Sarkisian comment pertinent to UT football

[Grey_pilgrim]

We regressed in offense, penalties, and turnovers. Only slight improvement on defense (smaller than regression on offense). And I did read your post(s) - you keep changing the subject when the facts don't support whatever agenda you are trying to push.
I was asked to put up or shut up regarding whether we regressed or not (it was not specific to defense but overall - and those numbers are clear).

How did I change the subject? You brought regression and I posted a response to it. And I have no agenda to push other then people saying we were bad this year which we were but no logical person should've really expected more then 6-6/7-5 at best which we were two overturned calls away from.

 

[oregonvol]

I never said anything about loving and praising any coach we have here or saying that I was happy or ok with losing to Vandy.

Ummm, yes you did. You said that we should just be happy we had a lead late in the game. Against Vanderbilt. You said it. I read it. I wish neither had happened. But it did.

I will just admit that UT is not as talented or have the depth that most teams in the SEC has including Vandy at this point. Four coaches since the 08 seasons, recruits committing then decommitting. Players transferring, players leaving early for the NFL really hurt us this season. The O would have been a completely different story if the four guys had stayed.

UT has less talent than Vanderbilt based on what criteria? That we played worse than they did this season? I mean, that's the only argument you could possibly make and it only makes sense if we agree that coaching, discipline, conditioning, training, schemes, game plans, etc.have nothing to do with a team's performance. But that would be idiotic.

We had more players on the field who were higher rated than what they had on the field and it wasn't really even close. But I guess you don't put any stock in any of the several recruiting services that would confirm that, huh? I mean, they must be less trustworthy and less objective than a guy on a messageboard looking to make excuses, right? I guess then, you don't think much of Butch's current recruiting class either, right? Since the ranking are meaningless.

 

[Grey_pilgrim]

We regressed in offense, penalties, and turnovers. Only slight improvement on defense (smaller than regression on offense). And I did read your post(s) - you keep changing the subject when the facts don't support whatever agenda you are trying to push.
I was asked to put up or shut up regarding whether we regressed or not (it was not specific to defense but overall - and those numbers are clear).

Also what did you except for us this year?

 

[volfan411]

Truth and facts don't matter when they are inconvenient to our current coach? Would it have bothered you if something like this came out about Dooley (last year when he was still our coach)? How about Fulmer?

I would bother me no matter who the coach is as the reporter is implying that Jones does not have commitment to any school and would leave if offered a better opportunity which gives other schools ammo to use against UT in recruiting.

The article is not fair to Jones as most would agree that UT is a step up from Cincy and it is not like he made a lateral move and abandoned his players. He made a move that if he is successful in will pay huge dividends down the road for him.

 

[alltimevol2331]

Ummm, yes you did. You said that we should just be happy we had a lead late in the game. Against Vanderbilt. You said it. I read it. I wish neither had happened. But it did.



UT has less talent than Vanderbilt based on what criteria? That we played worse than they did this season? I mean, that's the only argument you could possibly make and it only makes sense if we agree that coaching, discipline, conditioning, training, schemes, game plans, etc.have nothing to do with a team's performance. But that would be idiotic.

We had more players on the field who were higher rated than what they had on the field and it wasn't really even close. But I guess you don't put any stock in any of the several recruiting services that would confirm that, huh? I mean, they must be less trustworthy and less objective than a guy on a messageboard looking to make excuses, right? I guess then, you don't think much of Butch's current recruiting class either, right? Since the ranking are meaningless.

You make this way to easy. First off, yes we played worse than they did. We finished 4-7, Vandy finished 8-4 they are going bowling for the third straight season, our guys are sitting at home for the third straight season.

I agree with you on everything you said in the first paragraph it takes all of that and it all comes on the coaching. However, when you have 4 HC's in 8 seasons, different themes, different game plans, different AC, different everything it is tough for any coach to come in his first year and make big difference in his first year. Yes, I know Kiffin and Dooley both went to a bowl game their first season. But that was mostly Fulmer recruits and talent.

Your last point is a good one. Yes UT signees have ranked higher than Vandy. However, here is the point you miss. Just because you sign elite high school talent does not mean it is going to transfer into elite college talent or elite college talent into elite NFL talent. That falls completely on the coaches. The coaches must take that talent, that player and help him transform into that next level elite player. Dooley and his staff could not do this and truthfully that was what killed Fulmer in the end. Have you heard the old phrase "not getting the full talent out of a player" a lot of time that is the coach not coaching the player to the next level. We can't judge Jones after one season, his class coming in is very talented the question will be can he coach them to be elite on the next level?

 

[TGVol]

Also what did you except for us this year?

We did about as bad as I expected on offense, and worse on defense (I thought improvement compared to Sal's defense would be more dramatic no matter who came in as DC - especially in terms of being more disciplined regarding assignment, gap controls, tackling, etc).
As far as offense - we regressed mainly because of switch to spread and firing of our previous offensive staff. I think talent was less of an issue than Butch's supporters are making it out to be as an excuse -I'm convinced the players we have here on offense would have done a lot better if Butch kept Chaney and Pittman (there would obviously still be some type of drop off from last year due to losing CP and Hunter, but not as bad as it turned out to be).
And I completely disagree with whoever posted that Vanderbilt is more talented than us (that was not the case last year or this year - not even close). We lost both of those games because of coaching issues (in Dooley's case he was for all practical purposes already fired so I think the team just quit at that point, and Butch simply got out-coached by Franklin).

 

[alltimevol2331]

Ummm, yes you did. You said that we should just be happy we had a lead late in the game. Against Vanderbilt. You said it. I read it. I wish neither had happened. But it did.


UT has less talent than Vanderbilt based on what criteria? That we played worse than they did this season? I mean, that's the only argument you could possibly make and it only makes sense if we agree that coaching, discipline, conditioning, training, schemes, game plans, etc.have nothing to do with a team's performance. But that would be idiotic.

We had more players on the field who were higher rated than what they had on the field and it wasn't really even close. But I guess you don't put any stock in any of the several recruiting services that would confirm that, huh? I mean, they must be less trustworthy and less objective than a guy on a messageboard looking to make excuses, right? I guess then, you don't think much of Butch's current recruiting class either, right? Since the ranking are meaningless.

I was happy that they made it a close game and had a chance to win it. When you look at the two previous weeks what did expect. Blown out by Auburn, blown out by Missouri. It could have easily been another blow out. Did you really expect UT to beat Vandy??? My friend this is not the 90's. Vandy is better and the Vols are not as good.

 

[alltimevol2331]

We did about as bad as I expected on offense, and worse on defense (I thought improvement compared to Sal's defense would be more dramatic no matter who came in as DC - especially in terms of being more disciplined regarding assignment, gap controls, tackling, etc).
As far as offense - we regressed mainly because of switch to spread and firing of our previous offensive staff. I think talent was less of an issue than Butch's supporters are making it out to be as an excuse -I'm convinced the players we have here on offense would have done a lot better if Butch kept Chaney and Pittman (there would obviously still be some type of drop off from last year due to losing CP and Hunter, but not as bad as it turned out to be).
And I completely disagree with whoever posted that Vanderbilt is more talented than us (that was not the case last year or this year - not even close). We lost both of those games because of coaching issues (in Dooley's case he was for all practical purposes already fired so I think the team just quit at that point, and Butch simply got out-coached by Franklin).

We were just to slow on defense. When we played top teams our linebacker looked very slow. They could not run side to side.

 

[TGVol]

The article is not fair to Jones as most would agree that UT is a step up from Cincy and it is not like he made a lateral move and abandoned his players.

Are you kidding? Have you read the article and skipped the following paragraph? If you read what he said here how can you say he did not abandon the players?

"If it hadn't been Tennessee, it would have been Wisconsin. If not this year, then next. Maybe Jones' definition of ''commitment'' is different than yours or mine. Last year, after leveraging one good season into multiple job interviews and a contract extension, Jones said, "I think I've proven I want to be here. This is a very special place. We're building something special here. I ask our players to make a commitment. I need to make a commitment back.
Astounding. Even by college football coaches' standards"

 

[volfan411]

Are you kidding? Have you read the article and skipped the following paragraph? If you read what he said here how can you say he did not abandon the players?

"If it hadn't been Tennessee, it would have been Wisconsin. If not this year, then next. Maybe Jones' definition of ''commitment'' is different than yours or mine. Last year, after leveraging one good season into multiple job interviews and a contract extension, Jones said, "I think I've proven I want to be here. This is a very special place. We're building something special here. I ask our players to make a commitment. I need to make a commitment back.
Astounding. Even by college football coaches' standards"

Every coach in the country is doing it. What do you want them to say I will not take a job that allows me to further my career.

Do you think Sarkisian was telling his players I will take the SC job if it comes open. You guys put to much in to coach speak.

 

[TGVol]

Every coach in the country is doing it. What do you want them to say I will not take a job that allows me to further my career.

Do you think Sarkisian was telling his players I will take the SC job if it comes open. You guys put to much in to coach speak.

Fine - I agree with this. The only reason that all this even came up (why I highlighted the article) is because some people keep trying to make it look like Butch is somehow different than other coaches, more trustworthy, easier to buy into, etc - all this shows is that he is just like everyone else and will say whatever he needs to make the "sale" (and that's fine but let's not forget that next time when people start getting religious defending Butch or any other coach we may be talking about in the future).

 

[alltimevol2331]

Fine - I agree with this. The only reason that all this even came up (why I highlighted the article) is because some people keep trying to make it look like Butch is somehow different than other coaches, more trustworthy, easier to buy into, etc - all this shows is that he is just like everyone else and will say whatever he needs to make the "sale" (and that's fine but let's not forget that next time when people start getting religious defending Butch or any other coach we may be talking about in the future).

I could less about anything he says or does. As long as he is at UT he needs to do his best to rebuild and reload the very best, possible team he can to compete for a NC. All else is just bull.

 

[volfan411]

Fine - I agree with this. The only reason that all this even came up (why I highlighted the article) is because some people keep trying to make it look like Butch is somehow different than other coaches, more trustworthy, easier to buy into, etc - all this shows is that he is just like everyone else and will say whatever he needs to make the "sale" (and that's fine but let's not forget that next time when people start getting religious defending Butch or any other coach we may be talking about in the future).

Okay I misunderstood I thought you were saying only Butch was doing it and I agree they are all "used car salesmen" and would jump on the next best opportunity. I like Butch but he is no different than any of the others if a better job comes along he is gone.

 

[Grey_pilgrim]

We did about as bad as I expected on offense, and worse on defense (I thought improvement compared to Sal's defense would be more dramatic no matter who came in as DC - especially in terms of being more disciplined regarding assignment, gap controls, tackling, etc).
As far as offense - we regressed mainly because of switch to spread and firing of our previous offensive staff. I think talent was less of an issue than Butch's supporters are making it out to be as an excuse -I'm convinced the players we have here on offense would have done a lot better if Butch kept Chaney and Pittman (there would obviously still be some type of drop off from last year due to losing CP and Hunter, but not as bad as it turned out to be).
And I completely disagree with whoever posted that Vanderbilt is more talented than us (that was not the case last year or this year - not even close). We lost both of those games because of coaching issues (in Dooley's case he was for all practical purposes already fired so I think the team just quit at that point, and Butch simply got out-coached by Franklin).

Two things:

1. You want a new coach who has a hard enough challenge in changing the players mentally from one that quits and gives up to one thats wins to keep some of the coaches that fostered that mentality? Also they didnt fit his system and philosophy of coaching.

2. A lot of people say Butch was out coached in the vandy game but how so? North who is our leading reciever went out early and Dobbs had a horrible game passing the ball so our gameplan was effected by both. Had the fake FG that many like to bring up worked every one would say the Butch out coached Franklin.

 

[oregonvol]

Did you really expect UT to beat Vandy???

Wow.

What kinds of questions will be asked after another year of Butch's "rebuilding"?

"Did you really expect UT to beat Arkansas State? Come on, man!"

 

[TGVol]

Two things:

1. You want a new coach who has a hard enough challenge in changing the players mentally from one that quits and gives up to one thats wins to keep some of the coaches that fostered that mentality? Also they didnt fit his system and philosophy of coaching.

2. A lot of people say Butch was out coached in the vandy game but how so? North who is our leading reciever went out early and Dobbs had a horrible game passing the ball so our gameplan was effected by both. Had the fake FG that many like to bring up worked every one would say the Butched out coached Franklin.

I don't buy that losing mentality talk at all. You accurately said that if fake FG would have worked Butch would have gotten credit. Similarly, if Dooley was able to pull out one or two of those very close games that came down to one or two plays in his first year (LSU, NC), he would have gone 8-4 and probably had huge recruiting year after that because of momentum (and then suddenly the same guy would not be viewed as loser but savior).
As far as Butch outcoached by Franklin, I think we have more than enough talent on the offensive side to move the ball more effectively than we did against Vandy (regardless of North injury). Dobbs' struggle passing the ball could have been the result of poor play calling and being too predictable (that was my impression when I was watching the game).

 

[Grey_pilgrim]

I don't buy that losing mentality talk at all. You accurately said that if fake FG would have worked Butch would have gotten credit. Similarly, if Dooley was able to pull out one or two of those very close games that came down to one or two plays in his first year (LSU, NC), he would have gone 8-4 and probably had huge recruiting year after that because of momentum (and then suddenly the same guy would not be viewed as loser but savior).
As far as Butch outcoached by Franklin, I think we have more than enough talent on the offensive side to move the ball more effectively than we did against Vandy (regardless of North injury). Dobbs' struggle passing the ball could have been the result of poor play calling and being too predictable (that was my impression when I was watching the game).

Very true about Dooley all he had to do last year was win miss state and he probably still here which is scary but after that game both dooley and the team seemed to quit/give up. For whatever reason he never could pull off that upset win and had trouble against teams with even talent. Had he not been fired we wouldve had our first 8 loss season.

For the record until halfway through last year i supported Dooley or atleast thought he needed to be be given a chance but after the miss state game he lost my support. He should not have been hired in the first place though.

 

[alltimevol2331]

Wow.

What kinds of questions will be asked after another year of Butch's "rebuilding"?

"Did you really expect UT to beat Arkansas State? Come on, man!"

Facts are facts, as the numbers don't lie. Vandy is better than UT at this point. You act like Vandy finished 2-10 or even 1-11 with the only win coming from UT.

On a side note Vandy would destroy Arkansas State.

 

[alltimevol2331]

We did about as bad as I expected on offense, and worse on defense (I thought improvement compared to Sal's defense would be more dramatic no matter who came in as DC - especially in terms of being more disciplined regarding assignment, gap controls, tackling, etc).
As far as offense - we regressed mainly because of switch to spread and firing of our previous offensive staff. I think talent was less of an issue than Butch's supporters are making it out to be as an excuse -I'm convinced the players we have here on offense would have done a lot better if Butch kept Chaney and Pittman (there would obviously still be some type of drop off from last year due to losing CP and Hunter, but not as bad as it turned out to be).
And I completely disagree with whoever posted that Vanderbilt is more talented than us (that was not the case last year or this year - not even close). We lost both of those games because of coaching issues (in Dooley's case he was for all practical purposes already fired so I think the team just quit at that point, and Butch simply got out-coached by Franklin).

Vandy is more talented. Why? Because Franklin and his staff can take their players and turn them into college talent. UT has not done this in years. How can any Vol fan honestly say that Vandy is not more talented than the Vols right now??? They have had a better record than UT the past three seasons???? Talent has more to do with it than you guys are saying.

 

[utvolpj]

Vandy is more talented. Why? Because Franklin and his staff can take their players and turn them into college talent. UT has not done this in years. How can any Vol fan honestly say that Vandy is not more talented than the Vols right now??? They have had a better record than UT the past three seasons???? Talent has more to do with it than you guys are saying.

better record means nothing when you actually look at the teams played. They are not more talented but have had better continuity. Their players haven't gone through the crap UT players have. That makes a difference

your love for Vandy is noted though

 

[alltimevol2331]

better record means nothing when you actually look at the teams played. They are not more talented but have had better continuity. Their players haven't gone through the crap UT players have. That makes a difference

your love for Vandy is noted though

I have no love for Vandy. If you look at my other post you see why I say Vandy is more talented and a better team at this point. Franklin and his staff is better than Dooley and his staff at taking their players to the next level. High school talent means very little once a kid steps into the SEC. The coaching staff has to be able to train, coach and build that high school athlete into a college athlete. Something UT has not done in several years.

 

[oregonvol]

Facts are facts, as the numbers don't lie. Vandy is better than UT at this point. You act like Vandy finished 2-10 or even 1-11 with the only win coming from UT.

I don't think anyone disputes that Vanderbilt performed better than UT this season. That they did perform better illustrates the problem. Why did they perform better? It was not because they had more talent. No real, objective criteria would support that conclusion. It was because they had better coaching.

 

[utvolpj]

I have no love for Vandy. If you look at my other post you see why I say Vandy is more talented and a better team at this point. Franklin and his staff is better than Dooley and his staff at taking their players to the next level. High school talent means very little once a kid steps into the SEC. The coaching staff has to be able to train, coach and build that high school athlete into a college athlete. Something UT has not done in several years.

wait so the argument is simply that Franklin is better than Dooley? Not sure there's enough server space to compile a list of coaches better than Dooley

also don't forget Franklin was 1-1 vs Dooley

 

[oregonvol]

Vandy is more talented. Why? Because Franklin and his staff can take their players and turn them into college talent. UT has not done this in years. How can any Vol fan honestly say that Vandy is not more talented than the Vols right now??? They have had a better record than UT the past three seasons???? Talent has more to do with it than you guys are saying.

Once again, your inability to admit that coaching, training, game plans, schemes, etc. have anything to do with a team's performance makes your argument the utter epitome of ExcusaVol silliness.

Yes, Vanderbilt has played better. Yes, they did it with no star, 2 star, and 3 star talent. No, that doesn't mean that the recruiting services were all wrong. It means that their coaches did a much better job with the talent they had than our coaches did.

If you do truly believe that coaching has nothing to do with a team's performance and every team that wins is simply more talented than the team that loses, then why do you even care who our coach is?

 

[bigmac1218]

And it is as it should be.

As for the comparison to UT's situation... it went from bad to worse on the field. You can blame on talent, you can blame on coaching, you can acknowledge it was some of both... but historic lows were set this year. This team was not better than last year in many ways and was worse than the two previous years in most ways.

give me a break we played the hardest schedule in the country this year and beat a tough usc team and should have beat Georgia and killed the teams we were supposed to I think we did well giving the situation. your a negative Nancy the vols will be back on top. I do think butch will get it done just give him time