Second round of stimulus; gamesmanship

#55
#55
lawgator1 said:
So tomorrow is the self-imposed deadline. Very interesting political situation.

Dems want $600 unemployment benefit to continue. Seems the WH was willing to go along with that for awhile, but then changed their position because the Senate wanted it to be $200, then to 70% wage replacement. Don't know how they would manage to calculate that - I saw some commentary the states would have to do it. That's a nightmare here in Florida as our system broke down early on in the virus just processing regular claims. Also negotiating points about liability, foreclosure moratorium, etc.

Trump has threatened to take executive action if Congress cannot get it done. Some thinking that it is a negotiating ploy as it is doubtful he has the authority to do so. I imagine some are hopeful that scenario occurs so he can claim credit for doing what Congress could not. On the flip side, I doubt GOPers at risk are a fan of looking inept and needing Trump to save the day.

A lot of moving parts to this one.
Click to expand...

Trump's EO power is interesting for the following reason: They're looking at spending (i.e. "repurposing") funds that have already been approved by Congress in the CARES Act. This would potentially put us in the scenario of how Trump circumvented Congressional purse power with The Wall. We all know how divisive that turned out.

Ultimately - under Trump - we're becoming a Welfare State.

The $600/wk is insane. Handcuffing landlords also insane. We're gonna bankrupt our f-ing country by paying people to NOT work.

SOLUTION: A bipartisan infrastructure bill of IMMENSE proportions. We've got sh*tty roads, bridges, you name it - that need replacement. Instead of paying people unemployment (to do NOTHING), hire them with government-backed infrastructure money.

People can social distance building a highway. Or a bridge. Or most any of these types of outdoor projects.

Trump and the Democrats need to stop promoting a Welfare State, and instead get back to how our country was built: WORK!
 
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#56
#56
MontyPython said:
Trump's EO power is interesting for the following reason: They're looking at spending (i.e. "repurposing") funds that have already been approved by Congress in the CARES Act. This would potentially put us in the scenario of how Trump circumvented Congressional purse power with The Wall. We all know how divisive that turned out.

Ultimately - under Trump - we're becoming a Welfare State.

The $600/wk is insane. Handcuffing landlords also insane. We're gonna bankrupt our f-ing country by paying people to NOT work.

SOLUTION: A bipartisan infrastructure bill of IMMENSE proportions. We've got sh*tty roads, bridges, you name it - that need replacement. Instead of paying people unemployment (to do NOTHING), hire them with government-backed infrastructure money.

People can social distance building a highway. Or a bridge. Or most any of these types of outdoor projects.

Trump and the Democrats need to stop promoting a Welfare State, and instead get back to how our country was built: WORK!
Click to expand...
Uh. You clearly have never been on a jobsite before.

They might be safe working outside, but most wont socially distance.

Also it takes a good bit of skill/training to get out there and do the shovel ready jobs.

Futher, with most city halls shut down, permitting is a huge pain.

Further further, if you want to actually fix the road you arent just repaving it. You are doing storm water improvements, soil improvements, what about road embankments, what about any upgrades that also need to happen at the same time?

It's not simple.
 
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#58
#58
TN Ribs said:
The Tea Party caucus of the GOP went ballistic when Obama was running deficits, that's all they ever talked about. They constantly fear-mongered about the debt our children and grandchildren would inherit but now it's pretty much crickets when the estimated deficit this fiscal year is $ 3.7 Trillion.
Click to expand...


I think under the circumstances of both an increase in the debt load long term was necessary to preserve the economy short term. Bush/Obama had to steady the boat after the housing crash. Trump has to manage the economic impact of Covid.

Certainly, it would be nice if we came up with a plan at the time, or shortly after, to pay it down. Just give the markets and the world some sense that it is being dealt with. But that seems harder than taking on the debt in the first place.
 
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#59
#59
MontyPython said:
Trump's EO power is interesting for the following reason: They're looking at spending (i.e. "repurposing") funds that have already been approved by Congress in the CARES Act. This would potentially put us in the scenario of how Trump circumvented Congressional purse power with The Wall. We all know how divisive that turned out.

Ultimately - under Trump - we're becoming a Welfare State.

The $600/wk is insane. Handcuffing landlords also insane. We're gonna bankrupt our f-ing country by paying people to NOT work.

SOLUTION: A bipartisan infrastructure bill of IMMENSE proportions. We've got sh*tty roads, bridges, you name it - that need replacement. Instead of paying people unemployment (to do NOTHING), hire them with government-backed infrastructure money.

People can social distance building a highway. Or a bridge. Or most any of these types of outdoor projects.

Trump and the Democrats need to stop promoting a Welfare State, and instead get back to how our country was built: WORK!
Click to expand...

Look at some of the employment ad websites and you will see road builders and ext ads for help wanted. Those jobs are out there now and people aren't filling them.
 
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#60
#60
lawgator1 said:
I think under the circumstances of both an increase in the debt load long term was necessary to preserve the economy short term. Bush/Obama had to steady the boat after the housing crash. Trump has to manage the economic impact of Covid.

Certainly, it would be nice if we came up with a plan at the time, or shortly after, to pay it down. Just give the markets and the world some sense that it is being dealt with. But that seems harder than taking on the debt in the first place.
Click to expand...
As you pointed out. It's not DCs SOP to fix problems. They apply temporary band aids that let's things get worse in the long run.

All because they want to play politics.
 
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#61
#61
LouderVol said:
Uh. You clearly have never been on a jobsite before.

They might be safe working outside, but most wont socially distance.

Also it takes a good bit of skill/training to get out there and do the shovel ready jobs.

Futher, with most city halls shut down, permitting is a huge pain.

Further further, if you want to actually fix the road you arent just repaving it. You are doing storm water improvements, soil improvements, what about road embankments, what about any upgrades that also need to happen at the same time?

It's not simple.
Click to expand...

Heh. I owned a construction firm previously. So, I get it.

Where there's a will, there's a way. Anything beats a handout to do nothing.
 
#64
#64
LouderVol said:
That money just ends up in some fst cats pocket and very little work ever gets done.
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The .gov would have to eliminate mountains of regulation to fast track infrastructure construction. Any money they designate today for building a road won't be spent laying the first truckload of asphalt for 3-5 years.
 
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#65
#65
hog88 said:
The .gov would have to eliminate mountains of regulation to fast track infrastructure construction. Any money they designate today for building a road won't be spent laying the first truckload of asphalt for 3-5 years.
Click to expand...
And by that point the money has been spent on other things...
 
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#67
#67
hog88 said:
The .gov would have to eliminate mountains of regulation to fast track infrastructure construction. Any money they designate today for building a road won't be spent laying the first truckload of asphalt for 3-5 years.
Click to expand...
For anyone that lives in Knox or Blount counties, they have been "rebuilding" Alcoa highway now for about 20 years. It seems like they just move dirt from one place to another and back again.
 
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#69
#69
lawgator1 said:
So tomorrow is the self-imposed deadline. Very interesting political situation.

Dems want $600 unemployment benefit to continue. Seems the WH was willing to go along with that for awhile, but then changed their position because the Senate wanted it to be $200, then to 70% wage replacement. Don't know how they would manage to calculate that - I saw some commentary the states would have to do it. That's a nightmare here in Florida as our system broke down early on in the virus just processing regular claims. Also negotiating points about liability, foreclosure moratorium, etc.

Trump has threatened to take executive action if Congress cannot get it done. Some thinking that it is a negotiating ploy as it is doubtful he has the authority to do so. I imagine some are hopeful that scenario occurs so he can claim credit for doing what Congress could not. On the flip side, I doubt GOPers at risk are a fan of looking inept and needing Trump to save the day.

A lot of moving parts to this one.
Click to expand...
I think part of the concern is that we are subsidizing the unrest and riots. That's a valid concern, plus essential employees are working and get nothing but exposure while non-essential workers currently furloughed or laid off get extra money in many cases.
 
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#70
#70
VolStrom said:
For anyone that lives in Knox or Blount counties, they have been "rebuilding" Alcoa highway now for about 20 years. It seems like they just move dirt from one place to another and back again.
Click to expand...
That was 440 in Nashville until recently. Some genius, if assume a politician with ties to the concrete lobby decided to pave the interstate in concrete which would just degrade every winter when salt was applied. Then head up in the summer and buckle. Constant state of repair, every year since and repeat.

It looks great now though.
 
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#71
#71
TN Ribs said:
The Tea Party caucus of the GOP went ballistic when Obama was running deficits, that's all they ever talked about. They constantly fear-mongered about the debt our children and grandchildren would inherit but now it's pretty much crickets when the estimated deficit this fiscal year is $ 3.7 Trillion.
Click to expand...

It doesnt matter at this point. We'll never bring the deficit down. Just give us a stimulus check. Ill pay any remaining bills off and save the rest. Ill spend less when they raise my taxes.
 
#72
#72
happy-go_vol said:
It doesnt matter at this point. We'll never bring the deficit down. Just give us a stimulus check. Ill pay any remaining bills off and save the rest. Ill spend less when they raise my taxes.
Click to expand...
Hey I like mailbox money, 100% of my income comes from a pension, SS and income from my investments so I might as well let uncle sam add a few hundred more to the pile so I can support the economy and blow it on something I don't need.
 
#73
#73
LouderVol said:
Uh. You clearly have never been on a jobsite before.

They might be safe working outside, but most wont socially distance.

Also it takes a good bit of skill/training to get out there and do the shovel ready jobs.

Futher, with most city halls shut down, permitting is a huge pain.

Further further, if you want to actually fix the road you arent just repaving it. You are doing storm water improvements, soil improvements, what about road embankments, what about any upgrades that also need to happen at the same time?

It's not simple.
Click to expand...
What I’ve noticed in our neighborhood is not so much close contact while working, but go home time 4-8 guys are piling in a car or van to drive back to wherever they live. So they’re spending a couple hours a day crammed in a van with zero masks.
 
#74
#74
DancingOutlaw said:
What I’ve noticed in our neighborhood is not so much close contact while working, but go home time 4-8 guys are piling in a car or van to drive back to wherever they live. So they’re spending a couple hours a day crammed in a van with zero masks.
Click to expand...
Must not be latinos, around me they pack 5 in a single row. If a door popped open 3 would fall out from compressive forces.
 
#75
#75
hog88 said:
None of them will answer.
Click to expand...

If you can't see the destruction that Trump's lies, ambivalence and lack of a national plan have caused than you are simply not paying attention. To think otherwise is intellectually dishonest.
 
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