Sarkisian comment pertinent to UT football

#201
#201
TGVol said:
Because he did some very good things here:

1. Cleaned up program in terms of getting out of NCAA mess after Kiffin (and keeping it clean).

2. Had amazing recruiting success initally when he only had about a month after he was hired - brought in Hunter and D Rogers (did much better than Butch with his first class with less time than Butch).

3. Build one of the best offenses in the country in 3 years, and one of the best in school history (recruited great receivers, and o-line, and had excellent offensive staff).

4. Seemed to be down to earth and honest - I never had impression with him that he was trying to sell anyone on anything - was almost to honest for his own good.

5. Seems to be the unluckiest guy alive (so I feel some sympathy for him for that reason) - if he brought in just about anyone other than Sunseri with the offense we had last year we would have been 10-2 (and let's not even talk about unreal endings to LSU and NC games in prior years - if he would have won those 2 his first year he would have gained a lot of recruiting success because of momentum - those 2 loses and the UK loss the year later eventually cost him his job because the recruiting stalled after that.

Butch is a much slicker salesman (which is needed for recruiting and larger fan base) - but some of the stuff he says can be over the top for my taste (ie. bringing best staff in America is equivalent to Obama saying you can keep your insurance and doctor while knowing all along this was not the case)
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Are you serious?
 
#204
#204
oregonvol said:
Once again, your inability to admit that coaching, training, game plans, schemes, etc. have anything to do with a team's performance makes your argument the utter epitome of ExcusaVol silliness.

Yes, Vanderbilt has played better. Yes, they did it with no star, 2 star, and 3 star talent. No, that doesn't mean that the recruiting services were all wrong. It means that their coaches did a much better job with the talent they had than our coaches did.

If you do truly believe that coaching has nothing to do with a team's performance and every team that wins is simply more talented than the team that loses, then why do you even care who our coach is?
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I guess I need to slow down and spell this out. Like I have said coaching has everything to do with. IN college, coaching starts with recruiting, however just recruiting top talent and being ranked in the top 25 in recruiting class in the country does not mean that talent will develop into top 25 teams. COACHING AND DEVELOPING TOP HIGH SCHOOL TALENT INTO COLLEGE TOP PLAYERS IS ON THE HEAD COACH AND HIS STAFF. Most players don't come into college especially the SEC and become superstars and dominate players. It's called developing talent and that is on the head coach. In UT case that development for the most part has not happened going all the way back to Fulmers last few seasons. The lack of development over the past several years is why UT is where it is today.

To help you understand this lets go back and look at UT past. From the late 80's to the early 2000's UT signed and developed great athletes and because of this development they were able to compete year in and year out (most seasons were 9 wins seasons). Because of the early 90's success in recruiting, developing and winning by the late 90's the team had not only built a solid core of starters but had deep depth at almost all position which in return led to a couple of SEC championship and a NC. Remember all of this was done with two head coaches. Now since 2005 the exact opposite has happened. Recruiting was good at best, Fulmers last few seasons developing the talent went down, Kiffin no one will never really know but if USC is any indication it would not been much better than Dooley. Dooley could not develop and could not coach against the SEC top brass. Now Jones walks into a mess, regardless what anyone thinks recruiting was never as good as their class ranking was, rather it was developing players or the players themselves were over ranked coming out of high school. Whatever it was is now over, it is Jones time to show us what he can. He needs talent, speed on defense and depth at all positions until he gets these things we are going to have 5-7 to 6-6 seasons.
 
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#205
#205
oregonvol said:
Once again, your inability to admit that coaching, training, game plans, schemes, etc. have anything to do with a team's performance makes your argument the utter epitome of ExcusaVol silliness.

Yes, Vanderbilt has played better. Yes, they did it with no star, 2 star, and 3 star talent. No, that doesn't mean that the recruiting services were all wrong. It means that their coaches did a much better job with the talent they had than our coaches did.

If you do truly believe that coaching has nothing to do with a team's performance and every team that wins is simply more talented than the team that loses, then why do you even care who our coach is?
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Very true!! However, the coaching staff has to have the players to build a game plan and schemes to compete against six top 5 teams in one season. UT is not close to being in the top 5 and not close to really competing against a true top 5 team regardless what the game plans and schemes are.
 
#206
#206
alltimevol2331 said:
Very true!! However, the coaching staff has to have the players to build a game plan and schemes to compete against six top 5 teams in one season. UT is not close to being in the top 5 and not close to really competing against a true top 5 team regardless what the game plans and schemes are.
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No one expected them to beat a top 5 team. It would have been enough for pretty much everybody to simply be competitive with a few of them. But we weren't. We looked virtually no different than an FCS team against Alabama, Oregon, Auburn, and Missouri.

Also, we lost to Vanderbilt, who is not a top 5 team. And who does not have more talent on their roster than we do. They do, however, have better coaches.
 
#207
#207
alltimevol2331 said:
I guess I need to slow down and spell this out. Like I have said coaching has everything to do with. IN college, coaching starts with recruiting, however just recruiting top talent and being ranked in the top 25 in recruiting class in the country does not mean that talent will develop into top 25 teams. COACHING AND DEVELOPING TOP HIGH SCHOOL TALENT INTO COLLEGE TOP PLAYERS IS ON THE HEAD COACH AND HIS STAFF. Most players don't come into college especially the SEC and become superstars and dominate players. It's called developing talent and that is on the head coach. In UT case that development for the most part has not happened going all the way back to Fulmers last few seasons. The lack of development over the past several years is why UT is where it is today.
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So, when you say that "Vanderbilt has more talent" what you really mean is that they have more experience, better coaching, and better training? Okay. But "talent" is generally used to suggest a raw ability that those things then shape. Maybe you should use a more descriptive term.

It's funny though that you seem to suggest that none of the lack of player development is the fault of our current staff. You are aware that Vanderbilt immediately improved by leaps and bounds the first year Franklin got there, right?
 
#208
#208
oregonvol said:
So, when you say that "Vanderbilt has more talent" what you really mean is that they have more experience, better coaching, and better training? Okay. But "talent" is generally used to suggest a raw ability that those things then shape. Maybe you should use a more descriptive term.

It's funny though that you seem to suggest that none of the lack of player development is the fault of our current staff. You are aware that Vanderbilt immediately improved by leaps and bounds the first year Franklin got there, right?
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How are you judging talent? I could careless about classes or where they were ranked coming out of high school. Once they hit the field in college that is what counts and truthfully my opinion is UT does not have much talent. In fact, I would rank this team in the SEC around 10th in talent.

You say UT has talent where is it? I have not seen it on the field in several seasons. If this coaching staff can develop and continue to recruit well along with the young players that played this season then I say UT maybe on its way back.
 
#209
#209
oregonvol said:
So, when you say that "Vanderbilt has more talent" what you really mean is that they have more experience, better coaching, and better training? Okay. But "talent" is generally used to suggest a raw ability that those things then shape. Maybe you should use a more descriptive term.

It's funny though that you seem to suggest that none of the lack of player development is the fault of our current staff. You are aware that Vanderbilt immediately improved by leaps and bounds the first year Franklin got there, right?
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Vandy went from 2-10 to 6-6. Tennessee went 5-7 to 5-7 playing one of the toughest schedule in college football history. What I am saying is that UT does not have the individual talent to turn around. I think they had a great, successful season considering their schedule.
 
#211
#211
utvolpj said:
wait so the argument is simply that Franklin is better than Dooley? Not sure there's enough server space to compile a list of coaches better than Dooley

also don't forget Franklin was 1-1 vs Dooley and is 1-1 vs Jones
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fyp....and what does that have to do with anything?
 
#212
#212
alltimevol2331 said:
How are you judging talent? I could careless about classes or where they were ranked coming out of high school. Once they hit the field in college that is what counts and truthfully my opinion is UT does not have much talent. In fact, I would rank this team in the SEC around 10th in talent.
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Once again, this argument is patently insane. You refuse to acknowledge any recruiting rankings (so, once again, I guess you will not praise any work Butch Jones is currently doing in recruiting, since those rankings don't matter, right?). And then you only take into account performance and call it "talent". Once again, that only makes sense if you're saying that performance=talent... and coaching, schemes, play calling, etc, has no bearing on a team's performance and that is insane.

Do you really think that in every game the team that performs better is necessarily more talented? So every team that wins is more talented than the team that loses? Really?
 
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#213
#213
alltimevol2331 said:
Also Bobby Johnson was a good recruiter, Dooley and crew was not.
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Oh, brother...

Recruiting rankings (each coach's last 3 years, per Rivals):

2007 Bobby Johnson #67
2008 Bobby Johnson #91
2009 Bobby Johnson #71

2010 Derek Dooley #9
2011 Derek Dooley #13
2012 Derek Dooley #17

Can you still not see how totally insane your "talent/recruiting" argument is?
 
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#215
#215
oregonvol said:
Once again, this argument is patently insane. You refuse to acknowledge any recruiting rankings (so, once again, I guess you will not praise any work Butch Jones is currently doing in recruiting, since those rankings don't matter, right?). And then you only take into account performance and call it "talent". Once again, that only makes since if you're saying that performance=talent and coaching, schemes, play calling, etc, has no bearing on a team's performance and that is insane.

Do you really think that in every game the team that performs better is necessarily more talented? So every team that wins is more talented than the team that loses? Really? That makes no sense.
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You really don't understand do you??? Is recruiting rankings are important come February and come summer camps. Yes UT being in the top 5 is very impressive and if that talent transforms into college talent then like I said UT will be back in the top 20 very soon. Once again it is all of what you say I agree 1000% percent but UT overall talent is way way down right now. It doesn't matter the scheme, game plan or changes that make during the game, the fact is UT is not anywhere close to Oregon, Bama, Auburn, Missouri right now. It is tough to compete with that much talent difference.

No the most talented team can lose to the least talented team but those games are usually a fluke.

Look I set in Neyland in the 70's through this last decade. I have seen some very great UT teams, I have seen some really bad teams also. The fact is right now this team, the players are not very good and most are not SEC caliber.
 
#216
#216
oregonvol said:
Oh, brother...

Recruiting rankings (each coach's last 3 years, per Rivals):

2007 Bobby Johnson #67
2008 Bobby Johnson #91
2009 Bobby Johnson #71

2010 Derek Dooley #9
2011 Derek Dooley #13
2012 Derek Dooley #17

Can you still not see how totally insane your "talent/recruiting" argument is?
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Dooley players are nowhere near that good. I would only put one class in the top 25 and that is a stretch. To prove it look at how they play on the field. At this point those numbers don't matter it is how they play week in and week out. You look to much into rankings and not players development.
 
#217
#217
Some people say Tennessee was only 2 plays away from 7-5 and some say only one miracle catch by a true freshman from being 4-8.

guys, the talent wasnt anywhere near what is needed to win in this league. Jones did all he could with what he had. That he was that close to a 7 win season is amazing. Probably closer to a 4-8 team though talentwise JMO
 
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#218
#218
wmcovol said:
Some people say Tennessee was only 2 plays away from 7-5 and some say only one miracle catch by a true freshman from being 4-8.

guys, the talent wasnt anywhere near what is needed to win in this league. Jones did all he could with what he had. That he was that close to a 7 win season is amazing. Probably closer to a 4-8 team though talentwise JMO
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:good!:
 
#219
#219
wmcovol said:
Some people say Tennessee was only 2 plays away from 7-5 and some say only one miracle catch by a true freshman from being 4-8.

guys, the talent wasnt anywhere near what is needed to win in this league. Jones did all he could with what he had. That he was that close to a 7 win season is amazing. Probably closer to a 4-8 team though talentwise JMO
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He was 3 plays away from going 3-9. That's pretty pathetic no matter where you are.
 
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#220
#220
alltimevol2331 said:
Dooley players are nowhere near that good. I would only put one class in the top 25 and that is a stretch. To prove it look at how they play on the field. At this point those numbers don't matter it is how they play week in and week out. You look to much into rankings and not players development.
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No, I hold coaches accountable. And I use objective services to measure the talent they have to work with, not excuses fans come up with after the fact. Vanderbilt did not play well until Franklin got there. They showed major, significant improvement almost immediately. That is coaching.
 
#221
#221
oregonvol said:
No, I hold coaches accountable. And I use objective services to measure the talent they have to work with, not excuses fans come up with after the fact. Vanderbilt did not play well until Franklin got there. They showed major, significant improvement almost immediately. That is coaching.
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So lets fire jones and start all over.
 
#223
#223
oregonvol said:
No, I hold coaches accountable. And I use objective services to measure the talent they have to work with, not excuses fans come up with after the fact. Vanderbilt did not play well until Franklin got there. They showed major, significant improvement almost immediately. That is coaching.
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The talent on the team is the worst it has been since the late 70's and I am not sure if those teams were not better than what we have now. Watch the plays, watch man on man. These guys don't have speed, skill or the ability to play with the top SEC teams. No other way to put it. Dooley recruiting classes did not pan out, call it poor coaching or a guys that were overrated coming out of high school. The bottom line is Tennessee is not very good right now and for a 5-7 season playing their schedule is pretty good if you ask me.
 
#225
#225
Slingshot said:
I dont always agree with my wife. But i still support her and want her to be successful in life.

I dont always agree with my childrens decisions. But I still support them and want them to be successful.

I did not always agree with all the former coaches. But while they were Tennessee Vols I supported them and wanted them to be successful.

If I had anything to say as a fan it was constructive not destructive.

I just get tired of reading posts from people who call themselves fans but have nothing to say that adds any value whatsoever. They are always tearing down people over things that they have no experience doing themselves or know anything about.
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Do you really get tired of reading them? If they didn't you couldn't post from your soapbox.
 
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