its not like the whole world likes us and would show up to fight the '86 Bears with us.

also its not like adding the nations we have, or could potentially add would have Russia sea-locked (is that a term? trapped by the sea), like Mexico/Canada would have for us.
 
#396
#396
LouderVol said:
I'd say it sucks we lost. losing has consequences. Nations have the right to freely associate as they want. Its not like there aren't anti-US alliances out there. Russia/China being king amongst those, and I would say far more threatening than Mexico/Canada. then you have other non military alliances, BRICS and the such. its not like the whole world likes us and would show up to fight the '86 Bears with us.

also its not like adding the nations we have, or could potentially add would have Russia sea-locked (is that a term? trapped by the sea), like Mexico/Canada would have for us.
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Russia doesn't consider it a free association, especially in the case of Ukraine. That one hit really close to home, even more so than the Baltic states joining NATO. Yanukovych, a democratically-elected pro-Russian President, was overthrown in a NATO-fomented coup after he decided to do an economic deal with Russia instead of the EU.

There's a tendency we have to see "our" intentions as 100% pure and noble and "their" intentions as 100% evil, but that isn't the case. Foreign policy and geopolitics is amoral.
 
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#397
#397
05_never_again said:
Russia doesn't consider it a free association, especially in the case of Ukraine. That one hit really close to home, even more so than the Baltic states joining NATO. Yanukovych, a democratically-elected pro-Russian President, was overthrown in a NATO-fomented coup after he decided to do an economic deal with Russia instead of the EU.

There's a tendency we have to see "our" intentions as 100% pure and noble and "their" intentions as 100% evil, but that isn't the case. Foreign policy and geopolitics is amoral.
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oh I agree. I consider very little of what the US does to be moral. very very little. morality has very little if anything to do with geopolitics, it just doesn't belong.

Russia was playing the same game we were, they forced the issue paying off Yanukovych to quickly change his stance. they initiated the whole mess. it could have kept on status quo, but for whatever reason Russia suddenly felt they needed more control after 40ish years.
 
#400
#400
LouderVol said:
oh I agree. I consider very little of what the US does to be moral. very very little. morality has very little if anything to do with geopolitics, it just doesn't belong.

Russia was playing the same game we were, they forced the issue paying off Yanukovych to quickly change his stance. they initiated the whole mess. it could have kept on status quo, but for whatever reason Russia suddenly felt they needed more control after 40ish years.
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Yanukovych was most definitely Putin's man in Ukraine, but he was democratically elected. He beat a pro-Europe candidate (Yulia Tymoshenko) in an election in 2010 that was deemed by OSCE observers to be fair. It isn't a surprise that he then went on to sign an economic deal with Russia. Before he could see that through, he was overthrown in a coup that was fomented (though not 100% caused) by NATO.

We would not put up with and have not put up with other nations fiddling around with nations within our sphere of influence in the past. When we meddle overseas, it's to "defend freedom" or some other platitude. When other nations resist our meddling, or attempt to meddle in our affairs, we call that "aggression" or something like that.
 
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