School Shootings

#51
#51
BowlBrother85 said:
If you don't want to see this as an epidemic, fine. 14 separate incidents since 2007 involving over 300 deaths (including over 50 children) says something very different to me. This is a problem and it's getting worse.
Click to expand...

France alone has 14 incidences since 2007 resulting in 255 dead. And they have about a fifth of our population.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#52
#52
BowlBrother85 said:
The number of separate incidents "is my thing". This problem cannot simply be dismissed as isolated incidents anymore... these mass/spree killings are occurring with more regularity and yes, they have also been much more deadly since 2007. The incidents you have cited were more along the lines of orchestrated terrorist attacks by multiple assailants (not that I'm minimizing the horrific nature of that carnage - I've been speaking more about the problem of the lone lunatic gunman which is very unique to the United States).
Click to expand...

That's because a majority of them are seeking (infamous) notoriety,because the media eats it up all the time,and because of the coverage it inspires potential copycats. And we must not forget social media as well

How the Media Inspires Mass Shooters – Mother Jones
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#53
#53
tumscalcium said:
How?
Click to expand...

A lot of these shooters are losers. People who have been told they want or can’t succeed because they’re a square pegged being forced into our one size fits all socialist education system.

The first step is to offer more options within our existing infrastructure. People continually make the false claim that we need to invest more into CTE (career and technical education) courses. That’s wrong. We need to use the existing infrastructure (tech schools). Give kids a two year voucher to tech school in place of their junior and senior year of high school if they prefer. Make the voucher equal to whatever we would spend educating them. That would eliminate a decent amount of the square pegs we are trying to shove into a round hole.

Make it easier to drop out. States are making it very difficult because schools are ignorantly judged by their graduation rates. If a student gets in legal trouble, judges will often obligate the child to finish high school. Not everyone wants to be there, don’t force them.

Step 3 is to change how we teach. I hated school as a kid because I was bored out of my mind and sitting in a desk in silence while some lady went on about the Bronte sisters for an hour drove me insane. I never lecture my students for more than 10 minutes at a time. I’ll introduce our topic for the day. Show them how to do 1 or 2 examples. Then I have them go to the marker boards that are placed all around my room and work example problems. It gets them up and moving. Also always them the chance to communicate. They’re allowed to talk to each other and even be off topic as long as the volume is reasonable and work is getting done. Then they will return to their desks, and show them a similar problem but more difficult. Then back to the boards. Learning is a social thing, yet students are kept in silence for the majority of class in most schools. The system I use is called classroom 360. It was invented by a prinicipal from Denver. My student growth scores are typically 2.5 standard deviations above the mean, and have been as high as 2.96. No one is meant to sit in a desk all day and listen to other people talk, and it’s a big reason boys are falling further and further behind in school.

The final step is getting quality teachers. Many states already have eliminated or minimized tenure. On top of that most have implemented a variation of a system called EVAAS which judges teachers by ranking students against their peers using percentile scores. If your student took their 7th grade math assement at the end of the year and was ranked in the 40th percentile, the teacher has to maintain that or improve it. If the average student in their class dropped significantly (more than 1 standard deviation) they’re considered to have not meet growth. If it’s within 1 sd, they meet growth. And if it’s above 1 they exceeded growth. We need to tweak the system to account for student absences. So if a student was absence for 45 out of 90 days, the impact on the teacher should be minimal, because they can’t help that. But we also need to hold teachers who underachieve multiple years in a row accountable (termination). On top of that we need to increase pay so that we do get qualified candidates. Most schools struggle to find qualified teachers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 people
#54
#54
BowlBrother85 said:
Even counting all of Europe, they have not had 14 separate mass shootings involving the deaths of 9 or more people since 2007 as the United States has had.

1) Las Vegas 2017 (59 deaths)
2) Orlando, Fla 2016 (49 deaths)
3) Virginia Tech 2007 (33 deaths)
4) Newtown, CT 2012 (27 deaths)
5) Sutherland Springs, TX (26 deaths)
6) South Florida 2018 (17 deaths)
7) San Bernardino, CA 2015 (14 deaths)
8) Binghamton 2009 (13 deaths)
9) Fort Hood 2009 (13 deaths)
10) Washington Navy Yard 2013 (12 deaths)
11) Aurora movie theater shooting 2012 (12 deaths)
12) Geneva County massacre 2009 (10 deaths)
13) Umqua Community College shooting 2015 (9 deaths)
14) Charleston, SC church shooting - Dylann Roof 2015 (9 deaths)

That adds up to 304 deaths in these 14 mass murder shootings.
Click to expand...

Why do you only count shootings? Are other deaths of a lesser value?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#56
#56
Vol8188 said:
A lot of these shooters are losers. People who have been told they want or can’t succeed because they’re a square pegged being forced into our one size fits all socialist education system.

The first step is to offer more options within our existing infrastructure. People continually make the false claim that we need to invest more into CTE (career and technical education) courses. That’s wrong. We need to use the existing infrastructure (tech schools). Give kids a two year voucher to tech school in place of their junior and senior year of high school if they prefer. Make the voucher equal to whatever we would spend educating them. That would eliminate a decent amount of the square pegs we are trying to shove into a round hole.

Make it easier to drop out. States are making it very difficult because schools are ignorantly judged by their graduation rates. If a student gets in legal trouble, judges will often obligate the child to finish high school. Not everyone wants to be there, don’t force them.

Step 3 is to change how we teach. I hated school as a kid because I was bored out of my mind and sitting in a desk in silence while some lady went on about the Bronte sisters for an hour drove me insane. I never lecture my students for more than 10 minutes at a time. I’ll introduce our topic for the day. Show them how to do 1 or 2 examples. Then I have them go to the marker boards that are placed all around my room and work example problems. It gets them up and moving. Also always them the chance to communicate. They’re allowed to talk to each other and even be off topic as long as the volume is reasonable and work is getting done. Then they will return to their desks, and show them a similar problem but more difficult. Then back to the boards. Learning is a social thing, yet students are kept in silence for the majority of class in most schools. The system I use is called classroom 360. It was invented by a prinicipal from Denver. My student growth scores are typically 2.5 standard deviations above the mean, and have been as high as 2.96. No one is meant to sit in a desk all day and listen to other people talk, and it’s a big reason boys are falling further and further behind in school.

The final step is getting quality teachers. Many states already have eliminated or minimized tenure. On top of that most have implemented a variation of a system called EVAAS which judges teachers by ranking students against their peers using percentile scores. If your student took their 7th grade math assement at the end of the year and was ranked in the 40th percentile, the teacher has to maintain that or improve it. If the average student in their class dropped significantly (more than 1 standard deviation) they’re considered to have not meet growth. If it’s within 1 sd, they meet growth. And if it’s above 1 they exceeded growth. We need to tweak the system to account for student absences. So if a student was absence for 45 out of 90 days, the impact on the teacher should be minimal, because they can’t help that. But we also need to hold teachers who underachieve multiple years in a row accountable (termination). On top of that we need to increase pay so that we do get qualified candidates. Most schools struggle to find qualified teachers.
Click to expand...

I like it
 
#57
#57
DancingOutlaw said:
Guns are the only way to kill people.
Click to expand...

They try to present this false narrative that it will decrease homicide rates in the most absurd ways possible.

My favorite is when they list “gun deaths”. “Look we have more gun deaths than country x per capita”. Sure, but how many of those were justifiable acts of self defense?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#58
#58
DancingOutlaw said:
France alone has 14 incidences since 2007 resulting in 255 dead. And they have about a fifth of our population.
Click to expand...

I don't like arguing but here is a list of the last 10 mass killings (as defined by the deaths of 5 or more people) in France. Take note that you have to go all the way back to 1962 to get to #10. Beginning with the most recent as being #1:

1) July 14, 2016 (Nice attack - 86 deaths)
2) November 13, 2015 (Paris attacks - 130 deaths)
3) January 9, 2015 (Paris Porte de Vincennes - 5 deaths)
4) January 7, 2015 (Paris Charlie Hebdo massacre - 12 deaths)
5) March 19, 2002 (Midi-Pyrenees massacre - 7 deaths)
6) March 27, 2002 (Nanterre massacre - 9 deaths)
7) September 24, 1995 (Cuers massacre - 16 deaths)
8) July 12, 1989 (Luxiol massacre - 14 deaths)
9) June 19, 1985 (Ille-et-Vilaine massacre - 7 deaths)
10) February 8, 1962 (The Charonne Metro Station massacre - 9 deaths)
 
#60
#60
BowlBrother85 said:
I don't like arguing but here is a list of the last 10 mass killings (as defined by the deaths of 5 or more people) in France. Take note that you have to go all the way back to 1962 to get to #10. Beginning with the most recent as being #1:

1) July 14, 2016 (Nice attack - 86 deaths)
2) November 13, 2015 (Paris attacks - 130 deaths)
3) January 9, 2015 (Paris Porte de Vincennes - 5 deaths)
4) January 7, 2015 (Paris Charlie Hebdo massacre - 12 deaths)
5) March 19, 2002 (Midi-Pyrenees massacre - 7 deaths)
6) March 27, 2002 (Nanterre massacre - 9 deaths)
7) September 24, 1995 (Cuers massacre - 16 deaths)
8) July 12, 1989 (Luxiol massacre - 14 deaths)
9) June 19, 1985 (Ille-et-Vilaine massacre - 7 deaths)
10) February 8, 1962 (The Charonne Metro Station massacre - 9 deaths)
Click to expand...

France is about a 5th our population size
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#62
#62
BowlBrother85 said:
Because the issue I saw being argued here was guns! Good lord.
Click to expand...

You’re arguing guns. I wouldn’t say it’s the issue the op was arguing.

But are other deaths of a lesser value? Do they not count?

The reasonable way to do this would be look at homicide rates. Do gun laws affect homicide rates? Because if the body count is unchanged, who cares how they died?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#64
#64
Vol8188 said:
A lot of these shooters are losers. People who have been told they want or can’t succeed because they’re a square pegged being forced into our one size fits all socialist education system.

The first step is to offer more options within our existing infrastructure. People continually make the false claim that we need to invest more into CTE (career and technical education) courses. That’s wrong. We need to use the existing infrastructure (tech schools). Give kids a two year voucher to tech school in place of their junior and senior year of high school if they prefer. Make the voucher equal to whatever we would spend educating them. That would eliminate a decent amount of the square pegs we are trying to shove into a round hole.

Make it easier to drop out. States are making it very difficult because schools are ignorantly judged by their graduation rates. If a student gets in legal trouble, judges will often obligate the child to finish high school. Not everyone wants to be there, don’t force them.

Step 3 is to change how we teach. I hated school as a kid because I was bored out of my mind and sitting in a desk in silence while some lady went on about the Bronte sisters for an hour drove me insane. I never lecture my students for more than 10 minutes at a time. I’ll introduce our topic for the day. Show them how to do 1 or 2 examples. Then I have them go to the marker boards that are placed all around my room and work example problems. It gets them up and moving. Also always them the chance to communicate. They’re allowed to talk to each other and even be off topic as long as the volume is reasonable and work is getting done. Then they will return to their desks, and show them a similar problem but more difficult. Then back to the boards. Learning is a social thing, yet students are kept in silence for the majority of class in most schools. The system I use is called classroom 360. It was invented by a prinicipal from Denver. My student growth scores are typically 2.5 standard deviations above the mean, and have been as high as 2.96. No one is meant to sit in a desk all day and listen to other people talk, and it’s a big reason boys are falling further and further behind in school.

The final step is getting quality teachers. Many states already have eliminated or minimized tenure. On top of that most have implemented a variation of a system called EVAAS which judges teachers by ranking students against their peers using percentile scores. If your student took their 7th grade math assement at the end of the year and was ranked in the 40th percentile, the teacher has to maintain that or improve it. If the average student in their class dropped significantly (more than 1 standard deviation) they’re considered to have not meet growth. If it’s within 1 sd, they meet growth. And if it’s above 1 they exceeded growth. We need to tweak the system to account for student absences. So if a student was absence for 45 out of 90 days, the impact on the teacher should be minimal, because they can’t help that. But we also need to hold teachers who underachieve multiple years in a row accountable (termination). On top of that we need to increase pay so that we do get qualified candidates. Most schools struggle to find qualified teachers.
Click to expand...

I like a lot of this. Need to ensure that teachers are not unfairly held accountable for what is out of their control, though. Some kids fail not because of the teachers, but because of poor parental support. My wife saw this all too often, when she was teaching. Parents who don't value education tend to pass that on to their kids, and even the best teachers have a difficult time breaking them out of it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#65
#65
Vol8188 said:
You’re arguing guns. I wouldn’t say it’s the issue the op was arguing.

But are other deaths of a lesser value? Do they not count?

The reasonable way to do this would be look at homicide rates. Do gun laws affect homicide rates? Because if the body count is unchanged, who cares how they died?
Click to expand...

I haven't argued anything. I have only posted facts related to mass/spree shootings and that they are occurring at a more frequent rate in the United States and they have become more deadly since 2007.
 
#66
#66
Vol_Doc said:
I like a lot of this. Need to ensure that teachers are not unfairly held accountable for what is out of their control, though. Some kids fail not because of the teachers, but because of poor parental support. My wife saw this all too often, when she was teaching. Parents who don't value education tend to pass that on to their kids, and even the best teachers have a difficult time breaking them out of it.
Click to expand...

That’s why I mentioned factoring in attendance. But if a kid is failing because of poor parenting, that should be reflected in their previous test scores. So what I’m saying is base everything on the students previous year end of year test.

I think many of those parents who don’t value education though, would really get on board with the tech school voucher program
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#67
#67
BowlBrother85 said:
I haven't argued anything. I have only posted facts related to mass/spree shootings and that they are occurring at a more frequent rate in the United States and they have become more deadly since 2007.
Click to expand...

You previously admitted that you were attempting to argue about guns. Now you’re not arguing? Are you just trolling?

As to the rest of your post, limiting shootings only matters if it also limits homicide rates.
 
#68
#68
Vol8188 said:
You previously admitted that you were attempting to argue about guns. Now you’re not arguing? Are you just trolling?

As to the rest of your post, limiting shootings only matters if it also limits homicide rates.
Click to expand...

I never said that I was arguing about guns. I'm only posting facts. I said the issue which I saw being argued here was over guns and so, my posts were related to mass/spree shootings which makes sense as that is what happened at the high school in south Florida.
 
#70
#70
BowlBrother85 said:
I never said that I was arguing about guns. I'm only posting facts. I said the issue which I saw being argued here was over guns and so, my posts were related to mass/spree shootings which makes sense as that is what happened at the high school in south Florida.
Click to expand...

Intentionally misleading facts
 
#71
#71
Vol8188 said:
So the issue was being argued, but you weren’t participating?
Click to expand...

In threads such as this, I just stick to facts. I have said that mass/spree shootings are becoming more frequent in the United States and more deadly in nature since 2007 and I've supported that belief with the incidents in question. And the problem of school shootings in particular does seem to be unique to the United States. There have been 239 school shootings in the U.S. since Columbine in 1999. Fact.
 
#72
#72
BowlBrother85 said:
In threads such as this, I just stick to facts. I have said that mass/spree shootings are becoming more frequent in the United States and more deadly in nature since 2007 and I've supported that belief with the incidents in question. And the problem of school shootings in particular does seem to be unique to the United States. There have been 239 school shootings in the U.S. since Columbine in 1999. Fact.
Click to expand...

You’re presenting intentionally misleading facts and then attempting to claim neutrality? It’s pathetic really. If you want to have an actual debate, we can. But you’d have to cut the disingenuous bs first
 
#73
#73
Vol8188 said:
You’re presenting intentionally misleading facts and then attempting to claim neutrality? It’s pathetic really. If you want to have an actual debate, we can. But you’d have to cut the disingenuous bs first
Click to expand...

What is misleading? 239 school shootings in 19 years? That's basically 1 per month.
 
#74
#74
BowlBrother85 said:
I don't like arguing but here is a list of the last 10 mass killings (as defined by the deaths of 5 or more people) in France. Take note that you have to go all the way back to 1962 to get to #10. Beginning with the most recent as being #1:

1) July 14, 2016 (Nice attack - 86 deaths)
2) November 13, 2015 (Paris attacks - 130 deaths)
3) January 9, 2015 (Paris Porte de Vincennes - 5 deaths)
4) January 7, 2015 (Paris Charlie Hebdo massacre - 12 deaths)
5) March 19, 2002 (Midi-Pyrenees massacre - 7 deaths)
6) March 27, 2002 (Nanterre massacre - 9 deaths)
7) September 24, 1995 (Cuers massacre - 16 deaths)
8) July 12, 1989 (Luxiol massacre - 14 deaths)
9) June 19, 1985 (Ille-et-Vilaine massacre - 7 deaths)
10) February 8, 1962 (The Charonne Metro Station massacre - 9 deaths)
Click to expand...

Insanely and intentionally misleading.
 
#75
#75
Vol8188 said:
That’s why I mentioned factoring in attendance. But if a kid is failing because of poor parenting, that should be reflected in their previous test scores. So what I’m saying is base everything on the students previous year end of year test.

I think many of those parents who don’t value education though, would really get on board with the tech school voucher program
Click to expand...

You may be correct on that. And if they don't, the kids may. If you don't mind me asking, what grade level(s) do you teach, and what's your school environment (e.g., rural, suburban, inner city) and student makeup (e.g., racial, socioeconomic)?
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top