Senate passes stem cell bill

[GAVol]

That's why elections are important.

 

[volinbham]

We as a society kill thousands of "live" things every day: animals, trees, various fruits and vegetables and for things quite less noble than research.

Except for new borns ---- dead people. Where do you draw the line?

 

[OWB]

Well, I'm out of this thread. I'm taking things a little too personally when it comes to this subject for reasons I won't get in to.

All I know is that when real, tangible, oxygen breathing people are dying and something like this could save a life or at least make it a little more comfortable into transition, I'll take stem cell research any day.

eace:

 

[volmanjr]

We could take this debate to the other end of the life cycle, with people who are brain dead and being kept alive by a machine....is that really living?

 

[volmanjr]

Except for new borns

and again Where does life begin?

 

[volinbham]

and again Where does life begin?

Yep, that's the crux of it for me.

 

[therealUT]

We could take this debate to the other end of the life cycle, with people who are brain dead and being kept alive by a machine....is that really living?

So, if a Doctor can guarantee you that in 9 months or less, that person will come out of their vegetative state, you would pull the plug?

Also, you could make this debate concerning severly mentally handicapped persons...is that really living? Why not farm them out?

Someone said earlier to prove that an unborn baby is a person. That baby has 23 chromosones, will have a beating heart within 3 weeks of conception, has arms, legs, eyes, a nose, and a brain capable of rational thought.

It is ironic that in this country, even dead people have the right to keep their organs if they so wish. Yet, unborn babies do not even have the right to exist without another persons consent.

 

[volmanjr]

So, if a Doctor can guarantee you that in 9 months or less, that person will come out of their vegetative state, you would pull the plug?

When do Dr's ever make that guarantee?

Also, you could make this debate concerning severly mentally handicapped persons...is that really living? Why not farm them out?

another stretch

Someone said earlier to prove that an unborn baby is a person. That baby has 23 chromosones, will have a beating heart within 3 weeks of conception, has arms, legs, eyes, a nose, and a brain capable of rational thought.

The stem cells refered to do not have a heart beat or arms, legs, eyes, a nose, or a brain .

 

[volmanjr]

Yet, unborn babies do not even have the right to exist without another persons consent.

What about the babies who are born (without their consent) into abusive homes, or to mother's who abandon them?

 

[volmanjr]

Another good point was brought up earlier, stems cells don't have to come from embryo's are you against all stem cell research or just using embryos?

 

[orange+white=heaven]

Research = Discovery
Discovery = Progress

Stem cells are the key to discovery. This research should move forward.
With forward thinking and statesmanship, legislation can be enacted to ensure that the research can continue with reasonable checks and balances.
This does not, and should not, have to devolve into a battle on the level of abortion in our country.

 

[Orange-Neck]

Call me crazy, but I just can't equate a single cell to a living, thinking human. I'm all for stem cell research. We will be behind many other countries if we don't move foward in these fields.

 

[volinbham]

The embryo from which stem cells are harvested is a multi-cell organism. That may not change any minds but there is a difference between stem cells and the source (in this case viable embryos). Further, embryos are not single cell organisms.

 

[volinbham]

I'm not against stem cell research per se but rather I'm not completely comfortable with the notion of intentionally creating human life to harvest items for research.

 

[OrangeEmpire]

I'm not against stem cell research per se but rather I'm not completely comfortable with the notion of intentionally creating human life to harvest items for research.

Kind of reminds you of the Star Trek The Next Generation episode about the question of whether Data was sentient or not. Was he the property of Star Fleet or not?

In the end the judge ruled that in the end we, as humans, could manipulate the creation process and if we wanted, creat a race of nothing more than slaves to our will.............................................

Kind of makes you think we talking about stem cell research................ :fool: :dunno: :blink:

 

[therealUT]

When do Dr's ever make that guarantee?

Obviously you are having a tough time of grasping the logic behind the pro-life argument.

 

[hohenfelsvol]

Don't agree with Bush on this one but respect his position.

 

[orange+white=heaven]

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Bush readied the first veto of his presidency Wednesday to stop legislation easing limits on federal funding for embryonic stem-cell research.
Bush planned to sign a veto message Wednesday afternoon without any ceremony or photographers to record the historic moment. "He doesn't feel it's appropriate," White House spokesman Tony Snow said.

Imagine my surprise.

 

[OWB]

Imagine my surprise.

Wonder what the message said...

"I just hope I don't get anything that stem cell research could have cured"....???

 

[volinbham]

Wonder what the message said...

"I just hope I don't get anything that stem cell research could have cured"....???

embryonic stemcell :hi:

 

[volmanjr]

Obviously you are having a tough time of grasping the logic behind the pro-life argument.

No trouble with the logic just don't totally agree with it, my point is that your example will never happen and that a brain dead person is just that, dead (IMO). I hope that I never have to make the decision wether or not to pull the the plug, and I hope you don't either. As for me I have instructed my family to not allow my life to be carried on by a machine so they won't have to make that call.

 

[therealUT]

No trouble with the logic just don't totally agree with it, my point is that your example will never happen and that a brain dead person is just that, dead (IMO). I hope that I never have to make the decision wether or not to pull the the plug, and I hope you don't either. As for me I have instructed my family to not allow my life to be carried on by a machine so they won't have to make that call.

You have made that choice. To deny any person, whether born or unborn, that choice without due process of law is wrong.

 

[MyBloodRunnethOrange]

Prove to me that an unborn baby is not a person. Upon proving this, I might listen to your point.

First of all, the argument is not about unborn babies, but about embryos created in a lab. Do you seriously think that that embryo is going to mature into a person without a surrogate mother.

As far as unborn babies go, when the majority of the scientific community comes to the conclusion that a fetus is the same thing as a human being, then I might listen to your point.

So, if a Doctor can guarantee you that in 9 months or less, that person will come out of their vegetative state, you would pull the plug?

You obviously don't understand the pro choice viewpoint, so you set up a straw man argument to make your point.

 

[therealUT]

First of all, the argument is not about unborn babies, but about embryos created in a lab. Do you seriously think that that embryo is going to mature into a person without a surrogate mother.

As far as unborn babies go, when the majority of the scientific community comes to the conclusion that a fetus is the same thing as a human being, then I might listen to your point.


You obviously don't understand the pro choice viewpoint, so you set up a straw man argument to make your point.

An embryo is an unborn baby. All it needs is incubation (whether in the womb or in an incubator.)

I understand the argument from pro choice, as I also understand the history of the pro choice movement. I would love to hear an argument from the pro choice side in which the logic they use to destroy an unborn baby cannot be applied to human beings in other situations.

 

[volmanjr]

An embryo is an unborn baby

What about the egg and the sperm? Can't make an embryo (naturally)without both, so is it wrong to use them in reproductive/fertility research?