Saquon Barkley is the best RB I've ever seen

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Actually his 355 rush yds and 100 rec yds in 4 games suggest that he would of easily been in rookie of year discussion if not won it

What player did you watch in college to act like cook ain’t **** yet you beat off to Saquon Barkley like he’s the second coming

Long as as he comes back healthy next year he’ll make you look foolish like Bosa and many others

Cook doesnt have great cutting ability, change of direction, or explosion after his initial cut is blocked off. He's great north to south when he has a clear path and he's decent at breaking tackles but not exceptional.

When I scout RBs I look for guys who can make something out of nothing. Guys who can succeed even if they don't get perfect blocking. I love Saquon because he's the best I've ever seen at making something out of nothing. Alvin has the same ability to make guys who are unblocked miss.

I'm not impressed by someone who gets great blocking and just shoots through a hole. Unless you are Emmitt Smith, nobody plays an entire career behind a dope o-line and does very little on his own in way to a Hall of Fame career.

 

[Vols410]

RG3 and Nick Foles are relevant because one year mirages happen. True greatness is defined by consistency. I'm simply 100% confident this Jared Goff year is pure fool's gold and he'll come crashing back down to earth next year when opposing coaches catch up to Sean McVay's gimmick. Just like they caught up to Chip Kelly's gimmick with Nick Foles in 2013.

You do realize that this is completely contrary to your arguments regarding Kamara right?

You trash Goff for two reasons, not enough consistency (year to year) and gimmick offense. So let's look at Kamara:

1. First year, so he doesn't have 'consistency.' Not saying he's not good, but according to you we can't call him 'truly great.'

2. Speaking of players achieving results in gimmicky offenses, have you looked at numbers of running backs with the ability to catch out of the backfield in a Sean Payton offense? Bush had enormous success his first year with Brees, and Sproles had several in the same role as Kamara. Granted, Kamara's numbers are better than both (with significantly less touches than Bush), but this offense is a gimmick built for a player like Kamara.

Once again, I think Kamara is an amazing talent, but I wanted to point out how ludicrous you are, and how inconsistent you're willing to be only to make it sound like you're right.

Cheers!

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

You talk like you can see the future it’s hilarious

You just know it all when it comes to who’s gonna be good and who’s not

Todd Gurley looked like **** last year too the whole damn team did and that was all a result of Jeff Fisher being absolute trash

Goff sucks but Dobbs is a future hall of famer hahaha you’re too much man

Hell last year I thought Goff was for sure a bust but you don’t go from that bad to that good by being lucky or by trickery dude has shown week after week he has a hell of an arm

Its not luck or trickery. I use the words fluke and mirage as short hand for great coaching making a not so great talent look better than he really is. The reason I'm not buying into Goff is because this sort of stuff doesn't last very long in the NFL. Opposing defensive coordinators figure it out during the off-season. Its why we've seen guys like Nick Foles go from MVP candidate one year to garbage the next. People didn't buy into him the way they've bought into Goff because he wasn't a first round pick. The media wants Goff to be great because he was the first overall pick. The higher you are drafted the more people overlook your shortcomings and overhype your success.

We've already seen one of the tricks McVay has been using to make Goff look good exposed by the media. He's been telling him audibles after the playcall in response to the defense. This type of hand holding doesn't happen in the NFL. I'm sure opposing teams will respond to this and give the Rams fake defensive calls now to throw off this hand holding. And I'm sure there are other tricks McVay has been using that other teams will discover over the off-season that will expose Goff next year.

This type of stuff always happens. Its why Dak doesn't look as good this year as last year. The true greats like Aaron Rodgers are able to recreate themselves every year that leaves defenses helpless. I simply don't believe Goff is very good which is why I expect him to be exposed SOON.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

You do realize that this is completely contrary to your arguments regarding Kamara right?

You trash Goff for two reasons, not enough consistency (year to year) and gimmick offense. So let's look at Kamara:

1. First year, so he doesn't have 'consistency.' Not saying he's not good, but according to you we can't call him 'truly great.'

2. Speaking of players achieving results in gimmicky offenses, have you looked at numbers of running backs with the ability to catch out of the backfield in a Sean Payton offense? Bush had enormous success his first year with Brees, and Sproles had several in the same role as Kamara. Granted, Kamara's numbers are better than both (with significantly less touches than Bush), but this offense is a gimmick built for a player like Kamara.

Once again, I think Kamara is an amazing talent, but I wanted to point out how ludicrous you are, and how inconsistent you're willing to be only to make it sound like you're right.

Cheers!

This is where my eye test comes in. Yes in an objective sense you are right. One year doesn't prove Alvin is great, just as one year doesn't prove Goff is as well. At the end of the day we'll only know who is right after many years in an objective sense. So I'm not here to argue that. I'm simply telling y'all I believe based on what I see that Kamara is great. And based on what I see Goff isn't.

So yes one year sample sizes are not dispositive either way to someone who is neutral. That is why we keep having debates. I'm just telling you my opinion that in 5 years you'll see Alvin still playing at a high level while Goff will be another Nick Foles aka one year wonder.

I never claimed that I wasn't going by my initial evaluations. When I change on a player like Dak Prescott, you'll know about it very soon. Goff has simply not impressed me enough to think my initial evaluation was wrong like Dak.

 

[hndog609]

RG3 and Nick Foles are relevant because one year mirages happen. True greatness is defined by consistency. I'm simply 100% confident this Jared Goff year is pure fool's gold and he'll come crashing back down to earth next year when opposing coaches catch up to Sean McVay's gimmick. Just like they caught up to Chip Kelly's gimmick with Nick Foles in 2013.

Your confidence in anything isn't even a fart in a hurricane even by your own definition. Consistency is a function of demonstrable observation over time therefore as long as Goff is performing at a high level nothing, not pathetic little appeals to the transitive property,not how you feel about literally anything or what tea leaves tell you while you drop acid. You're trying your best to obfuscate and rest assured nobody is buying.

And don't think everyone else isn't privy to the fact out of that whole post to which you replied the best retort you could muster was "Things happened with other players that might (dare I say "hypothetically"?) happen again in my galactically biased opinion.".

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Your confidence in anything isn't even a fart in a hurricane even by your own definition. Consistency is a function of demonstrable observation over time therefore as long as Goff is performing at a high level nothing, not pathetic little appeals to the transitive property,not how you feel about literally anything or what tea leaves tell you while you drop acid. You're trying your best to obfuscate and rest assured nobody is buying.

And don't think everyone else isn't privy to the fact out of that whole post to which you replied the best retort you could muster was "Things happened with other players that might (dare I say "hypothetically"?) happen again in my galactically biased opinion.".

See my post just above this one of yours. It explain my thinking.

I go by my eye test. If I thought Goff was actually good this year I would have admited mistake like I did with Dak last year. But I don't think I was wrong with Goff. He simply doesn't impress me on tape. He's being coached/schemed to success. Much like Chip Kelly schemed Nick Foles to success in 2013. After that lucky year defensive coordinators caught up to Chip Kelly's tricks and started exposing Foles for the mediocre talent he is.

Look for teams to catch up to Sean McVay's tricks by next year and expose Goff for the mediocre talent he is.

 

[Burger]

See my post just above this one of yours. It explain my thinking.

I go by my eye test. If I thought Goff was actually good this year I would have admited mistake like I did with Dak last year. But I don't think I was wrong with Goff. He simply doesn't impress me on tape. He's being coached/schemed to success. Much like Chip Kelly schemed Nick Foles to success in 2013. After that lucky year defensive coordinators caught up to Chip Kelly's tricks and started exposing Foles for the mediocre talent he is.

Look for teams to catch up to Sean McVay's tricks by next year and expose Goff for the mediocre talent he is.

Your eye test only has a 10% accuracy rating.

 

[Vols410]

This is where my eye test comes in. Yes in an objective sense you are right. One year doesn't prove Alvin is great, just as one year doesn't prove Goff is as well. At the end of the day we'll only know who is right after many years in an objective sense. So I'm not here to argue that. I'm simply telling y'all I believe based on what I see that Kamara is great. And based on what I see Goff isn't.

So yes one year sample sizes are not dispositive either way to someone who is neutral. That is why we keep having debates. I'm just telling you my opinion that in 5 years you'll see Alvin still playing at a high level while Goff will be another Nick Foles aka one year wonder.

I never claimed that I wasn't going by my initial evaluations. When I change on a player like Dak Prescott, you'll know about it very soon. Goff has simply not impressed me enough to think my initial evaluation was wrong like Dak.

The problem is you don't debate. You don't present evidence. You don't talk about your criteria for greatness. You claim that it's simply your opinion, and then you declare that you have a better ability to recognize talent than NFL scouts as soon as you find one piece of anything that partially correlates to your opinion.

You point out numbers, until the numbers fail. Then you go to quotes from obscure places that seemingly validate your opinion, until those stop coming. Then you resort to your ambiguous 'eye test', and declare that you have already been proven correct despite a lack of EVIDENCE to support your claim.

News flash, your 'eye test' isn't evidence. In fact, it's the very item you need evidence for. No one here is sold on your ability to judge talent, so your blessed 'eye test' is on trial here. It's not evidence, it's not fact, it's an opinion that will eventually be proven wrong just like all of your other predictions, at which point you will change them and claim you were right all along.

 

[bamawriter]

I also said I was willing to finally give those guys their due or give up on Hogan and Taylor if they showed nothing by year 3-4.

There nothing hypothetical about that. Its me sticking to my original predictions and not jumping ship after a little initial adversity.

That is the very definition of hypothetical.

 

[n_huffhines]

I think he can it’s not like he missed a lot of time in college bad luck does happen esp to the vikings

Jmo but he was the best back in cfb and would of had a good 1200-1400 yards this year with at least 350+ receiving

But hell be back next year

Also ypc tends to be better when you split carries although kamaras is especially impressive

He may have answered the bell at FSU, but he has a history of nagging injuries. 3 shoulder surgeries and a hamstring issue

 

[hndog609]

See my post just above this one of yours. It explain my thinking.

I go by my eye test. If I thought Goff was actually good this year I would have admited mistake like I did with Dak last year. But I don't think I was wrong with Goff. He simply doesn't impress me on tape. He's being coached/schemed to success. Much like Chip Kelly schemed Nick Foles to success in 2013. After that lucky year defensive coordinators caught up to Chip Kelly's tricks and started exposing Foles for the mediocre talent he is.

Look for teams to catch up to Sean McVay's tricks by next year and expose Goff for the mediocre talent he is.

I'll pare this down far enough that it getting into your skull might be possible.

If it's not on the field all else is twaddle. Hell, you may eventually be right about Goff but you absolutely, positively get zero/zilch/nada credit for kicking the can down the road and pretending you know something you don't. Goff IS balling all over your prediction until he isn't.

Goff is only a single example of your ineptitude at your claimed prescience in talent evaluation conflicting with reality. This wasn't in my first post highlighting that fact but did you know outside Kamara all your other picks at RB have a combined ypc of 3.7? Did you also know rookies you left off that list, Hunt/Fournette/Cook, have averaged 4.5ypc?

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

The problem is you don't debate. You don't present evidence. You don't talk about your criteria for greatness. You claim that it's simply your opinion, and then you declare that you have a better ability to recognize talent than NFL scouts as soon as you find one piece of anything that partially correlates to your opinion.

You point out numbers, until the numbers fail. Then you go to quotes from obscure places that seemingly validate your opinion, until those stop coming. Then you resort to your ambiguous 'eye test', and declare that you have already been proven correct despite a lack of EVIDENCE to support your claim.

News flash, your 'eye test' isn't evidence. In fact, it's the very item you need evidence for. No one here is sold on your ability to judge talent, so your blessed 'eye test' is on trial here. It's not evidence, it's not fact, it's an opinion that will eventually be proven wrong just like all of your other predictions, at which point you will change them and claim you were right all along.

You can doubt me right now. I just know in 2-3 years you won't be saying this. You'll be saying like many are saying about Alvin Kamara right now. You'll be saying you were right to me.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

I'll pare this down far enough that it getting into your skull might be possible.

If it's not on the field all else is twaddle. Hell, you may eventually be right about Goff but you absolutely, positively get zero/zilch/nada credit for kicking the can down the road and pretending you know something you don't. Goff IS balling all over your prediction until he isn't.

Goff is only a single example of your ineptitude at your claimed prescience in talent evaluation conflicting with reality. This wasn't in my first post highlighting that fact but did you know outside Kamara all your other picks at RB have a combined ypc of 3.7? Did you also know rookies you left off that list, Hunt/Fournette/Cook, have averaged 4.5ypc?

That's wrong. I have my eye test. We'll find out soon enough how good my eye test is. Josh Dobbs being the best QB ever is my greatest prediction given the fact it is so different from everyone else.

If Dobbs isn't being talked about as one of the best ever just like people are now comparing Kamara to Marshall Faulk, I'll stop having so much faith in my eye test.

Till then I'm confident that what I see is closer to the truth than Jared Goff's lucky stats this season.

 

[Burger]

That's wrong. I have my eye test. We'll find out soon enough how good my eye test is. Josh Dobbs being the best QB ever is my greatest prediction given the fact it is so different from everyone else.

If Dobbs isn't being talked about as one of the best ever just like people are now comparing Kamara to Marshall Faulk, I'll stop having so much faith in my eye test.

Till then I'm confident that what I see is closer to the truth than Jared Goff's lucky stats this season.

Your eye test is garbage. You didn't even know coaching mattered until October.

 

[TDawg]

I don't make up hypotheticals. I talk straight facts. I.e. Alvin Kamara putting up historic per touch numbers right now and being compared to Hall of Famers. Those are facts not hypotheticals.

Dude, you're whole schtick is hypotheticals .. Dobbs and Kamara going to be HoFers .. that's a hypothetical based on them staying healthy, Dobbs actually cracking the starting lineup (probably not going to happen), and offenses staying in line with their skill sets. That's all based on hypotheticals, no real facts .. worse yet, it's also based on your opinion which has shown about a 10% success rate.

 

[TDawg]

Cook doesnt have great cutting ability, change of direction, or explosion after his initial cut is blocked off. He's great north to south when he has a clear path and he's decent at breaking tackles but not exceptional.

When I scout RBs I look for guys who can make something out of nothing. Guys who can succeed even if they don't get perfect blocking. I love Saquon because he's the best I've ever seen at making something out of nothing. Alvin has the same ability to make guys who are unblocked miss.

I'm not impressed by someone who gets great blocking and just shoots through a hole. Unless you are Emmitt Smith, nobody plays an entire career behind a dope o-line and does very little on his own in way to a Hall of Fame career.

Dalvin Cook Week 2 Regular Season Highlights Impressive Cuts | 9/17/2017 - YouTube

at the 1:50 mark, you kind of don't look too good. That play is designed to go to his left and his vision and cut to the right made the play what it was. Believe me, no one from an NFL team would be looking for your input on "scouting RBs".

 

[hndog609]

That's wrong. I have my eye test. We'll find out soon enough how good my eye test is. Josh Dobbs being the best QB ever is my greatest prediction given the fact it is so different from everyone else.

If Dobbs isn't being talked about as one of the best ever just like people are now comparing Kamara to Marshall Faulk, I'll stop having so much faith in my eye test.

Till then I'm confident that what I see is closer to the truth than Jared Goff's lucky stats this season.

Your "eye test" carries less weight in assessing talent than barometric pressure. 4 of your top 6 players from last year are Kelvin Taylor, Jonathan Williams, Kevin Hogan and Christian Hackenberg. Your contention draft people don't know more than you is empirically curb stomped by the massive over representation of the first 2 rounds in Pro Bowls and the HOF.

If you are what your record says you are you're really at the league's bottom in wins. And citing wins (Kamara at present) doesn't take all the losses away.

 

[BeardedVol]

That's wrong. I have my eye test. We'll find out soon enough how good my eye test is. Josh Dobbs being the best QB ever is my greatest prediction given the fact it is so different from everyone else.

If Dobbs isn't being talked about as one of the best ever just like people are now comparing Kamara to Marshall Faulk, I'll stop having so much faith in my eye test.

Till then I'm confident that what I see is closer to the truth than Jared Goff's lucky stats this season.

Your "eye test", is literally the equivalent of predicting a coin flip. Will they be good long term yes or no, all the while, completely disregarding any and all statistics that are the literal representation of player production on the field. We don't even have to get into your abysmal success rate for your predictions to determine why no one should take you seriously in matters of football.

 

[TDawg]

See my post just above this one of yours. It explain my thinking.

I go by my eye test. If I thought Goff was actually good this year I would have admited mistake like I did with Dak last year. But I don't think I was wrong with Goff. He simply doesn't impress me on tape. He's being coached/schemed to success. Much like Chip Kelly schemed Nick Foles to success in 2013. After that lucky year defensive coordinators caught up to Chip Kelly's tricks and started exposing Foles for the mediocre talent he is.

Look for teams to catch up to Sean McVay's tricks by next year and expose Goff for the mediocre talent he is.

Good golly, and you would think 3,383 yards, 22 TDs/6 INTs would get someone a bit more love. I guess your "eye test" (another cliche D4H steals from watching analysts on TV) doesn't include completing passes (62.2%, 64% on third down), a 3.5/1 TD/INT ratio, and being in the upper half of the QBRs in the league. But then again, you don't really know the QB position so I would guess not.

 

[sanefan]

This is where my eye test comes in. Yes in an objective sense you are right. One year doesn't prove Alvin is great, just as one year doesn't prove Goff is as well. At the end of the day we'll only know who is right after many years in an objective sense. So I'm not here to argue that. I'm simply telling y'all I believe based on what I see that Kamara is great. And based on what I see Goff isn't.

So yes one year sample sizes are not dispositive either way to someone who is neutral. That is why we keep having debates. I'm just telling you my opinion that in 5 years you'll see Alvin still playing at a high level while Goff will be another Nick Foles aka one year wonder.

I never claimed that I wasn't going by my initial evaluations. When I change on a player like Dak Prescott, you'll know about it very soon. Goff has simply not impressed me enough to think my initial evaluation was wrong like Dak.

.

 

[The Ron Mexico]

It's good that he wasnt invited to the Heisman Trophy ceremony.

That's not a place where NFL legends typically go. See Alvin Kamara.

If anyone refutes this will you just come up with your own personal definition of “legend” to show they’re wrong?

 

[KB5252]

He's the best tackler since Joe Montana...... Hands down!


Seeent it wif my oun ayes.

 

[volnbama_]

Its not luck or trickery. I use the words fluke and mirage as short hand for great coaching making a not so great talent look better than he really is. The reason I'm not buying into Goff is because this sort of stuff doesn't last very long in the NFL. Opposing defensive coordinators figure it out during the off-season. Its why we've seen guys like Nick Foles go from MVP candidate one year to garbage the next. People didn't buy into him the way they've bought into Goff because he wasn't a first round pick. The media wants Goff to be great because he was the first overall pick. The higher you are drafted the more people overlook your shortcomings and overhype your success.

We've already seen one of the tricks McVay has been using to make Goff look good exposed by the media. He's been telling him audibles after the playcall in response to the defense. This type of hand holding doesn't happen in the NFL. I'm sure opposing teams will respond to this and give the Rams fake defensive calls now to throw off this hand holding. And I'm sure there are other tricks McVay has been using that other teams will discover over the off-season that will expose Goff next year.

This type of stuff always happens. Its why Dak doesn't look as good this year as last year. The true greats like Aaron Rodgers are able to recreate themselves every year that leaves defenses helpless. I simply don't believe Goff is very good which is why I expect him to be exposed SOON.

Why can’t McVay adapt his offense once others catch on?

 

[sanefan]

Why can’t McVay adapt his offense once others catch on?

Sorry, that doesn't fit the narrative.

And since the point made was intelligence, not skill set, don't bring up the idea that Goff will be able to learn how to read defenses and therefore not have to be told by the coach.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Why can’t McVay adapt his offense once others catch on?

He's not Bill Belichek.

That's basically the only coach who has been consistently great year after year.